4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

[raygendreau]

Do any of you really believe that a poll or comments on this forum are going to in any way affect what the content creators, copyright owners and their protectors do in their continuing efforts to reduce piracy?

What you should be doing is offering suggestions and recommendations on how to help them address the problem. They will definitely listen to that.

http://www.antipiracycontentsummit.c...FZGTfgod_XkA7Q

[FilmFreakosaurus]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

Do any of you really believe that a poll or comments on this forum are going to in any way affect what the content creators, copyright owners and their protectors do in their continuing efforts to reduce piracy?

What you should be doing is offering suggestions and recommendations on how to help them address the problem. They will definitely listen to that.

http://www.antipiracycontentsummit.c...FZGTfgod_XkA7Q

These new measures are not about reducing piracy.

[Dex Robinson]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

What you should be doing is offering suggestions and recommendations on how to help them address the problem. They will definitely listen to that.

Ha,ha!

And do you really believe that?

This isn't complicated.

Money talks. That's what content providers listen to.

Those content providers can either give me a reason to buy their product or they can give me a reason NOT to buy their product.

Anything that requires me to connect to the 'net when I buy a disc is a reason for me NOT to buy their product. They don't want my suggestions...they want my money. And I'm perfectly willing to give them my money as long as they don't screw up their shiny new format with crap that I won't deal with.

[harpolini]

Has there been any speculation/wishful thinking about bonus features that will be native to 4k discs? I would love to see something new brought to the medium.

It will never happen, but I think it would be awesome if there was a "projectionist mode/menu" where you could view the entire camera negative and crop to your preference with guidance from a projectionist note. It would forever end the "incorrect OAR" debates. Plus I always love finding online old notes to the projectionist from directions like Kubrick, Lynch or Anderson.

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

And in the DVD CSS comment you see a similar response, prepared by the same two law firms and attorneys that prepared the AACS comment.

Yeah, I noticed that one seemed to be a regurgitation of the other. Back in the day, there was no way that the studios would have made that argument but now that Blu-ray is here they seem to be OK with circumventing the encryption for DVD. Since UHD BD is going to be here, using that same logic, then why not be OK with the circumvention of the Blu-ray encryption.

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

Do any of you really believe that a poll or comments on this forum are going to in any way affect what the content creators, copyright owners and their protectors do in their continuing efforts to reduce piracy?

What you should be doing is offering suggestions and recommendations on how to help them address the problem. They will definitely listen to that.

http://www.antipiracycontentsummit.c...FZGTfgod_XkA7Q

The problem isn't with the discs, Sony has already admitted that their movies are being made available online before physical media is even released. What the studios need to do is have better control of the process and distribution of their digital material that will be used for creating online streams and physical discs.

[dublinbluray108]

I do have an issue with regular blu-ray players not having access to the internet because my only player which is a Toshiba BDX1500 does not Wi-Fi access from an ISP at my home address to even go onto Digital Bridge or online authentication.

If that function is going to become accessible via a firmware upgrade in regular blu-ray how can people access Blu-ray with that problem? Would it mean that their current blu-ray player will become obsolete to the point that any new regular blu-ray that is purchased in a store it will require internet access from now on from a new player?

That is another headache that the movie studios and the manufacturers must try to tackle immediately. I would be of the opinion that if the studios were to limit access to regular and 3D blu-ray players to online only then the format will fail instantly. And we as physical item collectors do not want to see that happen in the future when 4K blu-ray players are released to the public.

I don't want to contend with the situation that the blu-ray that I only purchased last year will become within a few months. Because that will make me so pissed in buying future titles on the format that it will be a very costly decision which will cost me big time as I don't have high speed internet to keep the player with a constant online connection. It will be a horrible scenario in which I should not have to put up with because it will harmonise trade of the format to which the studios will lose a big chunk of their profits in physical media and will go instead to digital. Going digital at this time is still not guaranteed to content providers regular income from sales because the majority of sales will be much smaller than physical media.

Also the facilities in digital media could be very limited in choice because the only way they can watch it is a small device that degrades the enjoyment factor in a huge way.

Physical sales are an instant sale that give studios instant revenue. Internet sales via digital movies and TV shows must also be instant in every country throughout the world in order to become popular worldwide and must have a good reputation to combat piracy and eradicate it completely and clearly we don't have that accessibility in where people can have the controls to combat it or to entirely get rid of it.

Physical still trumps over digital because it is a guaranteed format to generate consumer demand and guaranteed ownership of the disc for life. With digital those guarantees are lost and are not given back once you pay for it.

