James Bond: The Ultimate Collection (1962-2012) + Volume Collections

[Man From Hammer]

Originally Posted by Ruemorgue10

Moonraker: A madman steals space shuttles to transport a master race of humans to his space ark then plans to exterminate the human race back on Earth with plans to create his own utopian empire

The Spy Who Loved Me: A madman steals nuclear subs with plans to irradiate the world and create his own utopian empire underwater.

You Only Live Twice: A madman steals space capsules to provoke war that would lead to world annihilation.

You don't see any similarities?

Yes I suppose that element of the stories in TSWLM and Moonraker are similar although with Moonraker its not revealed until near the end whereas the stolen vehicles plot is there from the beginning in Spy and YOLT - but I don't agree that YOLT is similar from that story element. In Spy and Moonraker the intention is to wipe out life on earth. In YOLT the intention is for a foreign power to take control assuming Russia and the US wipe each other out. The entire point of the YOLT plot would be pointless if everybody was wiped out.

But if instigating a war between the US and USSR was used as a comparison you'd need to include Diamonds Are Forever and others where the villains aim is such a conflict

[Lyle_JP]

Originally Posted by Rocklandsboy

Tomorrow Never Dies isn't far off that plot either. Dastardly no-gooder creating a war between two superpowers for his own nefarious ends.

I think TND has a lot more in common with Goldfinger or AVTAK than YOLT, TSWLM or Moonraker. The latter three are all about the superpowers wiping each other out so that a new world order could emerge. The villian in TND just wants to cash in big time on a crisis of his own creation, and doesn't actually care how his manufactured war plays out.

Originally Posted by Man From Hammer

To be fair, Guy Hamilton was assigned to direct Spy but by the time the legal wrangles created by the financial woes of Saltzman and yet another lawsuit from Kevin McClory (who seemed to believe the delusion that he owned any underwater Bond adventure) had been sorted the picture had been delayed by over a year and Hamilton dropped out.

My understanding is different. McClory sued because he was under the impression that he owned the rights to any original stories involving Blofeld or S.P.E.C.T.R.E. since both were introduced in the novel Thunderball. Blofeld was the original villain of TSWLM and that had to be changed to prevent the film from becoming mired in legal hell.

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by Lyle_JP

My understanding is different. McClory sued because he was under the impression that he owned the rights to any original stories involving Blofeld or S.P.E.C.T.R.E. since both were introduced in the novel Thunderball. Blofeld was the original villain of TSWLM and that had to be changed to prevent the film from becoming mired in legal hell.

The way I've always understood it is this: McClory announced plans to produce a movie called James Bond of the Secret Service, which he hoped would star Roger Moore as Bond and Sean Connery as M or some other supporting character, revealing some really ambitious plot ideas in the process. Eon threatened legal action because these plot ideas diverged quite a bit from the storyline of Thunderball, which is all he had the rights to. As a result, McClory countered by threatening action if they used Blofeld or SPECTRE in any of their future productions including The Spy Who Loved Me because they had originally been introduced in Thunderball and the other two novels in which they appear (YOLT and OHMSS) had already been filmed.

That being said, considering that McClory at one point tried to get a piece of the Bond pie by claiming that the whole idea of producing a James Bond movie was his to begin with, I wouldn't put it past him to try to claim that the concept of a Bond movie set underwater was his to own as well.

[ArchiTech]

Originally Posted by Verisimilitude1984

I'm interested to know what everyone feels are the best Bond main theme songs (lyrical).

I like K.D. Lang's 'Surrender' but it didn't make the cut as the main theme sadly and I like Eric Serra's 'The Experience of Love' but that's the end credits of Goldeneye. I also like Joss Stone's 'Bloodstone' song a lot from the videogame, but it's not from a film!

So many great songs, but here's mine as of today:

1.You Only Live Twice - Nancy Sinatra
2.Goldfinger - Shirley Bassey
3.We Have All The Time In The World - Louis Armstrong
4.Diamonds Are Forever - Shirley Bassey
5.Adele - Skyfall
6.Sam Smith - Writing's On The Wall
7. Thunderball - Tom Jones
8. Nobody Does It Better - Carly Simon
9. For Your Eyes Only - Sheena Easton
10. A View To A Kill - Duran Duran

(Side Note: So far, the best John Barry soundtrack surely has to be OHMSS - amazing work. I do love 'Wine With Stacey' from A View To A Kill as well).

