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Old 08-12-2015, 01:01 PM   #3281
NeonStreetMelt NeonStreetMelt is offline
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Ok, so it's just a couple weeks from September and I'm still waiting to see one single official or leaked ad, announcement, anything, that confirms 4k/UHD players and/or titles. Got myself one of the newer 4k sets and am holding off buying many blu rays with concern they'll get released in 4k within the next year and I thought this was supposed to start rolling out at the end of the year...? Are we looking at early 2016 at this point? Wouldn't the studios and player manufacturers need to get the marketing ball rolling now to build momentum towards the holiday season? Is it going to be 12/31 and I still won't be able to get a player and any movies?

I did see the story off this forum about 5th element and Professional getting 4k remastered regular blu ray releases...so people think they'll be early full 4k releases...but when?
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Old 08-12-2015, 01:14 PM   #3282
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Old 08-12-2015, 02:16 PM   #3283
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bailey1987 View Post
I get the same feeling. As for other studios films I'm putting money now on Universal releasing U-571 close to launch if not at launch.

edit:

looking at the covers for the films I can't say much for them I would much rather the full space be taken up by the artwork.
Apollo 13 likely. Maybe even The Breakfast Club.

Goodfellas from Warner I am guessing.
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Old 08-12-2015, 02:56 PM   #3284
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NeonStreetMelt View Post
. . . am holding off buying many blu rays with concern they'll get released in 4k within the next year and I thought this was supposed to start rolling out at the end of the year...?
+1

As much as I love Fury Road, I'm trying to behave and refrain. Excruciating.
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Old 08-12-2015, 03:05 PM   #3285
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Originally Posted by NeonStreetMelt View Post
I thought this was supposed to start rolling out at the end of the year...?
I'm not optimistic either, but the BDA was saying as late as a week ago that the plan is still to have something on store shelves before the end of the year. The BDA and company seem determined to avoid saying anything of substance prior to IFA in Berlin early next month, so I guess we'll have a clearer picture then. If they do manage to get something out this calendar year, I'm guessing it'll just be one or two clunky, overpriced players and a tiny handful of titles that don't fully take advantage of what the format has to offer, with the "real" launch coming a few months later. That was the story for DVD, HD DVD, and Blu-ray, anyway, and I'm guessing that UHD BD won't be any different.
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Old 08-12-2015, 03:16 PM   #3286
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My thoughts exactly. If they're lucky with the timing then there'll be a soft launch with a few players and a small number of titles in the US this year, while the rest of the world will just have to wait for the proper launch in the spring of 2016, hopefully with updated hardware (as what happened with HD DVD, the Euro launch was spearheaded by the 2nd gen decks).
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Old 08-12-2015, 03:51 PM   #3287
Paul.R.S Paul.R.S is offline
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Originally Posted by sonicyogurt View Post
The BDA and company seem determined to avoid saying anything of substance prior to IFA in Berlin early next month, so I guess we'll have a clearer picture then.
Just curious: Did someone (with the BDA?) say that they would have additional information at IFA? Or are you (like me) just expressing a hope that that is what's going to happen?

Anyone: What's the history in these format launch situations of the convention of choice for announcements? IFA versus CEDIA versus CES?
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Old 08-12-2015, 03:56 PM   #3288
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Originally Posted by Paul.R.S View Post
Or are you (like me) just expressing a hope that that is what's going to happen?
Honestly, there's been so much talk about UHD BD being fully unveiled at IFA this year that I just took it for granted that it'll happen. Nosing around, I don't seem to be able to find anything directly from the BDA about UHD BD at IFA. The initial UHD BD announcement was made at IFA last year, though, so it would make sense.
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Old 08-12-2015, 06:12 PM   #3289
NeonStreetMelt NeonStreetMelt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Paul.R.S View Post
+1

As much as I love Fury Road, I'm trying to behave and refrain. Excruciating.
I can't wait on that one. Saw it in theaters before I got my 70" 4k. I love that movie. I need that movie. If they'd go ahead and announce a prior to Jan 2016 release date for a 4k release I might be able to wait. I'd planned on getting the 4 movie box set of the 3 original Mad Max films and Fury Road. I do hope Fury is one of the early 4k releases and I'll just re-buy it when it does.
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Old 08-12-2015, 06:18 PM   #3290
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I'm not as concerned as I was in the past about UBD's future, but I am anxiously awaiting something tangible in relation to it.

