HDR Discussion Thread

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Pieter V

Dolby Vision Podcast...

They talk some about 10/12 bits with respect to HDR. On that note, not described by the reporter or rep in the Podcast is the little known fact (except perhaps to members of working groups involved in HDR standards) which was revealed in the Ghost thread .

For you see, despite graphs of the visual threshold curve based on the detailed Barten model of the human visual system sometimes posted on the internet showing that 10bit PQ HDR (operating with a 10,000 nit peak) comes above the threshold curve (not good, theoretically), experience has shown that with realistic camera noise levels, the slight quantization artifacts predicted, theoretically, are actually masked and thusly do not present real problems in television production…..for natural content. Dolby acknowledges this in advanced discussion.

[Rick268]

Hello everyone.

I have the Samsung UN55JS8500 SUHD 4K TV which is "HDR Ready." I have watched youtube videos and netflix shows in 4k on my TV but have yet to experience anything in HDR. I am waiting for a price drop on the samsung UHD player or perhaps to purchase the new XBOX ONE S.

My question is, I watch Youtube and Netflix through the Smart Hub apps directly on the TV but I can't seem to watch in HDR. From what I've heard, the apps need to be updated for this feature and there is no update yet available?

My other question is, to activate HDR you need to turn on HDMI UHD Color in the settings menu? To do that it asks you for which of the 4 HDMI inputs. What if you are only trying to activate it for the smart hub apps, not my HDMI1 port (cable box).

thank you for your help

[puddy77]

Studio Daily article Roundabout Entertainment on Working in 4K, HDR Media, and Next-Generation Displays. Interesting interview and overview of the HDR grading process from a company that does stuff for Amazon. And a few interesting tidbits about movies captured using the ACES process.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Rick268

Hello everyone.

I have the Samsung UN55JS8500 SUHD 4K TV which is "HDR Ready." I have watched youtube videos and netflix shows in 4k on my TV but have yet to experience anything in HDR. I am waiting for a price drop on the samsung UHD player or perhaps to purchase the new XBOX ONE S.

My question is, I watch Youtube and Netflix through the Smart Hub apps directly on the TV but I can't seem to watch in HDR. From what I've heard, the apps need to be updated for this feature and there is no update yet available?

My other question is, to activate HDR you need to turn on HDMI UHD Color in the settings menu? To do that it asks you for which of the 4 HDMI inputs. What if you are only trying to activate it for the smart hub apps, not my HDMI1 port (cable box).

thank you for your help

Best consult with another active user of your TV model. I already passed on a heads-up to a brother JS8500 owner on one of the UHD/4K movie threads. If he doesn’t see it and respond to you, might want to PM him directly for help…
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...0#post12327965

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by puddy77

Studio Daily article Roundabout Entertainment on Working in 4K, HDR Media, and Next-Generation Displays. Interesting interview and overview of the HDR grading process from a company that does stuff for Amazon. And a few interesting tidbits about movies captured using the ACES process.

Thanks for the contribution puddy, quickly skimming just the first paragraph (I’ll read the rest later) to add a comment….

on an HDR acquisition transfer function note, expect for television programming that instead of capturing in RAW (16 bit) like some well-to-do theatrical motion pictures striving for the absolute best picture quality for the big screen, HDR TV show productions will probably gravitate more towards recording with vendor-specific OETFs (S-Log3, or Log curves from Arri, Canon, etc.) for high dynamic range capture which requires far less data than RAW and is suitable for the color grading process with current 10bit interface in many post houses i.e. bottom pathway ->

[puddy77]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Thanks for the contribution puddy, quickly skimming just the first paragraph (I’ll read the rest later) to add a comment….

on an HDR acquisition transfer function note, expect for television programming that instead of capturing in RAW (16 bit) like some well-to-do theatrical motion pictures striving for the absolute best picture quality for the big screen, HDR TV show productions will probably gravitate more towards recording with vendor-specific OETFs (S-Log3, or Log curves from Arri, Canon, etc.) for high dynamic range capture which requires far less data than RAW and is suitable for the color grading process with current 10bit interface in many post houses i.e. bottom pathway ->

[Show spoiler]

I recently watched a video interview at NAB with colorist Walter Volpatto saying the exact same thing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBmp...ature=youtu.be

[Penton-Man]

ray (from Michigan) originally posted a link to this interview article by an AV blogger here –> https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...w#post12332560 which delves into commercial theatrical projection HDR challenges, etc.

But D-Cinema challenges notwithstanding, food for thought in regards to issues/challenges specifically for in home HDR viewing…..

Significantly, it’s important to recognize that after some study and working group discussion, the reference viewing environment for HDR production in professional facilities was recently defined in the draft new Recommendation(DNR) ITU-R BT.[HDR-TV] as previously noted if memory serves, to be exact - Contributions (6C/43, 6C/38) - - but for the sake of those readers not involved in standards development and not having access to the restricted document when they try clicking on it….to no avail, in short, the bottom line is that 5 nits is the recommended surround luminance level for professional facilities doing HDR (reference environment).

However, it’s been almost 4 years since international standard recommendations regarding general viewing conditions in a home environment for assessment of the quality of television pictures on flat panel displays. The last RECommendation BT on this topic specifies the home viewing environment as being characterized by a value of 200 lux of incident light falling on the screen from the environment (e.g. from the windows during the day or the room lamps at night, as well as the light from the TV set itself, diffused back to it by the room walls and furniture).

