List of UHDs that contain HDR10+

[TheSweetieMan]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

I tried to tell you guys I couldn't see Sony, LG, etc weren't going to do Samsung any favors.

Yeah, this is actually huge.

If HDR10+ can’t gain momentum with Sony, that hurts that format, as Sony has the best transfers on the format—and if Spider-Man: Homecoming and The Dark Tower are anything to go by, the combo of Dolby Vision and Sony, is going to continue to be a jaw dropper.

[Staying Salty]

Originally Posted by ray0414

John Archer with some interesting stuff. Hdr10+ fakery? The bottom tweet is 1st.

If true, it seems to me this could cause some issues among the HDR10+ brethren in the future.

[philochs]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

LG and Samsung have the whole Korean rivalry going on so I'm not surprised that the former has poo-pooed the notion of HDR10+, and Sony have always marched to the beat of their own drum anyway.

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

I tried to tell you guys I couldn't see Sony, LG, etc weren't going to do Samsung any favors.

Originally Posted by gkolb

And at this point in the presentation, LG and Sony get up and exit the building...

Originally Posted by TheSweetieMan

Yeah, this is actually huge.

If HDR10+ can’t gain momentum with Sony, that hurts that format, as Sony has the best transfers on the format—and if Spider-Man: Homecoming and The Dark Tower are anything to go by, the combo of Dolby Vision and Sony, is going to continue to be a jaw dropper.

This is what happens when you create a new HDR format out of spite. Looks like Samsung is going to have to completely change the rules up to even think about getting Sony or LG to nibble. They both seem put off by the concept completely, yes I can vividly imagine them listening to Samsung's HDR10+ pitch...

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

A TV manufacturer that sells more TVs than their competitors combined, yes. Along with two studios, one of which has more UHD released than any other studio (WB) with more to come.

All of this in only 9 months after it was officially announced.

DV has like 5 discs 3 years after it was announced. LOL!

See, this is the kind of FUD that Heat was spreading, as Zmarty's DV list thread has 30 or more released titles in it. Not 5 or 10. Smh.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=276448

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by tyrok

The average customer that goes to the store not knowing the exact model they want isn't going to care or notice the differences between HDR, HDR10+ and DV unless the sales person is demoing them side-by-side.

And not even then because everything shown in chain stores is in "store blast" mode. Most people buy their sets based upon price and brand perception anyway.

In a quality retailer who calibrates all the display sets, it might be a different matter, although most consumers are so used to an over-saturated, over-bright and high contrast picture, they don't like the picture on properly calibrated TV's. If they did, we'd still have Kuro's (which took my breath away the first time I saw one).

Back in the early days of Blu-ray, I didn't know about soap opera effect as a result of motion control modes. I'd go to a retailer to check out BD and it would like complete crap with stuttering motion. I couldn't believe how bad it looked and I thought the companies supporting BD were completely nuts and it kept me from buying BD. It wasn't until I realized how badly the systems were setup in the stores that I understood what was going on.

In the early days of HD TV's, surveys showed the vast majority of consumers were watching SD pictures on them. They had no HD sources. Even today, when I help out people in my development with their systems, half the time they're still watching the SD version of channels that have HD versions.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by philochs

This is what happens when you create a new HDR format out of spite. Looks like Samsung is going to have to completely change the rules up to even think about getting Sony or LG to nibble. They both seem put off by the concept completely, yes I can vividly imagine them listening to Samsung's HDR10+ pitch...

It's not going to be based upon Samsung's pitch. If other manufacturers decide to go with HDR10+, I think the primary driver is going to be not having to pay Dolby's per unit royalty, especially at the lower end where margins are relatively small.

[philochs]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

It's not going to be based upon Samsung's pitch. If other manufacturers decide to go with HDR10+, I think the primary driver is going to be not having to pay Dolby's per unit royalty, especially at the lower end where margins are relatively small.

That only enticed Panasonic and Philips EU. The other manufactures already support Dolby Vision, and they're not going to get rid of it now. They're fine with paying Dolby's fees, but what they don't want is derivative technology from their biggest competitor. A likely scenario might be that Samsung loosens the reins and allows for Sony and LG to add HDR10+ without sharing any data between companies. They say "25 companies are interested in joining the alliance." Who cares about that, if you can't even elude to who they might be. Obviously, it's not Sony or LG, they've gone on record as not being interested. Unless Samsung gets Disney and other studios on board, LG and Sony will have little motivation, and it seems Samsung will have to do much better to woo them, than just charging a little less.

[Aidenag]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

It's not going to be based upon Samsung's pitch. If other manufacturers decide to go with HDR10+, I think the primary driver is going to be not having to pay Dolby's per unit royalty, especially at the lower end where margins are relatively small.

If tcl had no issue gettin dv+profitability, nobody else should. The rumored cost to dolby is only a couple bucks per set/player. And lets not forget 10+ has yearly fees as well, so its not like its free for 10+ either

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by ZoetMB

It's not going to be based upon Samsung's pitch. If other manufacturers decide to go with HDR10+, I think the primary driver is going to be not having to pay Dolby's per unit royalty, especially at the lower end where margins are relatively small.