[Coenskubrick]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

“The technology is evolving to the point where people want to use full motion video on their iPads, iPhones, laptops, and other digital devices and share the files across their networks. They don’t want to be exposed to copyright infringement so they’re looking for a secure means to obtain the rights to use it,” Kenneally says. “When people have an easy, convenient lawful way to pay for the use of copyrighted material, this discourages piracy. The fact that CCC has paid out $1.3 billion in royalties to rights holders in just the last 10 years kind of proves the case.”

Well, if the Digital Bridge implementation is to provide such a code to allow the transfer of the files to other devices ONLY, then perhaps it will do a little to stop piracy (not necessarily lost revenue though as if a person buys a disc and pirates it for their ipad, the studios are not going to get any more money from digital bridge, and a pirated copy still has fewer limitations). This is already available with digital copies, but the system is apparently pretty frustrating so perhaps digital bridge will be simpler and thus encourage people more.

However, the authentication to play the disc in the first place aspect, that would do nothing to stop piracy and would only make it harder for people purchasing legit copies.

[Ray O. Blu]

Originally Posted by apples-n-oranges

the problem is SONY WILLFULLY MAKES BLU-RAY DISC LOOK LIKE CRAP, SO THEY CAN FOOL GULLIBLE IDIOTS INTO THINKING DIGITAL LOOKS AND BETTER

When did that start?

Sony Blu-ray's PQ has always been one of the consistently highest-rated on this sites reviews.

[bailey1987]

Originally Posted by harpolini

Has there been any speculation/wishful thinking about bonus features that will be native to 4k discs? I would love to see something new brought to the medium.

It will never happen, but I think it would be awesome if there was a "projectionist mode/menu" where you could view the entire camera negative and crop to your preference with guidance from a projectionist note. It would forever end the "incorrect OAR" debates. Plus I always love finding online old notes to the projectionist from directions like Kubrick, Lynch or Anderson.

I can see all players having a GPU like the NVIDIA K1 or X1 in them, BD Live is an all around disappointment on current Blu-ray's but then again I'm not too bother because the idea of the features not being included on the disc doesn't float with me anyway so it can stay as it is. I can also see game pads being released like the NVIDIA shield. If that doesn't happen for Ultra HD Blu-ray then it will probably happen on a future format.

[I KEEL YOU]

Originally Posted by raygendreau

Do any of you really believe that a poll or comments on this forum are going to in any way affect what the content creators

Well, if they do, then they are seriously delusional. The major studios aren't stupid: They know that there is a big chunk of the market that will be upset about this. They know that they will have to take a financial hit in order to push this DRM agenda, and they're bracing themselves for it.

They also know that there is a big difference between someone on Internet saying that they won't buy something as a way of protest and them actually not buying it when the products hit the shelves.

The sad truth is that if the studios stand united behind DRM, there is little we can do about it. I was leaning towards buying Xbox One, but when DRM was announced for that console, I said bye to Microsoft and switched to PS4. There isn't really an alternative like this in this case, other than not buying UHD discs at all, which is a way more drastic step than switching to a rival product.

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

They also know that there is a big difference between someone on Internet saying that they won't buy something as a way of protest and them actually not buying it when the products hit the shelves.

True, but there was not much enthusiasm about UHD BD in general on the this site (outside of of this thread). Many people in the movie threads said they were fine with regular BD, don't want to bother upgrading yet again already, and that they are not going to see much improvement in UHD BD on their flat panels (as I would argue with them about that - as they were not understanding the benefits of better compression, 10 bit, and DCI aside from the resolution part of it). Now, throwing this authentication thing into the mix makes it much easier for people to say no with certainty, or those people who might have been on the fence to now say no; in addition to people like me who were totally for it, but now will not buy it even when it hits the shelf. I really see no chance at all of UHD BD if studios go forward with this. I'm not even sure it could launch, but if it does, it will die rather quickly. Even before learning about this authentication, I had my doubts about UHD BD's survival.

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

Well, if they do, then they are seriously delusional. The major studios aren't stupid: They know that there is a big chunk of the market that will be upset about this. They know that they will have to take a financial hit in order to push this DRM agenda, and they're bracing themselves for it.

They also know that there is a big difference between someone on Internet saying that they won't buy something as a way of protest and them actually not buying it when the products hit the shelves.