Fast forwarding to present day, given the emergence of the ST. 2084 (PQ) transfer function application for HDR10 mastered content, I’m favoring the notion that an updated, or at least an amended specification to that of https://www.itu.int/dms_pubrec/itu-r...8-I!!PDF-E.pdf regarding general viewing conditions, in particular, surround lighting, may well be in order now to provide recommendation as to the preferred general viewing conditions in a home environment for HDR-TV….be it different or the same as in 2012.

Plus, another issue on the horizon with regards to in home viewing of HDR content is that for live TV, given past behavior of advertisers, etc., concerns have been expressed among engineers that there might be a risk of a video version of “loudness” until such time as an international RECommendation on operational practices for HDR-TV is in place akin to EBU R128/BS.1770 Audio Loudness.

In short, a loudness norm is needed to control dem bad actors in the future.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by puddy77

I recently watched a video interview at NAB with colorist Walter Volpatto saying the exact same thing.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oBmp...ature=youtu.be

andare Italia! (I hope England or Ireland don’t play them in a knockout round of Euro 2016 for I favor all three)

Anyway I’ll watch later, thanks again for thee additional contribution. Walter is top drawer, good to hear his validation of what I said, which I alluded to the same in discussion with Richard last May 13th , where I mentioned to expect a more practical workflow like S-Log3 for acquisition and XAVC for compression.. Fotokem has a good team in him and color scientist Slomka (formerly of Sony),

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

the ST. 2084 (PQ) transfer function application...

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Richard Paul

David Wood who is chairman of the DVB work group talked a bit about the HDR plans for DVB Phase 2.

In months to come when bruceames or some other member is inclined to start a Phase 2 (HFR) discussion thread, I’m ready with posting the materials and methods, discussion, results, and conclusion (<- sound familiar to those of you with doctorate degrees who are also published in peer reviewed journals) of a scientific test assessing for the value of HFR (100fps) capture and display in terms of perceived video quality as compared to 50 fps ….



Summary:
Beyond HDR, there will be a new, upgraded TV to purchase in the future. Isn’t there always?

[Penton-Man]

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...s#post12314816

^ For another example, carousel fireworks clip (by this Jan….
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...n#post11886136) begins at ~ 5min. 51sec. timestamp, with the high angle shot of the fireworks starting at around 7 min. –

https://vimeo.com/85754951

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Jan….

I forgot to include that Jan is also the 2015 SMPTE Student Paper Award Winner ….
https://www.smpte.org/about/awards-p.../student_paper

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Plus, another issue on the horizon with regards to in home viewing of HDR content is that for live TV, given past behavior of advertisers, etc., concerns have been expressed among engineers that there might be a risk of a video version of “loudness” until such time as an international RECommendation on operational practices for HDR-TV is in place akin to EBU R128/BS.1770 Audio Loudness.

In short, a loudness norm is needed to control dem bad actors in the future.

Especially when it comes to nonsense like this….
http://www.theverge.com/2016/5/30/11...pean-expansion

Just wondering (as I don't partake in other consumer AV forums) but which audio video forum on the world wide web is now considered the King of bombarding its readers with ads ? Certainly not Blu-ray.com.

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...s#post12314816

^ For another example, carousel fireworks clip (by this Jan….
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...n#post11886136) begins at ~ 5min. 51sec. timestamp, with the high angle shot of the fireworks starting at around 7 min. –

https://vimeo.com/85754951

is this encoded with HDR?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by ray0414

is this encoded with HDR?

afaik TIFF files (color graded for 0.005 - 4000 nits and BT.2020 color primaries) of the clips are available from Jan et al. at HdM, but they do not provide an HEVC Main10 encode of the material as a downloadable freebie…..you’d have to do that yourself.

[Outlaw1986]

I'm reading a couple conflicting sources and neither one very reliable I think. Was my tv made hdr compatible with a firmware upgrade or not? http://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-...carousel-modal
Thanks!

Edit: I found this link that says Samsung are updating all their 2015 uhd and suhd tvs to hdr compatible, https://news.samsung.com/global/sams...hd-and-uhd-tvs but I can't find anything after they actually did it or a list of the tvs they updated.

[batman2000]

is hdr being able to upgrade superior to dolby vision?

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by Outlaw1986

I'm reading a couple conflicting sources and neither one very reliable I think. Was my tv made hdr compatible with a firmware upgrade or not? http://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-...carousel-modal
Thanks!

Edit: I found this link that says Samsung are updating all their 2015 uhd and suhd tvs to hdr compatible, https://news.samsung.com/global/sams...hd-and-uhd-tvs but I can't find anything after they actually did it or a list of the tvs they updated.

Yes, they all got updates to hdr decoding.

[Outlaw1986]

Originally Posted by ray0414

Yes, they all got updates to hdr decoding.

Thanks, from what I'm understanding mine is only an 8 bit panel though , but it will push the hdr to as many colors as the 8 bit panel can compared to the new 10 bit panels. At least it got the update to some form of hdr at least.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by batman2000

is hdr being able to upgrade superior to dolby vision?

Will make good fodder for some content shootouts in the future. Would you be satisfied with a refined version of HDR10 being equal, or for the most part, imperceptibly equal to the quality of experience with Dolby Vision?