Sound is one of my concerns, will it see anything in addition to ATMOS and DTS X for example?

I hope that even if the audio codecs are ATMOS and DTS X that they see any improvement possible, just because, why not? I'm wondering if the bitrate and sampling frequency could improve.
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Old 08-12-2015, 06:18 PM   #3291
NeonStreetMelt NeonStreetMelt is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sonicyogurt View Post
If they do manage to get something out this calendar year, I'm guessing it'll just be one or two clunky, overpriced players and a tiny handful of titles that don't fully take advantage of what the format has to offer, with the "real" launch coming a few months later. That was the story for DVD, HD DVD, and Blu-ray, anyway, and I'm guessing that UHD BD won't be any different.
Thanks for the info about that upcoming event. Your logic seems sound that some sort of additional info will be released next month. I prefer to be more optimistic about the roll out of UHD as I don't want to spend heavily early on and then have to get a new player or re-buy any 4k discs. I've been a late adopter of past formats, both DVD and Blu-ray and never had to re-buy a player and have rarely double dipped on titles.
Haven't these hardware manufacturers and movie studios learned anything from the roll out of prior formats so UHD's release is better and smoother? Also DVD was a huge paradigm shift from VHS, and HD DVD and Blu Ray a significant shift from standard DVD...but this time they're going from one kind of Blu Ray, to another kind of Blu Ray...I like to think that means the players won't be ridiculously expensive, will work properly, and the discs are well authored and will have great transfers that do showcase the format...I mean, they've been working with Blu Ray for years now and have had UHD in the works for awhile. I'll pay $500 and down for a good Sony player and up to 49.99 per UHD disc. Anything above that and many like myself will find themselves priced out of the market.
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Old 08-12-2015, 06:19 PM   #3292
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Originally Posted by NeonStreetMelt View Post
I can't wait on that one. Saw it in theaters before I got my 70" 4k. I love that movie. I need that movie. If they'd go ahead and announce a prior to Jan 2016 release date for a 4k release I might be able to wait. I'd planned on getting the 4 movie box set of the 3 original Mad Max films and Fury Road. I do hope Fury is one of the early 4k releases and I'll just re-buy it when it does.
Fury Road was shot in 2,8K, not in 4k. So it will not be a huge improvement.
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Old 08-12-2015, 06:26 PM   #3293
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The Fifth Element
Ah, memories of a mastering practices milestone in video. That ^ title has history . It being thee movie, of all others, which precipitated the concept/movement of bringing consumer grade flat panels (instead of, up until then, only using CRTs exclusively) into the mastering suites of both studio lot based and independent post production facilities.

As mentioned back in Dec. 2007 in a summary by the Editor of American Cinematographer Magazine recounting the work of the ASC (American Society of Cinematographers) Technology Committee over the course of 2007, for the Cliff notes version, I’ve bolded the pertinent paragraphs for peoples’ convenience……

Tomorrow's Technology

ASC Tech Committee Update

The ASC Technology Committee made significant headway this year. Foremost, after two years in development in the Digital Intermediate Subcommittee, the ASC Color Decision List (CDL) version 1.0 is in the process of being published for open implementation. "Acceptance has been pretty much ubiquitous throughout the industry," notes Curtis Clark, ASC, chair of the Technology Committee. "This truly is a cross-platform data-exchange mechanism for RGB, lift, gain and gamma primary color corrections, although we have renamed lift, gain and gamma to offset, slope and power, respectively, to better define those three functions."

The CDL is a way to move basic color-correction information between applications, meaning image "looks" can be maintained throughout the post process. Through collaboration with vendors, the selected methods of transport for CDL information are via XML, CMX comment field, ALE and Flex files. At the National Association of Broadcasters (NAB) Expo last April, a number of companies were already touting CDLcompliant systems.

Not bad for a five-year-old group of volunteers from various sectors of the motion-picture and television industry.

As the Technology Committee proactively addresses digital/film issues that arise with emerging digital technologies, other organizations have taken note. The Producers Guild of America formed its own technology group and is collaborating closely with the ASC's Workflow Subcommittee to address that aspect of the technology revolution.

