HDR Discussion Thread

[Mierzwiak]

Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob

Disney mapping down to 1000 nits could be one of the reasons for no DV on disc.

Endgame has many moments over 1000 nits and it has no DV on UHD.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Disney re-release their content advertising 12 bit 4000 nit masters.

They can't properly advertise UHDs and you want them to be so specific about technical details most people don't even understand?

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob

Disney mapping down to 1000 nits could be one of the reasons for no DV on disc. I wouldn't be surprised to see Disney re-release their content advertising 12 bit 4000 nit masters.

Most or all (if I'm not mistaken) DV disc ignore YCbCr for a better color model.

Dolby has been petitioning for ICtCp chroma on disc and other media, but I only think it's happened on some DV streams via Netflix.

[DisplayCalNoob]

Originally Posted by Mierzwiak

Endgame has many moments over 1000 nits and it has no DV on UHD.

They can't properly advertise UHDs and you want them to be so specific about technical details most people don't even understand?

Its not what I want, I don't expect them to be specific with numbers, marketing will handle what the packaging will say.

Endgame was authored with a 4000 nit container.

[DisplayCalNoob]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

Dolby has been petitioning for ICtCp chroma on disc and other media, but I only think it's happened on some DV streams via Netflix.

All Profile 5 streams use the ICtCp model. Netflix, Vudu, ATV 4K.

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob

I re-read the white paper.

On disc authoring.

It states some studios choose to use mapping down to 1000 nits from the 4000 nit Dolby Vision master, so that no or less tone mapping has to be performed on the consumer side.

Yes, but SURELY that doesn't mean "the base layer is 1000 nits, and the Enhancement layer is 4000 nits". That would not work and is my point.

It just means the original source, which they decided not to use, was 4000 nits, and it was down-sampled to 1000 nits as an initial process. That interim 1000 nit version is then the one used to create the disc, with the base layer containing the first 10 bits and the Enhancement layer containing the other 2 bits.

If they choose to use mapping down to 1000 nits, because they are worried about consumer TVs tone-mapping - which means they have no faith in DV's tone-mapping abilities - that's a separate decision to whether or not they use a full 12bit encode using a FEL, or a cheap nasty 10bit encode with a MEL.

Using MEL means that the 12 bit master data is not included, which we already knew.

Agreed.

So
MEL 4000 nit master with 1000 nit map no 12 bit DV master data
and FEL 12 bit 4000 nit master with 1000 nit map.

Ok. Is that from the WP (assume it isn't from what you say next!)?
Also, surely:
"or FEL 12 bit 4000 nit master without a 1000 nit map.
or FEL 12 bit 1000 nit master without a 1000 nit map."

The portion below is from the white paper.

FEL Better video quality
Can recreate the 12-bit signal*
Can recreate the 4000-nit signal from the
1000-nit base layer
Longer processing time to produce and
more disc space required

Thanks for the quote. The whole concept that the base layer "must" be or "is always" 1000 nits is completely alien and new to me, and doesn't really make sense. I have loads of 4000 nit HDR10 discs, no Enhancement Layer in sight. The vast majority of my discs are HDR10-only as it is.

[avs commenter]

Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob

All Profile 5 streams use the ICtCp model. Netflix, Vudu, ATV 4K.

What about Disney + and Movies Anywhere?

[DisplayCalNoob]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

Yes, but SURELY that doesn't mean "the base layer is 1000 nits, and the Enhancement layer is 4000 nits". That would not work and is my point.

It just means the original source, which they decided not to use, was 4000 nits, and it was down-sampled to 1000 nits as an initial process. That interim 1000 nit version is then the one used to create the disc, with the base layer containing the first 10 bits and the Enhancement layer containing the other 2 bits.

If they choose to use mapping down to 1000 nits, because they are worried about consumer TVs tone-mapping - which means they have no faith in DV's tone-mapping abilities - that's a separate decision to whether or not they use a full 12bit encode using a FEL, or a cheap nasty 10bit encode with a MEL.



Agreed.



Ok. Is that from the WP (assume it isn't from what you say next!)?
Also, surely:
"or FEL 12 bit 4000 nit master without a 1000 nit map.
or FEL 12 bit 1000 nit master without a 1000 nit map."



Thanks for the quote. The whole concept that the base layer "must" be or "is always" 1000 nits is completely alien and new to me, and doesn't really make sense. I have loads of 4000 nit HDR10 discs, no Enhancement Layer in sight. The vast majority of my discs are HDR10-only as it is.

You can have a 4000 nit base layer, but it will be MEL. Studios are not going to use FEL, unless they require 12 bit for future proofing and there's obvious banding on a test consumer display.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

12 bit pixel depth should never have been optional on the BDA specs, it should have been mandated from the beginning given HDR grading, which requires higher than 10 bits as a threshold. Make something optional and the studios will usually go with the lowest level of quality.

Well it was examined in the respective study group VPSG for the BDA (as well as signal comparison of 10 vs 12bit HDR PQ peak 10,000nit with regards to wide color gamuts XYZ vs. BT.2020) but 12bit didn’t get the votes from the consumer electronics and chip manufacturers because they felt it would be cost prohibitive for them to implement.

