HDR Discussion Thread

[Geoff D]

I LOVE it when people shoot anamorphic like that, not using idiosyncratic old glass (or even more bafflingly, new glass made to resemble shitty old glass) but sharp modern lenses which give you all the detail but all dat lovely elliptical bokeh and whatnot as well.

It seems to have had a 2K finish but still, if it doesn't look amazing on UHD then I'll eat my diploma from Armchair Expert Night School.

[PaulGo]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Where’s Geoff , are you sober yet?

You handle blu225’s query and during my lunch break before I depart for 4th of July holiday weekend. I’ll post some insight as to the value of this announcement from Sony Europe regarding HLG…. http://sony-eur-eu-en-web--eur.custh...il/a_id/141169 in conjunction with the article about Kev’s presentation which I linked above from the QLED and HDR10 local event.

As you know I live in Maryland and I have the US version of this firmware on my 850C. I tried some HLG 4K identified content from YouTube via my Sony 800X Blu-ray player. Most of this content was picked up as HDR by the 800X and displayed in the HDR mode on the 850C. This leads me to assume the HLG implementation was also added to the US firmware.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by PaulGo

HLG implementation

have had on my TV for awhile, but it’s not your model.

Originally Posted by PaulGo

As you know I live in Maryland

now you’re getting me yearning for Maryland blue crabs and beer.

[HeatEquation]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

But…..HLG proponents would argue that with the PQ EOTF (of which HDR10, HDR10+ and Dolby Vision all are based upon), in order to make the image brighter for typical home viewing environments, you have to stretch the signal. If you don’t stretch the blacks you won’t see shadow in the details. So, as you try to stretch the blacks in PQ, the Weber (for definition of Weber contrast see Lecture 2 http://www.jennyreadresearch.com/201...visual-system/ )
plot moves to the right.




The Weber fractions increase and so as you stretch the PQ signal you’re more likely to see quantization artifacts in those low lights because quantization steps which were invisible in the dark images become more visible as the image gets brighter.

On the other hand, HLG was designed to be viewed in a wide range of environments (light controlled home theater, dim evening living room, bright daytime living room, etc.) on a wide range of brightness screens. And as the display gets brighter the Weber curve also shifts to the right



however, the artifacts in the low lights don’t become visible (in fact the banding performance improves slightly with higher nit capable displays) sooooo,

the contention is that HLG is more suitable than PQ to viewing on brighter displays in brighter environments, not just in reference viewing environments.

Interesting post.

We may not see as many HDR10 vs HLG posts on here as we do HDR10 vs DV or HDR10 vs HDR10+, simply because HLG content/support isn't that widespread yet and it will likely never find its way onto disc, but I've read articles comparing HLG and HDR10. As with any format, you'll have supporters and detractors, but I've had a chance to compare HDR10/HLG, and you'd be hard pressed to tell much of a difference between the two.

HDR in general is a big upgrade over SDR, but the difference between all of these HDR formats in real world content is so minuscule at the moment.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

Interesting post.

We may not see as many HDR10 vs HLG posts on here as we do HDR10 vs DV or HDR10 vs HDR10+, simply because HLG content/support isn't that widespread yet and it will likely never find its way onto disc, but I've read articles comparing HLG and HDR10. As with any format, you'll have supporters and detractors, but I've had a chance to compare HDR10/HLG, and you'd be hard pressed to tell much of a difference between the two.

Contrary to dimmer viewing environments, for example - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...d#post12847729

With live HDR content, as a videophile, I don’t think you’ll be hard pressed to see the quantization artifacts in the low lights with PQ-based HDR as consumer displays become brighter and brighter over time in order to best accommodate HDR viewing in daytime home viewing environments by displaying an overall brighter image. Whether they will make a difference in your personal appreciation of watching HDR soccer or something like Roland Garros tennis tournament is a different matter.

Thee above plots are a red flag to the superiority of HLG over PQ in non-reference viewing environments. The only uncertainly is exactly where the Schreiber point lies.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

shoot anamorphic

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

[HeatEquation]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Contrary to dimmer viewing environments, for example - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...d#post12847729

With live HDR content, as a videophile, I don’t think you’ll be hard pressed to see the quantization artifacts in the low lights with PQ-based HDR as consumer displays become brighter and brighter over time in order to best accommodate HDR viewing in daytime home viewing environments by displaying an overall brighter image. Whether they will make a difference in your personal appreciation of watching HDR soccer or something like Roland Garros tennis tournament is a different matter.

Thee above plots are a red flag to the superiority of HLG over PQ in non-reference viewing environments. The only uncertainly is exactly where the Schreiber point lies.

Fair enough. There are situations in which certain formats perform better than others. For HLG, that includes live content and brighter displays. But on current content/displays, it doesn't seem that the differences are very pronounced.

Also, I don't watch soccer, but I'd love to see an NFL game in HDR.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...type=3&theater

Why didn't people get as excited over the Weapon's 'VV' sensor as they are over the mooted Sony one?