The sad truth is that if the studios stand united behind DRM, there is little we can do about it. I was leaning towards buying Xbox One, but when DRM was announced for that console, I said bye to Microsoft and switched to PS4. There isn't really an alternative like this in this case, other than not buying UHD discs at all, which is a way more drastic step than switching to a rival product.

You have to draw the line somewhere otherwise they'll never get the message and they'll continue to propose such nonsense. I guess if it comes down to online title key delivery then I'll just have to continue with standard BD. If some titles come with the title key on the disc then I'll limit myself to only those titles. Yes, it will be a sacrifice but sacrifices sometimes have to be made.

As you can see, I've invested quite a bit into the previous formats and no, I don't mean investment as in financial gain but rather entertainment enjoyment. I won't make that kind of investment if and when a format or technology requires online authentication.

Adobe recently went to a subscription method where you only license the software and you have to pay a monthly or annual fee to continue to use that product. Suffice to say, I won't be purchasing or upgrading any more Adobe products. I'll continue to use the existing products I currently have that don't require this model. When those no longer work I'll move on to some other vendor.

[Dex Robinson]

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

...There isn't really an alternative like this in this case, other than not buying UHD discs at all...

And that is a common and powerful alternative.

NOT buying a product is EXACTLY how markets are shaped.

Consumers are in control. The problem for those who might* produce UHD BD is that it is not something that most people need. There is very little enthusiasm for it outside of a tiny hardcore of videophiles. For many people, the continued purchase of BDs is a perfectly acceptable alternative. For much more of the general population, streaming and dowloading are reasonable alternatives.

Physical media is a shrinking market...that's hardly a newsflash. If content producers want to sell UHD BDs, they need to give us a reason to buy them. They need to sell the product.

The truth is, if consumers don't want online DRM, there is little that the content producers can do about it...other than remove their onerous DRM scheme.

Anybody who believes that content producers can call the shots on this is seriously delusional.

There's a huge group of non-committed, casual disc buyers who just need ONE more reason to stop buying discs and switch to streaming. If UHD BD producers give them that reason, they will never buy UHD BD and they will never miss it.



* I say "might" produce UHD BD because, as of today, UHD BD is still an undefined possibility.

[I KEEL YOU]

Originally Posted by Dex Robinson

And that is a common and powerful alternative.

NOT buying a product is EXACTLY how markets are shaped.

Consumers are in control. The problem for those who might* produce UHD BD is that it is not something that most people need. There is very little enthusiasm for it outside of a tiny hardcore of videophiles. For many people, the continued purchase of BDs is a perfectly acceptable alternative. For much more of the general population, streaming and dowloading are reasonable alternatives.

Physical media is a shrinking market...that's hardly a newsflash. If content producers want to sell UHD BDs, they need to give us a reason to buy them. They need to sell the product.

The truth is, if consumers don't want online DRM, there is little that the content producers can do about it...other than remove their onerous DRM scheme.

Anybody who believes that content producers can call the shots on this is seriously delusional.

There's a huge group of non-committed, casual disc buyers who just need ONE more reason to stop buying discs and switch to streaming. If UHD BD producers give them that reason, they will never buy UHD BD and they will never miss it.



* I say "might" produce UHD BD because, as of today, UHD BD is still an undefined possibility.

Sure, if no one bought DRMed UHD discs, then the studios would obviously have to make some kind of move. The problem and gamble for the fan of physical media is that that move very well might not turn out to be going from DRMed UHD discs to non-DRMed UHD discs (which is what most here assume would be the consequence of no one buying DRM UHD discs), but an abandonment of physical media all together.

[Kirsty_Mc]

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

Sure, if no one bought DRMed UHD discs, then the studios would obviously have to make some kind of move. The problem and gamble for the fan of physical media is that that move very well might not turn out to be going from DRMed UHD discs to non-DRMed UHD discs (which is what most here assume would be the consequence of no one buying DRM UHD discs), but an abandonment of physical media all together.

The problem with that model is that not everyone lives in a city with high speed broadband. In rural areas this is a problem. Streaming UHD video would be problematic to say the least. If they moved to a streaming only business model, then they would have to write off whole sections of society, some quite affluent.

This is where physical media comes into its own.

As regards alternatives to UHD-Blu-Ray, there will be an alternative... The black market. Wouldn't it be silly to waste the money it takes to produce content by saddling it with onerous DRM, only to push your customers into the hands of the Pirates. They won't make much money that way.