[Lee A Stewart]

The building blocks of the Fusion Max Outdoor Series of turn-key LED solutions is comprised of front-serviceable 2.9mm and 3.9mm LEDs. The LEDs comes standard with 4,500 nits brightness, 14-bit processing, IP65 rating, 100k hours rating, 160 wide viewing angles, pedestal, or wall mountable framing accessories and a no-hassle 5-year onsite parts and labor warranty. In early Q4 2020, Primeview will be releasing UHD 4K versions of FusionMAX for Outdoors.

https://displaydaily.com/article/pre...c-applications

[Lee A Stewart]

Samsung Expands HDR10+ Ecosystem With Wider Content Offering

Samsung Electronics is further expanding its HDR10+ streaming content offering with the addition of Google Play Movies to the services that support its next-generation picture-quality technology. Google Play Movies, the video streaming service operated by Google, started to support HDR10+ content in July this year. The HDR10+ service is now available on Samsung Smart TV in 117 countries including North America, Europe and Korea.

Users can now enjoy high-resolution HDR10+ 4K HDR content on the Google Play Movies, with numerous HDR10+ titles available such as Joker, Aquaman, Wonder Woman, Shazam!, and Crazy Rich Asians. Google Play Movies plans to support HDR10+ technology on other additional platforms in the future as well.

https://displaydaily.com/article/pre...ntent-offering

[Lee A Stewart]

Fast Broadband From Orbit? New Data Says SpaceX Can Do It

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/comp...18hbfB#image=1

[Lee A Stewart]

Large-sized panel TV prices projected to continue sharp rise

Research from display technology specialist TrendForce has found that TV panel prices have been maintaining their upswing in August, with 55-inch panels and 32-inch panels each registering price hikes of about 10%.

https://www.rapidtvnews.com/20200821...#ixzz6VkUl1W3N

[fighthefutureofhd]

This may not be the right place to ask this, but I don't know where else to go. Is wide color gamut essential to getting a good picture quality. I ask because I am looking at getting a 75 inch TV and found some at or under $1,000. From both no name brands such as Hisense and name brands such as LG. I want to be sure before getting the TV, as I don't want to get a new tv just for the extra 10 inches. I currently have an LG 65 inch OLED tv, so upgrading for the inches isn't really much of an upgrade if the picture isn't much better. Thanks in advance for any help.

[sapiendut]

Coming from OLED, I think you’ll cry if you “upgrade” to a $1K LCD panel.

[Waboman]

Originally Posted by fighthefutureofhd

This may not be the right place to ask this, but I don't know where else to go. Is wide color gamut essential to getting a good picture quality. I ask because I am looking at getting a 75 inch TV and found some at or under $1,000. From both no name brands such as Hisense and name brands such as LG. I want to be sure before getting the TV, as I don't want to get a new tv just for the extra 10 inches. I currently have an LG 65 inch OLED tv, so upgrading for the inches isn't really much of an upgrade if the picture isn't much better. Thanks in advance for any help.

As I keep telling my wife, size doesn't matter. It's the quality that counts. Now in most cases, especially in tv's, size does matter. In your case tho, I'd stick with the oled. You'll feel like you got kicked in the jimmy if you replace it for an albeit bigger, but lesser quality, $1K lcd.

[Scottishguy]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dvyu...ature=youtu.be

[Lee A Stewart]

Sony, Panasonic potential customers for Samsung's QD-OLED TV panels

Samsung Display, the conglomerate's display panel manufacturing arm, has invested billions in QD-type displays, including QD-OLED, which is a new type of OLED panel. Mass production of QD-OLED could start as early as the third quarter of 2021, according to market research firm Omdia (formerly IHS Markit).

Sony and Panasonic are amongst the potential customers for QD-OLED TV panels, according to the report.

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1598342712

[fighthefutureofhd]

Originally Posted by Waboman

As I keep telling my wife, size doesn't matter. It's the quality that counts. Now in most cases, especially in tv's, size does matter. In your case tho, I'd stick with the oled. You'll feel like you got kicked in the jimmy if you replace it for an albeit bigger, but lesser quality, $1K lcd.

I completely agree. However, I cannot afford an OLED tv at this time. I managed to luck out with getting an OLED tv the last time. In the end though, I paid full OLED prices even though I got a tremendous deal. My fault though. This time I have to play it conservative. I'm not getting rid of the OLED tv though. It's going in my sunroom.

[teddyballgame]

Originally Posted by fighthefutureofhd

This time I have to play it conservative. I'm not getting rid of the OLED tv though. It's going in my sunroom.

Hmm, that might not be a good fit. OLEDs don't appreciate UV and heat. Also it might have trouble competing with ambient light during the day which could make users crank the brightness...not good for lifespan and increasing risk of burn in. Just some things to consider. Good luck

[fighthefutureofhd]

Thanks for the warning. I might move it in to my bedroom then. Though my sunroom is not a typical sunroom, as it's built into the house. So it's got walls (the walls were painted) and windows. It can get hot in there, but it's not excessive unless the a/c is out.