Even though Louis Armstrong’s song was not a “main” theme, it is worth including (as is ‘Surrender’). I like mostly anything John Barry did (especially with Shirley Bassey, barring Mr. Kiss Kiss Bang Bang) and with David Arnold doing a better job then most, excluding most of the 70’s and 80’s stuff (especially Hamlisch’s disco heavy score), I would create a list including...
1.From Russia With Love
2.Diamonds Are Forever
3.Goldfinger
4.Thunderball
5.You Only Live Twice
6.Moonraker
7.We Have All The Time In The World
8.GoldenEye
9.You Know My Name
10.Tomorrow Never Dies
11.The World Is Not Enough
12.Nobody Does It Better
13.Live And Let Die
14.Man With The Golden Gun
15.Surrender
16.If You Asked Me To
17.Die Another Day
18.For Your Eyes Only

[Man From Hammer]

Originally Posted by Lyle_JP

My understanding is different. McClory sued because he was under the impression that he owned the rights to any original stories involving Blofeld or S.P.E.C.T.R.E. since both were introduced in the novel Thunderball. Blofeld was the original villain of TSWLM and that had to be changed to prevent the film from becoming mired in legal hell.

They go into detail about the problem in the Bluray documentary and there is no mention at all of any intention to use Spectre or Blofeld.

[Man From Hammer]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

The way I've always understood it is this: McClory announced plans to produce a movie called James Bond of the Secret Service, which he hoped would star Roger Moore as Bond and Sean Connery as M or some other supporting character, revealing some really ambitious plot ideas in the process. Eon threatened legal action because these plot ideas diverged quite a bit from the storyline of Thunderball, which is all he had the rights to. As a result, McClory countered by threatening action if they used Blofeld or SPECTRE in any of their future productions including The Spy Who Loved Me because they had originally been introduced in Thunderball and the other two novels in which they appear (YOLT and OHMSS) had already been filmed.

That being said, considering that McClory at one point tried to get a piece of the Bond pie by claiming that the whole idea of producing a James Bond movie was his to begin with, I wouldn't put it past him to try to claim that the concept of a Bond movie set underwater was his to own as well.

That McClory announced his intention to start filming his own Bond franchise in the late 90's is evidence enough that the guy was a few sandwiches short of a picnic. He owned the rights to one story and one story only. Even if he did own future use of Blofeld he could do nothing with it.

[Lyle_JP]

Originally Posted by Man From Hammer

They go into detail about the problem in the Bluray documentary and there is no mention at all of any intention to use Spectre or Blofeld.

I get my information from more than one source. In this case, Steven Jay Rubin. From his James Bond Film Encyclopedia:

McClory declared that he alone owned the rights to SPECTRE and that Broccoli could not use that organization in his latest 007 film, The Spy Who Loved Me. Broccoli, in turn, stonewalled McClory's project, claiming McClory had no rights to make additional James Bond movies from the original Thunderball stories. Outgunned, McClory stepped back. However, Broccoli did order screenwriter Richard Maibaum to remove any vestige of SPECTRE from The Spy Who Loved Me.

Page 258, 1995 edition

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by Man From Hammer

They go into detail about the problem in the Bluray documentary and there is no mention at all of any intention to use Spectre or Blofeld.

I've read it in several different places that the intention was to bring back Blofeld for TSWLM until McClory kiboshed that plan.

[BluProofie]

Originally Posted by Man From Hammer

That McClory announced his intention to start filming his own Bond franchise in the late 90's is evidence enough that the guy was a few sandwiches short of a picnic. He owned the rights to one story and one story only. Even if he did own future use of Blofeld he could do nothing with it.

His plan was to remake Thunderball over and over basically.

Gotta love what they did with opening of For Your Eyes Only. Broccoli saying “Keep SPECTRE and Blofeld. We don’t need them.”

[Lyle_JP]

Originally Posted by BluProofie

“Keep SPECTRE and Blofeld. We don’t need them.”

Well, not until they decided to make an amalgam of Scream 3 and Austin Powers, anyway.

[Man From Hammer]

Originally Posted by Lyle_JP

I get my information from more than one source. In this case, Steven Jay Rubin. From his James Bond Film Encyclopedia:

As reliable as Rubin is the people in the documentary are the ones who made the film from start to finish so I would expect them to know more than he does.
Of course they may have felt it unnecessary to mention it but all the way through the documentaries all the participants are all quite candid about the ups and downs of production.
The writer is one of those interviewed. As the book was the one and only that Fleming stipulated could NOT be made into a movie they do cover the story quite well.
I'm not denying that KM had the rights to Blofeld.
If Blofeld was to return McClory did them a favour

[Lyle_JP]

Originally Posted by Man From Hammer

As reliable as Rubin is the people in the documentary are the ones who made the film from start to finish so I would expect them to know more than he does.

