List of UHDs that contain HDR10+

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

British thing, as well as sometimes not giving a toss so I throw a 'zed' in there for the hell of it.

Thanks for the explanation . Despite too many spelling and grammatical errors on my part in my personal postings in a rush to type up something on Blu-ray.com, I also have an interest in linguistics. I especially try to keep up with what’s happening across the pond, e.g. Eric eclectic –

Skateboarding dog has become an internet sensation - YouTube

and otherwise more technical - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...t#post15733466

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Ironically enough, Dolby Vision itself is starting to become more democratised because colourists no longer need a hardware content mapping unit (CMU), it can be done in software and it's actually included as standard in the paid version of Da Vinci Resolve! So if you have that, you're now 'Dolby Vision capable'. It does have some caveats in that it only allows access to Level 1 dynamic metadata, which is the first automated metadata pass that all home Dolby Vision content goes through in order to generate a base metadata file from the final graded HDR master. But if the user wants to enable the Level 2 dynamic metadata which allows for a variety of adjustable parameters then they must pay for the full DV licence.

Fair assessment. For the record, with regards to iterations ^ of the Dolby Vision pipeline, boutique colorist Robbie was taught by https://www.linkedin.com/in/aby-mathew-2a57ba1/

[tcripe]

Originally Posted by Leonidas_King

not very familiar with HDR10+

What exactly does it offer differently than HDR10?

Its basically the HDR10 version of Dolby Vision if that makes sense. Only available on Samsung and Panasonic TV's at the moment.

[Leonidas King]

Originally Posted by tcripe

Its basically the HDR10 version of Dolby Vision if that makes sense. Only available on Samsung and Panasonic TV's at the moment.

I mean, so those with DV capabilites will have HDR10+ convert to DV then ?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Fair assessment. For the record, with regards to iterations ^ of the Dolby Vision pipeline, boutique colorist Robbie was taught by https://www.linkedin.com/in/aby-mathew-2a57ba1/

He's put together a wonderful guide over at mixinglight.com, yup.

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Yes, but Geoff has commented about raised blacks on scenes in certain titles.

Last time I saw raised blacks was on First Blood, and that was HDR10 only.
Otherwise it's been stable for me in DV titles and I've been hunting for any issues (last DV titles watched were Matrix Revolutions & 2001).

Not talking about grading here but more the TV not dimming down the whole screen on full-field black, not even the black bars which sounds EXACTLY like the problem that LG OLEDS were (and still are, for some people) experiencing with DV. Black levels/gamma in scenes with reasonable to high brightness were fine, it never looked 'washed out' as such, but any time there was a very dark or totally black shot then I could clearly see that the blacks were not being dimmed down to off as I know the TV can do.

But with a simple click down on black level from 50 to 49 it has literally fixed the problem entirely, full-field black is now properly OFF, as are the borders. If I'm losing a fraction of shadow detail then so be it, I lose more than that just by having a bias light (which I was considering as one way of ameliorating the raised-bars problem with DV, so I dug out an old strip of LED lights and tried it). Without having a proper DV test pattern to check it with then I don't know if it's shaving off any black detail either way, not that I'd want to go back to how it was before in any case.

[TitusTroy]

Originally Posted by tcripe

Its basically the HDR10 version of Dolby Vision if that makes sense. Only available on Samsung and Panasonic TV's at the moment.

and that's exactly why I consider this a format war...they are competing with Dolby Vision and manufactuers/studios are taking sides as to which they will support...sounds exactly like HD-DVD vs Blu-ray

[TitusTroy]

Originally Posted by Leonidas_King

I mean, so those with DV capabilites will have HDR10+ convert to DV then ?

