UHD Blu-ray Disc Authentication Poll

[Wendell R. Breland]

Does anyone know if the Constrained Image flag that was defined in the original BD spec, which requires analog outputs to display no more than 960x540 real pixels, was ever used? If true, what titles?

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Does anyone know if the Constrained Image flag that was defined in the original BD spec, which requires analog outputs to display no more than 960x540 real pixels, was ever used? If true, what titles?

I think what happened was they stopped making players with component video outs and the ones that had them were key updated out of existence when the companies stopped supporting them with new firmware.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

I think what happened was they stopped making players with component video outs and the ones that had them were key updated out of existence when the companies stopped supporting them with new firmware.

Constrained Image flag support was required from day one in the BD hardware but apparently not a single title was released with the flag set.

According to AACS Managed Copy was required from day one but not a single title has ever been released with it.

POINT: Disc Authentication is required in the UHD BD hardware but it may never be used.

IMO, IF they ever implement the copy feature on a title then they would use Disc Authentication and make you agree to their TOS for that title. For that title all you would have is a license to view the content. Not sure how they plan to track who has what and where and enforce the TOS. Otherwise folks will purchase a managed copy title, copy it and turnaround and sell the physical copy.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

“Time Based Release of Keys (Correction Keys) – Operational improvement. Prevents a new release from playing until the street date. Optional for content owners, but must be supported in players”.

Bruce Turnbull Co-Manager, AACS LA, LLC

The only use of the time based key that has been noted in documents is to prevent a new release from playing prior to street date. I have mentioned other potential uses of time based keys but I haven’t found anything official about other uses...

agree, but for the same reason that you could make up crazy examples that could never work (like making a disk copy that only works on the reviewers player) it does not make sense for an intelligent person to put on blinders and assume it just means a simple street date.

For example if title T from studio S has street dates X in the US, Y in the UK and never in Australia (different studio), it would work with what you quoted if it forces someone that buys a copy and tries playing it in the US for it to start playing on date X and someone in the UK on date Y and in Australia never (make the guy buy the copy from the Australian distributor.)

and none of that needs anything complicated.

and people should not act stupid ,pulling the plug on something (even if without bad intent) will be problematic. Formats die, it is crazy to assume that the studios will continue to maintain the service when it happens. Some bean counter will realize "we have not sold a copy of the film in a while, why are we still paying to have the title available on the server. Do you think if a title is sold to a different studio the new owner would not rather make the money? All of this is simple and basic reality. Plugs have been pulled on dead formats, movies have go OOP, a couple of days ago Miramax and their 700 catalogue titles were sold to BeIN Media http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/new...a-group-872230......

none of these are made up or assume alternate realities.

Regarding the sentence that I “inadvertently” missed: “In prior exemption proceedings, the Register and Librarian have recognized that there is no unqualified right to access a work on a particular device.”

That sentence supports what I quoted, so why include it?

maybe but it means much more and there in lies the issue. For slysoft it might mean that but

It means that you have no right to play the disc on anything other than a properly licensed player. The linked document I posted was a response to a request for an exemption from that requirement. You can read the applicable circumvention code


https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/17/1201

no your interpretation is wrong. If that was the case then it would have said so.

The reason it discusses no unqualified rights while not distinguishing between licensed and unlicensed is the key. It is saying

1)you have no right to play the disc on an un-licensed player (like you said and only important for pirates)
2) you can't assume you have the right to play the disc on a licensed player. (important for none-pirates and none-idiots)

The issue is that you decided to call a disk "broken" and pretend it means that if the day (week......)after street day it does not play anymore it should be treated like a disk that has disk rot. But it is the opposite. The reason a studio is allowed to add DRM to the disk to stop it from playing the day before the street is the same reason that it can't be considered broken if the title key is no longer available and it does not play the day after street, and so unlike disk rot or a scratch this is a DRM issue and the studio has protection but the consumer does not.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Constrained Image flag support was required from day one in the BD hardware but apparently not a single title was released with the flag set.

According to AACS Managed Copy was required from day one but not a single title has ever been released with it.