If "bargain basement" companies - like TCL & Vizio on the hardware side and Lionsgate on the software side - have no issues paying Dolby royalties it's really a non-issue. They pay the MPEG group royalties, Microsoft for VC-1, Dolby (TrueHD, DD & DD+), DTS, etc. Another couple of bucks and they can claim being compatible with the highest spec consumer HDR format available.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

If "bargain basement" companies - like TCL & Vizio on the hardware side and Lionsgate on the software side - have no issues paying Dolby royalties it's really a non-issue. They pay the MPEG group royalties, Microsoft for VC-1, Dolby (TrueHD, DD & DD+), DTS, etc. Another couple of bucks and they can claim being compatible with the highest spec consumer HDR format available.

I've still read press that claims the royalties are an issue. If they're not, they're not and I would like to see DV implemented universally. But I think the cards are still out. I've deferred buying the Oppo 205 because I don't have a 4K TV yet anyway, but also because they haven't yet committed to being able to support HDR10+ via a firmware update. Now that the licensing has started, hopefully they'll be able to figure that out soon.

One thing I haven't seen discussed here is that many films wouldn't use HDR in any form (or would implement it for marketing reasons on a disc or stream, but wouldn't actually support the dynamics, just as the CD is capable of a 96db dynamic range, but almost no one uses it because everyone level compresses the hell out of everything to sound the loudest). Just as color is desaturated in most films today, the look of most films is not one of high contrast. And while deeper blacks may be highly desirable, I'm not sure that brighter light in a window really adds anything to a film.

[ZoetMB]

Originally Posted by Aidenag

If tcl had no issue gettin dv+profitability, nobody else should. The rumored cost to dolby is only a couple bucks per set/player. And lets not forget 10+ has yearly fees as well, so its not like its free for 10+ either

A few dollars on a $100 or less player is actually quite a big deal when it comes to profitability. These cheap players are sold on razor-thin margins. Frankly, I don't know why the major manufacturers bother at the low end, even with cheap Chinese or third-world manufacturing labor. I was under the impression that Sony and some others (but not Samsung) have changed strategy and were going for profitability over share.

A pair of fashionable jeans costs more at retail than the typical low end player. A medium-sized box of Legos costs more and it's just a pound or less of molded plastic. Think about that.

[Vangeli]

Maybe Wonder Woman "remastered"

[Nothing371]

I would kill to know if my 900e is going to have any future HDR10+ or similar firmware updates. 3 days to decide whether to return it...

[Geoff D]

The man from Del Sony, he say "no": http://www.techradar.com/news/heres-...ivals-to-hdr10

[BrownianMotion]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The man from Del Sony, he say "no": http://www.techradar.com/news/heres-...ivals-to-hdr10

And honestly, this is not a surprise to me. I never expected Sony to add this format, at least not any time soon.

Not sure why some were expecting them to.

[Geoff D]

Yep. No TV manufacturer has committed to using both HDR10+ and DV in their displays, Sony have put their eggs into the DoVi (catchy, that) basket and there they will stay until they FINALLY hatch sometime in late January/early February.

[Nothing371]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The man from Del Sony, he say "no": http://www.techradar.com/news/heres-...ivals-to-hdr10

as a broke guy, do I sit here with worry and regret? Or should I consider returning the 900e and paying double for futureproofing and DV?

I've had weeks and still haven't come to a proper answer. The display looks great. I can finally do 4K gaming and movies which is what I always wanted. But now Samsung comes out this week at CES and throws another wrench into the works and makes me question my purchasing rationale. Things seem more muddled than ever. Should I just wait another year? I can't just buy another TV in the fall.

The current UHD climate is like a rabbit hole.

[BrownianMotion]

Originally Posted by Nothing371

as a broke guy, do I sit here with worry and regret? Or should I consider returning the 900e and paying double for futureproofing and DV?

I've had weeks and still haven't come to a proper answer. The display looks great. I can finally do 4K gaming and movies which is what I always wanted. But now Samsung comes out this week at CES and throws another wrench into the works and makes me question my purchasing rationale. Things seem more muddled than ever. Should I just wait another year? I can't just buy another TV in the fall.

The UHD climate is like a rabbit hole.

I don't see why the introduction of a new format should affect your decision. If you were happy with the quality of the set before, then this should not change anything. The launch of HDR10+ will not make your TV any worse.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

The man from Del Sony, he say "no": http://www.techradar.com/news/heres-...ivals-to-hdr10

Not able to leave comments on the article - someone needs to tell the article's author that the formats are NOT exactly the same minus royalties, namely 12-bit support and the "golden reference" data.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Not able to leave comments on the article - someone needs to tell the article's author that the formats are NOT exactly the same minus royalties, namely 12-bit support and the "golden reference" data.

Dolby has thrown the "golden reference" out of the window, they've abandoned it for "Dolby Vision Calibration 2.0" which puts the TV into a gamma 2.2 space at peak brightness to allow for conventional calibration and then they note the relevant brightness/colour information. This data is then saved as a reference file and loaded into the TV to work as that display's specific "Dolby" reference.

[edit] One would hope that in the future Dolby allows this process to be more open-ended, it's exactly what we do as calibrators anyway only with the added step of loading the calibrated data back into the TV, rather than simply adjusting the settings during calibration and leaving them there. I know they'd prefer to maintain the mystique but it's not gonna last much longer, they might as well admit defeat and let us adjust the settings as we see fit, letting the dynamic metadata fall where it may.