[DanBa]

"Franco-German cultural channel ARTE will be showing the opera Carmen by Georges Bizet in 4K Ultra HD HDR [HEVC HLG HDR] on three satellites.
The broadcast will take place on Thursday, July 6, at 2055 CET and is a live performance of the opera at the Festival d’Aix-en-Provence."
https://twitter.com/DanielBa78/statu...39123169226752

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

Fair enough. There are situations in which certain formats perform better than others. For HLG, that includes live content and brighter displays. But on current content/displays, it doesn't seem that the differences are very pronounced.

Also, I don't watch soccer, but I'd love to see an NFL game in HDR.

I enjoy NFL football too , it’s just that having played soccer from childhood thru university level I have a special affinity to watching that sport. Also, keep in mind thee assertion of HLG potentially being better suited to brighter displays for brighter viewing environments isn’t necessarily exclusive only to live content.

Originally Posted by HeatEquation

As with any format, you'll have supporters and detractors...

Following my days playing amateur soccer and especially enjoying the camaraderie of fellow teammates during the college experience, I moved on to appreciating and being a practitioner of science, real science - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...d#post12052497 . rather than the marketing and fanboy-ism of whichever video format happens to be the flavor of the day. I find all HDR formats (HLG, Dolby Vision, HDR10+, etc.) to be interesting and have their pros and cons.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Why didn't people get as excited over the Weapon's 'VV' sensor as they are over the mooted Sony one?

Give me a few moments to find a recent BSC clip to help me in replying ^, first to Dan.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DanBa

"Franco-German cultural channel ARTE will be showing the opera Carmen by Georges Bizet in 4K Ultra HD HDR [HEVC HLG HDR] on three satellites.
The broadcast will take place on Thursday, July 6, at 2055 CET and is a live performance of the opera at the Festival d’Aix-en-Provence."
https://twitter.com/DanielBa78/statu...39123169226752

The French do seem to like using operas as a testing ground for UHD HDR….
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...a#post13319346

From Turkey, I would have enjoyed seeing this performance in HDR and listening to with immersive audio…..

Adorable dog steals the show during orchestra performance in Turkey - YouTube

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Why didn't people get as excited over the Weapon's 'VV' sensor as they are over the mooted Sony one?

Well I think there have been various puff pieces related to the Weapon 8K VV camera, e.g. with Guardians of the Galaxy Vol. 2 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ONqA...=youtu.be#t=4s

as well as more serious conversations, e.g. https://vimeo.com/220320133#t=5m38s

nevertheless, since the next generation of Sony Cinealta with the 36x24 sensor is still in development, talkin even a larger cine sensor camera, let’s take a moment to mention an upcoming feature film with a 4K DI and HDR (DV) grade….

THE DARK TOWER - Official Trailer (HD) - YouTube

[disrember]

all eyes are on the BBC coverage of Wimbledon. Last year the finals had a UHD satellite feed, but as there were no domestic receivers available then, only BBC engineers could watch the channel.

http://advanced-television.com/2016/...transmissions/

This year most people have sky Q, which is already receiving the occasional UHD sports transmission. If the BBC do broadcast the Wimbledon matches, I am guessing it will not have its own dedicated channel as the article mentions but will follow the same principal of sky, which is on screen button to switch to the UHD feed (or red button).

http://www.a516digital.com/2017/06/b...reams-for.html

Could this also be a live demo of HLG.

I am also assuming that as the match conclude the less the extra feeds will be needed and can used for a UHD stream?

[Penton-Man]

shoutout to gochya
as the DI conform editor for Spider-Man Homecoming and all your EDLs, e.g. tweets included.

Roll on.

[ray0414]

James Gunn confirming today via his Facebook page that Guardiians of the Galaxy V2 4k BD is true and will be Disneys 1st 4k Blu Ray.

[Canada]

Andrew from AR media.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRgPBeez4Co

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by ray0414

James Gunn confirming today via his Facebook page that Guardiians of the Galaxy V2 4k BD is true and will be Disneys 1st 4k Blu Ray.

To be fair, as a capture medium, film is not quite as inherently inferior compared to common high end digital cine camera capture as one might get the impression from reading J.D.’s tweets. Kodak Vision 3 has a DR of 13.5 stops. A significant limiting factor is that post house facilities are not doing 4K 16bit scans (archival quality) as standard practice in order to harvest all color fidelity and dynamic range that celluloid is capable of capturing.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

shoutout to gochya
as the DI conform editor for Spider-Man Homecoming and all your EDLs, e.g. tweets included.

Roll on.

As to sound, interview with the supervising sound editor for Spider-Man Home Coming…..coming soon on Randi’s postPerspective ( http://postperspective.com/).

[Staying Salty]

http://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-hi...l#post54097481

Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob

I found a patent, not to long ago that had Disney as the creater of the tone mapping algorithm used in Dolby Vision.

Is this true? If so, does it really mean anything i.e. Disney and possible Dolby Vision releases?