"Because it wasn't in this one documentary, it probably didn't happen."

Those DVD/blu documentaries are entertaining and informative, but not one of them is the final word on the production of any of these films. Particularly since they all had to be approved by EON Productions, which is notorious for suppressing anything they find "too candid". Case in point: the Criterion Collection audio commentaries they had removed from the marketplace.

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by Man From Hammer

As reliable as Rubin is the people in the documentary are the ones who made the film from start to finish so I would expect them to know more than he does.
Of course they may have felt it unnecessary to mention it but all the way through the documentaries all the participants are all quite candid about the ups and downs of production.
The writer is one of those interviewed. As the book was the one and only that Fleming stipulated could NOT be made into a movie they do cover the story quite well.
I'm not denying that KM had the rights to Blofeld.
If Blofeld was to return McClory did them a favour

If the documentary you're talking about is the "Inside The Spy Who Loved Me" documentary that's on the blu-ray, I will point out that while fairly comprehensive, those documentaries still do skim over a lot. I can only speculate if SPECTRE is not mentioned in it, that perhaps they didn't want to give McClory too much credit for messing up their plans.

However, various sources do indicate that SPECTRE played some part in the initial plans for The Spy Who Loved Me. This is one example I found from just doing a quick Google search:

https://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/arti...t_history.php3

[scissorpuppy]

The documentaries on the dvds and later blu-ray were originally produced in the mid to late 90’s. Starting with the 1995 Goldfinger and Thunderball laserdiscs and later completed up until LTK for the Special Edition dvds. The MGM/EON/Sony/McClory mess wasn’t cleared up until well after these documentaries were finished. Perhaps certain things were left out or not covered
due to ongoing legalities. About half the series docs were remastered for HD when the first appeared on blu-ray but that was mostly for updated graphics and images. I don’t think any additional interviews or voice over work was done to update previous content.

[Verisimilitude1984]

Originally Posted by BluProofie

His plan was to remake Thunderball over and over basically.

Gotta love what they did with opening of For Your Eyes Only. Broccoli saying “Keep SPECTRE and Blofeld. We don’t need them.”

I'd always disliked how Blofeld was treated in FYEO. He was a significant villain, like Moriarty to Holmes. I felt he deserved a bigger send off and more respect given the earlier films. The fact that he never appeared again during the Moore era seemed like a huge missed opportunity. However, given what's been said on here about legal wrangles I respect Broccoli more for this move now!

[BluProofie]

Originally Posted by Verisimilitude1984

I'd always disliked how Blofeld was treated in FYEO. He was a significant villain, like Moriarty to Holmes. I felt he deserved a bigger send off and more respect given the earlier films. The fact that he never appeared again during the Moore era seemed like a huge missed opportunity. However, given what's been said on here about legal wrangles I respect Broccoli more for this move now!

He never appeared again because they couldn’t use him. The FYEO scene was done without naming him or showing his face.

[imsounoriginal]

They should've just left it alone and spared us that horrid opening sequence in FYEO but they wanted to stick it to McClory.

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by imsounoriginal

They should've just left it alone and spared us that horrid opening sequence in FYEO but they wanted to stick it to McClory.

Apart from sticking it to McClory, they also had fans who wouldn’t be privy to all the legal entanglements wanting to know when Blofeld would return so killing him off definitively (and in such an ignominious manner) killed two birds with one stone.

[jackinbox]

Originally Posted by Verisimilitude1984

However, given what's been said on here about legal wrangles I respect Broccoli more for this move now!

Why is that???

[Verisimilitude1984]

Originally Posted by jackinbox

Why is that???

Only in the sense that it was a somewhat clever response to draw a line under the past, though in terms of a story narrative and the character I don't think it was the best thing to do. Although you may say it was only implied that he was Blofeld as he is not expressly named, however enough character traits made it clear to the audience.

I was just reading up on the Fleming and McClory legal battle as I wasn't really aware of it. The impression I have so far is that Fleming took advantage of McClory and the latter deservedly got credit for the Thunderball story and Blofeld. However, it then seems that McClory wanted to almost keep remaking Thunderball and set up a competing franchise with 007. This may have been to keep the rights and make some money, but in my view the character would have suffered to some extent. Having said that, I really enjoyed Never Say Never Again and didn't think it was as much of a retread of Thunderball as the remake of Psycho was for Psycho.