POINT: Disc Authentication is required in the UHD BD hardware but it may never be used.

agree, the only difference is that for the rest of what you talk about none of it mattered.

for example let's look at ICT. There are three scenarios
1) HDMI to HDTV. ICT is irrelevant (only for analogue)
2) analogue to SDTV the constrained resolution is still higher then SD resolution so the reasons someone with SD would want to buy a BD player and disks still remains.
3) analogue to HDTV, first analogue is never allowed for 1080p so it is the type of person that is ready OK with a downgraded image. Second even with ICT on the person can still watch the film with higher resolution then a DVD and BD audio all he loses on is instead of 1920x 540 pixels per interlaced frame (1080i) he has 960x540.(still>720x480=DVD resolution)


If this is used it is completely different if everything goes right you can watch the film while if only one of many things go wrong you can't watch the UHD BD and all you have is an unplayable useless disk.

that is why you have 4 different views on this

1) the idiot: "nothing ever goes wrong so who cares"
2) the gambler: "it does not matter at worst I wasted the cost of the UHD BD , why should it stop me"
3) the hedger: " I will search on-line to find out what disks use this and avoid them"
4) the none-player: "If you can't watch the film what good is buying it? I will just avoid the format"

IMO, IF they ever implement the copy feature on a title then they would use Disc Authentication and make you agree to their TOS for that title. For that title all you would have is a license to view the content. Not sure how they plan to track who has what and where and enforce the TOS. Otherwise folks will purchase a managed copy title, copy it and turnaround and sell the physical copy.

agree, but that is not what is being discussed. In AACS 1.0 every disk had to have a disk title that the studio paid for and got from AACS. That title is necessary for the disk to play and it was necessary for it to be on the disk on BD. In AACS 2.0 that disk title does not need to be on the disk but can be on a server on the internet. So in order for these new disks to work the player needs to go on the internet get the OK from the AACS server and DL the title key before it can play the movie and you can watch the film.

The title key is the exact same one for every disk out there. There is no way to use this in conjunction with MC to make sure that people don't sell the disk.

[DavePS3]

I think it's a fatal mistake for all to assume physical media is no longer vital or desired. I prefer having whatever I want, when I want. No internet connection? Don't care. Server down? Doesn't matter. Tidal etc., despite having a decent library available still lacks artists or albums I search for. I think the level of laziness we have achieved as a species is at an all time high. We used to be astounded at the concept of having our own library of music or movies and all we had to do, was to get up off of our asses and swap out a disc in the player. We were amazed that we could place a phone call from a small device in our pockets and we continue to embrace every new bit of technology that allows us to physically do less.

No one acknowledges each other in the street any longer, we're all in our own little world of earbuds, compressed MP3 music and ripping each other apart over the internet because no one knows where we are or who we are. We have become insensitive, overly self important egotistical beings who no longer care about the other guy or girl. We are watched, logged and recorded by services we don't know exist that will stick to us like a cancer for the rest of our lives. ...and we don't seem to be bothered by it.

My point is, that the more technology allows us to pull further away from each other, the worse humanity gets... the deeper we fall into ourselves and the more we feed into our own quirks. We shut ourselves in, refuse an outstretched hand and deny compensation to the artists, musicians, game developers who make our lives better. We seem to have this twisted sense of entitlement that pushes us to cheat, rip off and attain for free just because we can. We need to get back to respecting each others work and more importantly, ourselves. Not out of ego but rather out of a simple sense of right and wrong because we know the difference... we need to stop ignoring it. Just sayin'...

[I KEEL YOU]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

POINT: Disc Authentication is required in the UHD BD hardware but it may never be used.

One of those two words is way more clear and definitive than the other.

Originally Posted by Anthony P

So in order for these new disks to work the player needs to go on the internet get the OK from the AACS server and DL the title key before it can play the movie and you can watch the film.

ANY required Internet connectivity is like poison to me, and it ultimately makes me distrust the format. Ultimately, required internet connectivity means a bunch of coasters and a glorified paper weight for your discs and player down the line.

[Wendell R. Breland]

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

ANY required Internet connectivity is like poison to me, and it ultimately makes me distrust the format.

My position has always been no First Sale Doctrine protection = no sale to me. IMO, disc requiring online authentication would not be covered by the FSD and the packaging would have to clearly state you are purchasing a license to view the content and a internet connection is required.