LG OLED owners already have a version of HDR10+ on their displays...it was a forward thinking design decision by LG...it's called Active HDR and is enabled by setting Dynamic Contrast to Low...this feature analyses the content frame by frame in real time to adjust the HDR tone mapping curve...this has the advantage of displaying each scene with an optimized HDR effect, as opposed to the HDR with a static metadata...so it's pretty much HDR10 with dynamic metadata (which is what HDR10+ is)

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by TitusTroy

and that's exactly why I consider this a format war...they are competing with Dolby Vision and manufactuers/studios are taking sides as to which they will support...sounds exactly like HD-DVD vs Blu-ray

Except in UHD Blu-ray's case both are being delivered on the same disc technology and each has an HDR layer that's playable on all machines. If people have a terrible case of FOMO or buyer's remorse or whatever then that's up to them to get all bent out of shape over, but the more that regular HDR processing improves then the less important dynamic metadata becomes. These are add-ons, not the whole enchilada.

[TitusTroy]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Except in UHD Blu-ray's case both are being delivered on the same disc technology and each has an HDR layer that's playable on all machines. If people have a terrible case of FOMO or buyer's remorse or whatever then that's up to them to get all bent out of shape over, but the more that regular HDR processing improves then the less important dynamic metadata becomes. These are add-ons, not the whole enchilada.

but my point is that it's not just consumers that are taking sides...it's the manufacturers and movie studios...they are choosing one over the other...why can't LG displays in 2018 officially support HDR10+?...why doesn't a 2018 Samsung QLED support Dolby Vision?...why do certain movie studios only choose to put HDR10 on their UHD discs while the streaming version has Dolby Vision??... they are making this into a fight where only 1 winner will emerge

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by TitusTroy

but my point is that it's not just consumers that are taking sides...it's the manufacturers and movie studios...they are choosing one over the other...why can't LG displays in 2018 officially support HDR10+?...why doesn't a 2018 Samsung QLED support Dolby Vision?...why do certain movie studios only choose to put HDR10 on their UHD discs while the streaming version has Dolby Vision??... they are making this into a fight where only 1 winner will emerge

Dude, we're still only a couple years into this WHOLE thing, of course it's gonna get all tribal as one tries to head off the other and become the standard, this is normal. But just as the 'war' between Dolby and DTS ended up with most manufacturers saying "**** it" and putting both flavours of audio on their AVRs (as well as more besides those, e.g. Auro) then there's a very good chance the same will happen here as long as one isn't killed off by the other. If both co-exist to the point where there's enough content on the ground to finally justify including both systems then the manufacturers will do a similar thing with their TVs.

Sheesh, even Panasonic deigned to include Dolby Vision as well as + on their 2018 players because they can see the value of having something that does both. Their TVs don't do Dobly and won't for a while, but the seed has been planted. Give it time to grow...

[TitusTroy]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Dude, we're still only a couple years into this WHOLE thing, of course it's gonna get all tribal as one tries to head off the other and become the standard, this is normal. But just as the 'war' between Dolby and DTS ended up with most manufacturers saying "**** it" and putting both flavours of audio on their AVRs (as well as more besides those, e.g. Auro) then there's a very good chance the same will happen here as long as one isn't killed off by the other. If both co-exist to the point where there's enough content on the ground to finally justify including both systems then the manufacturers will do a similar thing with their TVs.

Sheesh, even Panasonic deigned to include Dolby Vision as well as + on their 2018 players because they can see the value of having something that does both. Their TVs don't do Dobly and won't for a while, but the seed has been planted. Give it time to grow...

that sounds like you just being optimistic and hoping for a best case scenario...everyone holding hands and singing Kumbaya...it could turn out to be the complete opposite where only HDR10+ survives...just because you want something to happen a certain way, it doesn't mean it will...and you even mentioned in your post "as long as one isn't killed off by the other"...which is my whole point...so you admit that it is a possiblilty

[Geoff D]

No-one knows how this is gonna shake down, not me and not you, and if I'm the optimist here then it's clear what side of the line you're on.

I'm just saying that there's a historical precedent, and that the two main 'dynamic' versions can be provided on the exact same delivery format - just as Dolby and DTS audio were/are - makes it a HELL of a lot easier for the two to co-exist and to eventually combine everything into one big HDR melting pot, regardless of yer race, yer colour or yer creed. The only obstacle here is not one of technology at all, it's about corporate stubbornness (a kind euphemism for greed ) and so we'll see how it plays out. Place your bets!