"We're not necessarily looking to optimize the infrastructure of your SAN [storage area network] or deal with those kinds of IT issues," Clark remarks. "The ASC CDL is the linchpin of our approach because we're looking at ways we can help facilitate maximum control over creative input from cinematographers, directors and production designers and ensure that the integrity of those image 'look reference' parameters are maintained throughout the workflow. The ASC CDL functionality also provides a more accessible and flexible opportunity for cinematographers to monitor and effect any look reference changes that might take place at all stages of the workflow, per creative needs and requirements."

The Technology Committee recently formed a Previsualization Subcommittee, which will work in conjunction with the Art Directors Guild. "That subcommittee is charged with the task of understanding the growing importance of previz applications and how the cinematographer should be playing a role in their use," says Clark.

The producers' and art directors' guilds are participating in the ASC Camera Subcommittee's long-gestating Camera Assessment Series (CAS), a repeatable series of shots typical of motion pictures that are impartially designed to show the characteristics and performance of digital cameras available for use in cinema. The resulting library of standard footage from the cameras will be available to the members of the ASC and the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences so that filmmakers can make educated choices when choosing camera systems. CAS material will be refreshed as new camera and associated technologies are developed. The series is scheduled to begin in May 2008 and will involve camera manufacturers and rental houses, and it will be a companion to the Academy Sci-Tech Council's quantitative analyses of cameras. (The council has been taking scene-driven measurements of each camera to characterize behavior in numerically quantifiable ways.)

With the issues of digital cinema identified and standards largely in place, the Technology Committee is focusing on non-theatrical displays with the newly formed - and aptly titled Non-Theatrical Display Subcommittee. 'This plays into understanding the different characteristics of non-CRT [cathode ray tube] display devices that are proliferating in the HD world," Clark says, "and particularly what that means in reference to Blu-ray and HD-DVD, new platforms that could become the primary distribution medium for many films."

The venerable CRT is rapidly giving way to flat-screen hi-def technologies such as plasma, LCD (liquid crystal display), LED (light emitting diode), LCoS (liquid crystal on silicon) and Texas Instruments' DUP (digital light processing). And standard-definition DVD will be bowing out as Sony's Bluray and Toshiba's HD-DVD formats gain traction in the marketplace. Clark notes, "With the increased emphasis on enhanced resolution and drastically improved image quality over standarddef comes certain baggage that needs to be addressed in terms of the variances between different display devices and how that impacts the creative results the filmmaker had in mind. We discovered through Don Eklund at Sony that there were some serious artifacts showing up in the process of how the down-converts were being done to HD that were not seen on CRT monitors, and certainly not seen in standard-def. They are artifacts that got into the system at some point."

The longstanding benchmark for mastering, the industry-standard Sony BVM-D24E1WU 24" monitor, and CRTs in general had been disguising most of the down-convert artifacts because of the way in which the CRT creates an image. The new display technologies are showing the true down-conversions, digital warts and all. As noted by Eklund in the 2007 ASC Technology Committee Report for SMFTE Journal in June: "Under typical home viewing conditions, a growing number of consumers now have a day-to-day display that provides a more critical view of HD sources than what is in popular use in the facilities that master these sources."

A number of new technology displays, professional and consumergrade, are being evaluated by post facilities. Drawbacks to using consumer displays for mastering are:
1)the model phanges often, making it difficult to standardize;
2) a lack of professional signal format support and
3) the potential for variable performance within a particular model because consumer build specs aren't as stringent.


"[Non-theatrical display] is the new area of concern that is linked to trying to find ways to ensure that filmmakers' creative intent is realized all the way through to whatever platform it is released on," Clark points out. "For a lot Of this stuff, the train has already left the station, but it doesn't mean we should just throw our hands up in the air. We wouldn't have been able to influence the manufacturers at an earlier stage because we didn't understand the issues. I think there still is hope that some kind of influence can be brought to bear if ways are found for us to ameliorate the problem. It may even raise questions about the way certain material is shot."

The Advanced Imaging Subcommittee has been studying monitors with regard to trichromatic color systems like RGB and X'Y'Z', which define their primaries and color characteristics using xy coordinates (based on the 1931 CIE two-degree standard observer). All monitors are calibrated using xy measurements, but 1931 CIE contains known errors. Advanced Imaging has been analyzing whether these errors cause a particular set of CIE xy coordinates to represent different colors to different observers, thus affecting color matching. Complicating matters isthe personal factor: two people might see the same color differently.

