HDR Discussion Thread

[Penton-Man]

For those indie shooters on a budget, don’t get the impression you absolutely need a mega thousand dollar Sony BVM-X300 for your personal HDR projects. For the money, you can get a great result economically by using the Atomos Shogun Flame (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...2C&A=details&Q
) as a budget HDR grading monitor.

Recently a Sony ICE (Independent Certified Expert <- basically an independent contractor for Sony rather than a Sony employee per se) brought his graded footage of a short film using the Atomos Flame into Sony’s Digital Motion Picture Studio and it was nearly spot on! as compared to running the same footage thru the ultra expensive Sony X300 critical reference monitor, granted it’s not perfect and is tiny compared to the X300. But the Atomos is remarkably accurate and gives you the right color range for 2020 grading.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

For those indie shooters on a budget, don’t get the impression you absolutely need a mega thousand dollar Sony BVM-X300 for your personal HDR projects. For the money, you can get a great result economically by using the Atomos Shogun Flame (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...2C&A=details&Q
) as a budget HDR grading monitor.

Recently a Sony ICE (Independent Certified Expert <- basically an independent contractor for Sony rather than a Sony employee per se) brought his graded footage of a short film using the Atomos Flame into Sony’s Digital Motion Picture Studio and it was nearly spot on! as compared to running the same footage thru the ultra expensive Sony X300 critical reference monitor, granted it’s not perfect and is tiny compared to the X300. But the Atomos is remarkably accurate and gives you the right color range for 2020 grading.

Sounds great, but most consumer and pro-sumer cameras still don't have the amount of latitude to create the images necessary for HDR without over or under exposing and many are still 8 bit with Rec 709 even if they have 2160p recording. You still need a serious video camera that costs some serious bucks with a greater usable f-stop range for that.

[Outlaw1986]

Guess I'll find out Tuesday if they really did update my Samsung TV with HDR or not.

[Opips3]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

Sounds great, but most consumer and pro-sumer cameras still don't have the amount of latitude to create the images necessary for HDR without over or under exposing and many are still 8 bit with Rec 709 even if they have 2160p recording. You still need a serious video camera that costs some serious bucks with a greater usable f-stop range for that.

That's 8 bit with Rec 709 was 25 years old technology. (heheh)

10 bit and 12 bit are new technology chipset is not cheap. Finally coming 4K is improved large screen so need with HDR.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

Sounds great....You still need a serious video camera that costs some serious bucks with a greater usable f-stop range for that.

Well, we be a serious bunch here, no? Some folks here are looking at spending some serious bucks on their home TVs, for example…..https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=280279

Freakosaurus, you and our feline friend (Opips, where’s your old avatar?) have inspired me to elaborate at bit further later on and while I think to type up a more serious technical reply to you for tomorrow’s posting (if indeed I survive the early morning ride with some faaaast two-wheelers), I feel like we’re kindred spirits , so until then, for the moment, I’ll leave you with this . At first glance, viewers (including me) thought these were tiny brontosauri ….

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Well, we be a serious bunch here, no? Some folks here are looking at spending some serious bucks on their home TVs, for example…..https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=280279

Freakosaurus, you and our feline friend (Opips, where’s your old avatar?) have inspired me to elaborate at bit further later on and while I think to type up a more serious technical reply to you for tomorrow’s posting (if indeed I survive the early morning ride with some faaaast two-wheelers), I feel like we’re kindred spirits , so until then, for the moment, I’ll leave you with this . At first glance, viewers (including me) thought these were tiny brontosauri ….

[Show spoiler]

Why, that's their famous brontosaurus stance that helps ward off predator attack! Didn't you watch the latest Discovery Channel show on the subject??

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

Why, that's their famous brontosaurus stance that helps ward off predator attack! Didn't you watch the latest Discovery Channel show on the subject??

No, unfortunately, I struggle finding enough time to watch all my favorite non-cinematic content -> soccer (and I don’t even receive Sky Q (http://www.skysports.com/football/ne...h-sky-q-silver )
….much less do I have the time for accessory viewing choices like the Discovery Channel, informative though it may be.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

Sounds great, but most consumer and pro-sumer cameras still don't have the amount of latitude to create the images necessary for HDR without over or under exposing and many are still 8 bit with Rec 709 even if they have 2160p recording. You still need a serious video camera that costs some serious bucks with a greater usable f-stop range for that.

Well I was primarily addressing users/owners of relatively inexpensive professional cameras on the order of the FS7 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/cont...2C&A=details&Q ) on up to the Sony F5, looking to save money in their home editing workplace. Also remember, one should keep in mind that a typical SDR tv has a dynamic range of about 6 stops.

Give that, shooters consider HDR anything greater than about 10 or 11 stops. So even with an old Sony EX-1 (very low cost professional camera given its age and features) capturing 11 stops will benefit from HDR being shown on an HDR screen. Of course as you know and has been well publicized by countless conference speakers and bloggers (although they may not have provided an easy to read chart in color), HDR acquisition is most optimal when you’re acquiring in RAW or log with an ~ 14 stop or greater (claimed) high end professional camera….