[PenguinMaster]

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

Sure, if no one bought DRMed UHD discs, then the studios would obviously have to make some kind of move. The problem and gamble for the fan of physical media is that that move very well might not turn out to be going from DRMed UHD discs to non-DRMed UHD discs (which is what most here assume would be the consequence of no one buying DRM UHD discs), but an abandonment of physical media all together.

It's ridiculous to state that we have to support all physical media (even with DRM) so the studios won't stop offering physical media. Discs with DRM and downloads/streaming with DRM have the same fundamental problems. In both cases the studios retain full control over whether anyone can watch their content. If all the available physical media has DRM then it's barely better than downloads and streaming anyway so we've already lost.

I don't see any chance of UHD's success or failure causing a downfall of all physical media. If UHD has DRM then I will continue to buy Blu-ray. Regardless of the difference in picture and audio quality physical media without DRM will always trump everything else.

[Dex Robinson]

The overwhelming number of consumers never bought into Blu-ray. Depending on how you interpret the math, sales still favor DVD by about 70% to 30%.

The fact that Blu-ray never really captured the market did not cause studios abandon DVD. On the contrary, they have continued to cling to DVD with annoying tenacity. This is, again, surely a financial decisions based on the reality that DVD is the biggest physical media money maker for home video.

I'm sure the studios have already figured out that UHD BD won't be a significant money maker. if it comes to market, it will be a premium quality loss-leader to push people into a range of 4K products. I think they hope UHD BD will likely skim the top 20% or so of the BD market where it will give legitimacy to 4K services and 4K TVs.

There are certainly things that threaten the market for physical media but I doubt if the success (or lack thereof) of UHD BD is one of them.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by Dex Robinson

The overwhelming number of consumers never bought into Blu-ray. Depending on how you interpret the math, sales still favor DVD by about 70% to 30%.

The fact that Blu-ray never really captured the market did not cause studios abandon DVD. On the contrary, they have continued to cling to DVD with annoying tenacity. This is, again, surely a financial decisions based on the reality that DVD is the biggest physical media money maker for home video.

I'm sure the studios have already figured out that UHD BD won't be a significant money maker. if it comes to market, it will be a premium quality loss-leader to push people into a range of 4K products. I think they hope UHD BD will likely skim the top 20% or so of the BD market where it will give legitimacy to 4K services and 4K TVs.

There are certainly things that threaten the market for physical media but I doubt if the success (or lack thereof) of UHD BD is one of them.

And this scenario (lousy BD penetration) is exactly what makes DRM more likely. The studios have nothing to lose. They will be doing this for other (hardware) companies. IF online DRM becomes reality then UHD BD will be a digital format. Just a simple download on disc. If it fails becomes sales are too low to justify print runs and retailer shelf space, then those download will just have to be accessed through time-consuming and costly bandwidth. I think the digital bridge feature will always be there whether UHD on disc succeeds or not. I also envision that will DB we'll be able to download UHD BD quality movies that aren't viable to print on disc. Anyway will be interesting to see what happens.

[rdodolak]

Sales still favor DVD because the majority of people are choosing what they perceive to be the lowest priced option for physical media. However, it also doesn't surprise me that 70% of the sales are DVD related when MPAA member studios report:

For example, in 2014, nearly 5,000 feature film and
television titles were released on DVD, while fewer than 1,500 titles were released on Blu-ray.

http://copyright.gov/1201/2015/comme..._1201_2014.pdf

http://copyright.gov/1201/2015/comments-032715/

Thus less than 30% of all content released in 2014 was released on Blu-ray. The other 70% was DVD only and thus part of the reason for higher DVD sales when compared to Blu-ray; you can't buy what isn't made available.

But what I find more peculiar is that the studios continue to offer a lesser quality product, that is SD (DVD), when HD has become the de facto standard and now they're getting ready to introduce UHD. When HD televisions were first introduced there was obviously some transition period where SD and HD televisions existed. However, the television market has long transitioned to HD sets, discontinuing SD models, and cable services have been abandoning their SD content. Yet, with physical media the studios continue to provide and push an inferior product (SD DVD) when only HD televisions can be purchased. It was one thing when consumers were watching SD content on SD sets but now we've taken a step back and are watching SD content on HD sets. Before we know it we'll be watching SD content on UHD sets and for every one step forward we're taking two steps back. Once manufacturers fully shift to UHD only televisions are the studios still going to stick with providing SD content; seems kind of silly to me?

The studios have half-a**ed their support for Blu-ray so it's no surprise that Blu-ray has sold less when compared to DVD.