[Leonidas King]

Originally Posted by TitusTroy

LG OLED owners already have a version of HDR10+ on their displays...it was a forward thinking design decision by LG...it's called Active HDR and is enabled by setting Dynamic Contrast to Low...this feature analyses the content frame by frame in real time to adjust the HDR tone mapping curve...this has the advantage of displaying each scene with an optimized HDR effect, as opposed to the HDR with a static metadata...so it's pretty much HDR10 with dynamic metadata (which is what HDR10+ is)

So I have it then! Thank you for the info. Very helpful.

[TitusTroy]

Originally Posted by Leonidas_King

So I have it then! Thank you for the info. Very helpful.

it won't show as 'HDR10+' on your display though in the same way that you get that pop up for 'Dolby Vision' and 'HDR' content on the top right of your screen...Active HDR is not 100% the same as HDR10+ but it serves the same purpose

you can scroll down towards the bottom the this LG C7 review to read more about Active HDR...

https://www.rtings.com/tv/reviews/lg/c7-oled/settings

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

He's put together a wonderful guide over at mixinglight.

Yeah, they were one of the first boutiques to take the Dolby plunge (about a year ago) - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...y#post14337071

Though personally, I think his site would get more traffic if it had more than thee occasional freebie.

[Geoff D]

One hell of a freebie though, I would've expected that to have been behind a pay wall as nothing else I've happened across on a publicly-accessible site has ever come close to that sort of hands-on insight as to what Dolby Vision is and does. (Yes, I know you post lots of titbits inbetween Top Gun 2 updates and I've gleaned so much from what you've given us, but that DV tutorial of Robbie's was still a massive eye-opener.)

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

One hell of a freebie though, I would've expected that to have been behind a pay wall as nothing else I've happened across on a publicly-accessible site has ever come close to that sort of hands-on insight as to what Dolby Vision is and does. (Yes, I know you post lots of titbits inbetween Top Gun 2 updates and I've gleaned so much from what you've given us, but that DV tutorial of Robbie's was still a massive eye-opener.)

another British saying thing?
or did you watch my last posted YouTube clip in the HDR Discussion Thread.

[Geoff D]

British thing

[Staying Salty]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

One hell of a freebie though, I would've expected that to have been behind a pay wall as nothing else I've happened across on a publicly-accessible site has ever come close to that sort of hands-on insight as to what Dolby Vision is and does. (Yes, I know you post lots of titbits inbetween Top Gun 2 updates and I've gleaned so much from what you've given us, but that DV tutorial of Robbie's was still a massive eye-opener.)

You are our “Rosetta stone”. You take the “engineering” talk and translate it into the language we "dummies" can understand.

[jibucha]

answer

• because they both do 'essentially accomplish the same end result', just get there differently
• LG processes within the display, in real-time; quite well indeed (note :: it's my current understanding, this solution 'does-not' use metadata, rather 'otherwise')
• (HDR10+) implementation runs a computer analysis on the content, with obvious/implied implications, essentially the same as HDR10, although using dynamic metadata rather than static metadata, with the obvious improvement to content presentation
• question - - why would LG or any other manufacturer allow the HDR10+ Alliance to 'control/influence' how their respective displays show content? (especially, when they already have an 'similar' display-centric solution, which 'might' actually be 'superior'?)
• point - - - HDR10+ does categorically represent a 'format war' for many of the reasons already listed here in previous posts
• point - - - given the realities of manufacturing (an example :: the Blu-ray specifications) displays/players options limit choices to both consumers and manufacturers (conflicts prevail with required incompatible choices/options)
  
• ok?

original post - - edited 12/3/18 @ 5pm CST

answer

• because they both do 'exactly the same'
• LG processes in the display, in real time; quite well indeed
• Samsung (HDR10+) runs a computer analysis on the content, thereby controling how the content is displayed
• question - - why would LG or any other manufacturer allow Samsung to 'control' how their respective displays show content?
• point - - HDR10+ does catagorically represent a 'format war' for many of the reasons already listed here in precious posts
• ok?

Originally Posted by TitusTroy

..why can't LG displays in 2018 officially support HDR10+?...