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

inexpensive

P.S.
In regards to what may be considered a truly legitimate JoeQPublic consumer camera…the feature film Hardcore Henry was captured nearly entirely with cheapo GoPro3 Black Edition cameras which sell for around what? $400. and although I highly doubt it was mentioned in any of the reviews of the recent Blu-ray edition, I'll inform that that *lowly* GoPro acquisitioned movie was deemed to have enough dynamic range to be given a Dolby Vision grade/finish several months ago in Hollywood at this Dolby facility….https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...e#post11569063 to produce an HDR version of the movie.

[Penton-Man]

A bit on broadcast….
http://www.nbcolympics.com/4khdr

Captured by Sony HDC-4300 4K (broadcast) cameras using the future proof S-Log3 transfer function (which can preserve up to 20 stops dynamic range even though state of the art studio/broadcast cameras (the HDC- 4300) are capable of ~14 to 15 stops dynamic range currently). For the Opening Ceremony in HDR, the recorded signal is then converted to PQ (ST 2084) for transmission. Grading planned at 1000 nits peak brightness.

[Kevinicus]

I know there was a lot of talk about problems with the Samsung player and the settings with HDR 4k Blu-rays and the settings needing to be different with some titles, but what about with non-HDR displays and in particular 1080p displays?

I have a projector that is 1080p and the Phillips player, and the 4k Blu-rays do not look right. The color is off somehow. I'm not sure if it's saturation or some other issue, but the standard Blu-rays of the same movies look better. I've tested the Samsung player as well and noticed the same thing.

Does anyone else have this issue, and is there a good way to combat it?

[Penton-Man]

Sorry Kev, can’t help you with that old 1080p projector/UHD Blu-ray player chain. Perhaps ask or peruse some of the more projector-centric threads we have to see if anyone determined the juice was even worth the squeeze with that setup.

[Penton-Man]

For those planning on keeping their powder dry for the time being….

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

....if things stay on schedule with developing receiver decoder ICs and your poor back can hold out, it’s estimated that maybe as early as 2019 be the year for yet an additional feature for TVs, namely HFR…https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...r#post12366193

On that ^ note, not only known for its expert technical reports, but also a scientific level quality demo coming up here….https://tech.ebu.ch/events/2016/ibc-2016 at IBC. While I’m in Amsterdam at the conference, I’ll be checking out the EBU stand.

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by DanBa

Apparently, VP9 Profile 2 supports HLG HDR.

We should have:
. HLG HDR in VP9 Profile 2 (and likely the upcoming AV1) aimed at streaming
http://www.streamingmedia.com/Articl...ts-111296.aspx
. HLG HDR in HEVC aimed at TV broadcast.

I have heard that there will be some big announcements about HLG sometime around IFA. I am hoping that one of the announcements will be HDMI 2.1.

[Outlaw1986]

All the research I could do my tv I think is an 8 bit panel but they did an update to support HDR10, but I ran an xbox one 4k tv details test on my new xbox one s and all the boxes where checked including the ones that say my tv supports 4k 10-bit.

Even if my tv is 8 bit does that mean I should pick 10 bit panel anyway? Or is it actually a 10-bit panel and some of the reviews are wrong? I guess my earlier question was answered and it does for sure support HDR! My tv is a Samsung JU7100FXZA http://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-...zQVcDBAZmK6Nwg

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by Outlaw1986

All the research I could do my tv I think is an 8 bit panel but they did an update to support HDR10, but I ran an xbox one 4k tv details test on my new xbox one s and all the boxes where checked including the ones that say my tv supports 4k 10-bit.

Even if my tv is 8 bit does that mean I should pick 10 bit panel anyway? Or is it actually a 10-bit panel and some of the reviews are wrong? I guess my earlier question was answered and it does for sure support HDR! My tv is a Samsung JU7100FXZA http://www.bestbuy.com/site/samsung-...zQVcDBAZmK6Nwg

Im pretty sure the ju7100 is 10 bit despite earlier reports that it was only 8 bit.

[Outlaw1986]

Thanks, a big relief that it is! So far Deadpool and Allegiant look great. Going to check out Batman vs. Superman tomorrow night probably! I think I'm going to re watch Deadpool this weekend again, then compare a couple scenes to the blu ray right away after I watch it when I have more time.

[Geoff D]

A TV's panel can be 8-bit but still be able to receive & process 10 or even 12-bit UHD signals. Not saying that's the case with the Samsung, but it's worth pointing out.

[Outlaw1986]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

A TV's panel can be 8-bit but still be able to receive & process 10 or even 12-bit UHD signals. Not saying that's the case with the Samsung, but it's worth pointing out.

Thanks, I'm just happy it does something with the 10 bit HDR signal. I'm probably looking to upgrade the TV again and move this one to the other room but now I can wait a year or two and feel like I'm not missing out on much yet.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

Sounds great,...

Like you, I'm of the sentiment it is.

High Dynamic Range (HDR) Explained - YouTube

On a little bit more of an advanced colorful note, I’ve often wondered how “subject cDa29” a functional tetrachromat (http://www.digitaljournal.com/article/326976 ) sees our world.