UHD Blu-ray Disc Authentication Poll

[octagon]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

Do you have an opposite agenda?

Not particularly.

I hope UHD-BD discs are a marked improvement over BD. I hope they're cheap, I hope they're plentiful and I hope they play for as long I'm alive to pop them into a player.

But if they only represent a marginal improvement over BD or they're priced out of my range or the selection is limited or they don't last a lifetime that will fine too.

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by octagon

Not particularly.

I hope UHD-BD discs are a marked improvement over BD. I hope they're cheap, I hope they're plentiful and I hope they play for as long I'm alive to pop them into a player.

But if they only represent a marginal improvement over BD or they're priced out of my range or the selection is limited or they don't last a lifetime that will fine too.

Fair enough.

From a few tidbits I've been gathering, it's possible that the average player may start in the $300-$400 range (probably the Digital Bridge capable units will have a higher premium charge to start) and the disc prices may not be set much higher than the MSRP already established for Blu-ray (with the usual street price being much lower).

Maybe, just maybe they're shifting standard Blu-ray to be more of a DVD alternative rather than pricing UHD discs into the niche-based stratosphere. They tried that with 3D and it backfired horribly.

Cross fingers for that and no onerous DRM schemes.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

From a few tidbits I've been gathering, it's possible that the average player may start in the $300-$400 range (probably the Digital Bridge capable units will have a higher premium charge to start) and the disc prices may not be set much higher than the MSRP already established for Blu-ray (with the usual street price being much lower).

AFAIK the only other source to gauge against is Sony's 4K Unlimited for the FMP-X1 and X10. Titles start at $30 and rentals are $7.99 (IIRC). I believe the prices are similar on Amazon, don't know if Amazon rents UHD titles.

[Kirsty_Mc]

Originally Posted by octagon

Self-selecting internet polls are one step below online petitions on any reasonable 'sit up and take notice' scale.

I'm not knocking online polls, mind you. They can be fun and they can be interesting.

But any resemblance between the results of an online poll and statistically significant data is completely coincidental.

It has one advantage... The target group are the ones participating. If it to be a niche format, then we are the niche (mostly).

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by octagon

What is it with you and this poll?

I’ve helped people in polls from way back when, e.g.
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=104430

I still like ‘em even as an independent initiative, per Wendell.

octagon's are only allowed one vote, if you care to contribute.

[I KEEL YOU]

The new Ultra HD disc press release where they introduce the logo doesn't mention anything about DRM, so I guess that's good news.

[Dylan34]

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

The new Ultra HD disc press release where they introduce the logo doesn't mention anything about DRM, so I guess that's good news.

I noticed that too. Hopefully, it's not the last thing they drop on us right before the format is released. with 7 months to go anything can happen, good or bad.

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

The new Ultra HD disc press release where they introduce the logo doesn't mention anything about DRM, so I guess that's good news.

Because the Majors are gonna force DRM not the BDA....

[Dylan34]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

Because the Majors are gonna force DRM not the BDA....

Even so, it will be announced by the BDA if or when it becomes a final spec of the format.

[Ruined]

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

The new Ultra HD disc press release where they introduce the logo doesn't mention anything about DRM, so I guess that's good news.

So you think it will have no DRM then? Lol.

It is by design to keep the end user in the dark as long as possible to avoid negative press. BD+ was also very cloak and dagger at first.

UHD DRM spec was leaked during Sony breach. All UHD players can do online authentication but it is to be used on a per disc basis. Online authentication will be UHD's version of BD+. It won't be on discs at launch to avoid backlash, but over time like BD+, online authentication will find its way into many UHD discs as even launch UHD players have the hardware and software to do it. If there were no plans to use it, it would not be in the AACS spec - and it is in the spec: http://www.myce.com/news/sony-hack-r...details-75833/

[Geoff D]

I think you're right Ruined, titles won't have online authentication at launch but at some point some hot new movie will be released on it and will require a time-based key - and with people having already bought into the format, they're in no position to refuse if they want to play said hot new movie. The good thing that might come from that is if people really make a fuss, so the studios get the message and they leave such things off of future releases (it is optional, after all).

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

octagon's are only allowed one vote, if you care to contribute.

As I've already said, I don't yet have enough information to know what I will do or won't do in response to authentication schemes that have not yet been announced on discs that don't yet exist.