Using Macbeth Color Checker charts and still images from the ASC Standard Evaluation Material, the subcommittee tested LCD and plasma flat-panel monitors (and the Sony BVM CRT) to see how well the displayed images matched from monitor to monitor, as well as to the source. Each display's spectral measurements (in CIE) were converted to trichromatic representations and then back to see what errors or out-of-gamut colors developed. The subcommittee is continuing to test and analyze this subject....
https://www.questia.com/read/1P3-139...w-s-technology



If anyone is interested and I’ve got more time at a later date, maybe I’ll pull and post that entire Non-Theatrical Display Subcommittee report from 2007, referenced above by the Editor, as it represented a watershed event in thinking beginning with testing consumer displays for evaluating the quality of HD masters.

Last edited by Penton-Man; 08-12-2015 at 06:34 PM. Reason: added emoticon
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Old 08-12-2015, 06:30 PM   #3294
Penton-Man Penton-Man is offline
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^
P.S.
So, one might ask, what’s some of the stuff the ASC’s UHDTV Subcommittee up to (evaluating) these days?

Answer: high dynamic range technology as applied to monitor displays.

Last edited by Penton-Man; 08-12-2015 at 06:39 PM. Reason: added the answer
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Old 08-12-2015, 11:23 PM   #3295
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No 4K BD players or movies are coming this year. I don't know why people still think they are. We would of heard about it by now. This is not something you randomly launch. It's needs a full blown press release with information on finalized specs, players, studio support, and titles being released. You know something like.......CES. Which i'm hearing might not even make it there either.
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Old 08-13-2015, 12:09 AM   #3296
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Fury Road was shot in 2,8K, not in 4k. So it will not be a huge improvement.
While 2.8K might not 4K, it's still almost double the pixels of 2K.

2048x1152 = 2359296
2880x1620 = 4665600
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Old 08-13-2015, 12:36 AM   #3297
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While 2.8K might not 4K, it's still almost double the pixels of 2K.

2048x1152 = 2359296
2880x1620 = 4665600
I think it would be interesting to take a 5 minute clip from The Revenant (6K source), and show to a group of people on a 4K display, and then a 2.8/3K display (I know, they don't exist). My guess is that unless they go up and inspect each pixel, that most people, even most of us, probably couldn't tell the difference.
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Old 08-13-2015, 03:23 AM   #3298
Penton-Man Penton-Man is offline
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No 4K BD players or movies are coming this year. I don't know why people still think they are....
https://blog.sony.com/press/blu-ray-...ra-hd-blu-ray/

I don’t think a few weeks on either side of Dec.31st is much of a big deal unless you’ve got money burning a hole in your pocket for a few select titles. The more important thing is whether or not the juice is worth the squeeze. And (from the great state of New York), it sure will look better than ‘VHS 4K’…..http://sportsvideo.org/main/blog/201....SCJD9NeC.dpuf

Stay with us Sap….



For as my grandma Emma would say….”Be patient and you will be rewarded”.
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Old 08-13-2015, 05:12 AM   #3299
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Originally Posted by Penton-Man View Post

I don’t think a few weeks on either side of Dec.31st is much of a big deal unless you’ve got money burning a hole in your pocket for a few select titles...
It's not a problem for dedicated movie fans but a delay can really throw cold-water on a product launch. About 25% of annual, personal spending takes place during the holiday season with more than a 50% jump in department store sales from November to December. The last Saturday before Xmas (apparently called "Super Saturday" now) is considered the end of the buyng season. Things then go on deep discount and the spring is an absolute black hole for consumer spending...people are paying their Xmas bills.

You can end up with a chicken and egg conundrum. Selling a big ticket UHD BD player in February becomes a very hard sell. If players aren't moving, there's a danger that studios won't be in a big hurry to pump out titles. the next big sales opportunity is the holiday 2016 season.

Unfortunately, launching a physical format is time sensitive. Missing this holiday season is almost like missing a year and the excitement level for shiny new discs is not likely to pick up much as time passes.
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Old 08-13-2015, 06:42 AM   #3300
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Originally Posted by Penton-Man View Post
So... are FX, FXX, ABC, Fox, ABC Family, Fox Sports, Fox News, ESPN 1/2/U/News, MLB Network, and SEC networks all going to make the inevitable switch from 720p to 1440p?

... pretty sure I missed some, but those I get on Comcast HD
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