Sorry

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

....so the studios get the message and they leave such things off of future releases (it is optional, after all).

Messaging can be a good thing.

[Dex Robinson]

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

The new Ultra HD disc press release where they introduce the logo doesn't mention anything about DRM, so I guess that's good news.

Well...years ago, when Ted Kennedy announced he was running for the nomination for the presidency, he didn't mention Chappaquiddick.

You don't spoil your big announcement with a deal killer on the first day .

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I think you're right Ruined, titles won't have online authentication at launch but at some point some hot new movie will be released on it and will require a time-based key - and with people having already bought into the format, they're in no position to refuse if they want to play said hot new movie. The good thing that might come from that is if people really make a fuss, so the studios get the message and they leave such things off of future releases (it is optional, after all).

Could be that studios are waiting to see how the non-authentication copy protection goes, and if worse comes to worst (it usually does), then they can wheel out the online stuff.

Also I think it would have to be used for digital bridge. I just can't see how studios will let you make a 1:1 copy, leave it on your hard drive, and be able to sell off the disc. If the player playing the disc is not connected, then how will they know the disc and copy are not in two different places?

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by Dex Robinson

Well...years ago, when Ted Kennedy announced he was running for the nomination for the presidency, he didn't mention Chappaquiddick.

You don't spoil your big announcement with a deal killer on the first day .

Of course not. I wonder if it's possible that they are not telling us because they don't know yet either (they are still negotiating with the studios).

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

Could be that studios are waiting to see how the non-authentication copy protection goes, and if worse comes to worst (it usually does), then they can wheel out the online stuff.

Also I think it would have to be used for digital bridge. I just can't see how studios will let you make a 1:1 copy, leave it on your hard drive, and be able to sell off the disc. If the player playing the disc is not connected, then how will they know the disc and copy are not in two different places?

Sure, it goes without saying that the digital bridge will have an online authentication component. In my head I was thinking purely of playback of the discs themselves.

[Geoff D]

Speaking of which, just how WILL they manage the digital bridge though? Will we need to run the disc through the same player every so often to reaffirm to the server that we still own it, which in turn would keep the copied versions 'active'? (Though one could just rent or borrow someone else's disc, providing the encryption isn't disc-specific.) Or will the copied versions have a built-in shelf life? So many questions.....and even though having a legit 1:1 ISO sitting on a hard drive that you could just plug and play would be cool as ****, it's gonna be a nightmare to implement and keep safe. Sounds like more trouble than it's worth IMO.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Speaking of which, just how WILL they manage the digital bridge though? Will we need to run the disc through the same player every so often to reaffirm to the server that we still own it, which in turn would keep the copied versions 'active'? (Though one could just rent or borrow someone else's disc, providing the encryption isn't disc-specific.) Or will the copied versions have a built-in shelf life? So many questions.....and even though having a legit 1:1 ISO sitting on a hard drive that you could just plug and play would be cool as ****, it's gonna be a nightmare to implement and keep safe. Sounds like more trouble than it's worth IMO.

That's what I'm trying to wrap my head around as well. It would seem that any disc that will allow copying to a DB hard drive will HAVE TO require some kind of online authentication. Don't see any way around that. With two identical master copies floating around, they have to keep track of both. Obviously they can keep track of the copy, since that will require an online connection to play, but what about the disc? Doesn't do any good to track one but not the other.

So it could be that the studios are using DB as excuse to get online authentication on board. There's no way for it to work without it (clue me in if I'm wrong). And since it is very convenient, it means it's something "essential" to the format (in their thinking) since convenience is what consumers gravitate towards. Introducing another disc format with no convenience advantage doesn't make sense to them. So they insist on DB and the online stuff that go along with it.

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

That's what I'm trying to wrap my head around as well. It would seem that any disc that will allow copying to a DB hard drive will HAVE TO require some kind of online authentication. Don't see any way around that. With two identical master copies floating around, they have to keep track of both. Obviously they can keep track of the copy, since that will require an online connection to play, but what about the disc? Doesn't do any good to track one but not the other.

Unless the authentication is done locally and is specifically tied to a hardware device ID (NAS, UHD BD player, etc). From an online authentication perspective, they could tie it to an account similar to the way iTunes does for their digital copies.