8K discussion thread

[Blu-rayNut51]

Originally Posted by scwilli1

MicroLED will be more reasonably priced before 8K TVs become reasonably priced.

Actually, scwilli1, the opposite is going to occur, with 8k TVs hitting reasonable price levels MUCH more quickly than will happen with MicroLED.

Because most 8k TVs, so far, are LCD/LED backlit panels, and as we've seen over the years, achieving higher resolutions is easier to do with LCD panels than it is with any other flat panel technology. For example, more than 16 years ago, when the first LCD panels with 1080p resolution were introduced to the market, it took plasma manufacturers until 3 years after that, to finally up the resolution of high-def plasmas from 720p, to 1080p, to catch up with LCD.

And moving up to more recent times, look at the tremendous drops in the average prices for various sized 4k LCD flat panels, that we've seen in just the past 2 to 3 years.

Today, Samsung's lowest priced 75" 4k flat panel actually sells for less than Samsung's cheapest 75" 1080p flat panel sold for 3 years ago.

Early last month both Sam's Club and BJ's Wholesale Club were featuring a sale on the same model Samsung 75" 4k flat panel, which had the TV selling for an amazingly low price of $749.99. The price for that TV at those 2 retailers has since gone up to $899.99, but I was so stunned by that ultra-low $749.99 price that I was tempted to buy one for a guest room, even though the 7 flat panels we already have in the house are more than a bit too much!

[Robert Zohn]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

hey, we’ve got to get you retired, financially secure and living out here in thee O.C.

Not a bad idea! I'm born and raised in NY, but lived in Santa Barbara and Irvine for 11 years from 1975 - 1986 and loved it!

[Robert Zohn]

Here's one more tidbit of information that I announced at my CES panel discussion. At the 39:10 mark

39:10 mark on my Youtube video

I broke the news that on day 1 (June 10, 2020) of our 2020 TV Shootout we'll be evaluating, voting and announcing the winner of the premium 4K TVs.

On day 2 (June 11, 2020) we'll be evaluating, voting and announcing the winner of the premium 8K TVs. Also at the conclusion of day 2 we'll position the King of 4K TV butt next to the new King of 8K TV and then display test patterns, 4K HDR BD content on both TVs so they will have a the same content playing. Then we'll put in a USB stick with 4K video on the 4K King and the same content in 8K to the 8K TV.

This is prove to the world in a controlled environment with well respected video experts and the video enthusiasts attendees the differences between the how the best 4K and the best 8K TV perform and compare to each other.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Fendergopher

Interesting how that conclusion is almost identical to the one in this (https://pid.samsungdisplay.com/en/le...-8k-resolution) publication from Samsung Display, which was posted no later than February 2019 from what I could find. Seemingly the study/article you've highlighted neglects to mention that Y. Park was a "Senior Engineer at Samsung Display" which the publication does mention. If this: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/action/cookieAbsent is the correct study/article then it's behind a paywall and I haven't verified if it clearly states the researchers' credentials or not.


Edit: Found the article here: https://www.researchgate.net/publica...ion_8K_Display and on the same website it has a page which states Y. Park's credentials. The article itself has a link to that page.

Lee is likely envious of your googling skills.
I’m pretty sure I already noted her previous employment in a post somewhere on this thread pages back either on this thread or perhaps the HDR Discussion thread so that should not come as any surprise to regular readers. As I said previously, it is good to be aware. Condemn, not so fast.

Anyway, I’m quite sure Samsung was happy with the results of Dr. Park’s research as I’m quite sure the company Second Sight was happy with the Mark’s research and development in bringing this device to market, as are many who have lost their vision –

Argus II Retinal Prosthesis System Artificial Retina - YouTube

And there are many other examples I could give where something is funded by this or that company, with some affiliation to a past employee or independent consultant (like me) and yet despite a knee-jerk reflex appearance of impropriety to some, the project/device proved truly valuable.

In short, don’t automatically jump to corruption in the case of Park et al. research into 8K TVs which is why I open-mindedly asked Robert on the last page if he could corroborate their findings in his retail store. Heck, if you do that in the case of Dr. Park et al. and don’t give them the benefit of doubt until proven otherwise then you should similarly discount everything Florian has said or will say in the future as he has previously done work in the furtherance of Samsung also - https://www.cepro.com/news/samsung_q...open_standard/ (Samsung consultant Florian Friedrich)

And why pay any attention at all to what Robert has to say as his primary professional goal, when all is said and done, is to sell TVs ((when in fact if you’ve known him long enough all he wants is what’s best for his clients and the public-at-large). Geez I can’t believe you guys have pulled me into defending a main competitor to Dolby.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Not a bad idea! I'm born and raised in NY, but lived in Santa Barbara and Irvine for 11 years from 1975 - 1986 and loved it!

San Diego County is a good choice too after putting in your service - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...t#post17010733

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

On day 2 (June 11, 2020) we'll be evaluating, voting and announcing the winner of the premium 8K TVs. Also at the conclusion of day 2 we'll position the King of 4K TV butt next to the new King of 8K TV and then display test patterns, 4K HDR BD content on both TVs so they will have a the same content playing. Then we'll put in a USB stick with 4K video on the 4K King and the same content in 8K to the 8K TV.

This is prove to the world in a controlled environment with well respected video experts and the video enthusiasts attendees the differences between the how the best 4K and the best 8K TV perform and compare to each other.

Not using any microscopes for the 8K judging? Would think that would be interesting to compare more then LG and Samsung with other vendors products you have access to.

[Wummyhulk]

Blackmagic Design needs to make an UltraStudio 8K Extreme capture and playback device, but let's not have it be too expensive.

[Auditor55]

https://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.ph...&id=1579085840

"Last week, CES 2020 concluded without a single announcement about a new UHD Blu-ray player. FlatpanelsHD did not even see a Blu-ray player at CES 2020. Perhaps we did not pay enough attention but we were not the only ones."

To all the delusional 8K advocates, so much for 8K UHD Blu Ray players. The future doesn't look good.

[Geoff D]

We weren't gonna get 8K disc even if disc wasn't dying on its ass.

[Robert Zohn]

Panasonic prominently displayed and demonstrated the UB9000.

[R3P0]

Were 4 years away from 8K becoming even niche. Not to mention nothing has been scanned or remastered in 8k anyways. As others have said in the past 8K may happen but it may also just be a pipe dream. There is not enough bandwidth for anyone to really broadcast in 8K right now way to much is going to have to change as far as the network structures of cable companies go for them to even hit 4k right. I believe I read somewhere each 4K stream needs something in the area of 40mbps to broadcast with no drop in quality. That means for each stream of 8k your going to roughly need 100mbps, suffice to say the infrastructure cannot handle it.

[Bluyoda]

Pretty much sums up my views. It's just so utterly pointless, and even counterproductive IMHO. The distances mentioned here are a bit extreme, but overall, that's it.
What do you think?:

:

DO YOU NEED AN 8K TV? | 8K TVS EXPLAINED - YouTube

My main question is: How bad do Blu-rays look on an 8k TV?

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Bluyoda

Pretty much sums up my views. It's just so utterly pointless, and even counterproductive IMHO. The distances mentioned here are a bit extreme, but overall, that's it.
What do you think?

That you have someone talking who doesn't know much. Seriously you have amateur who is neither a photographer or video production expert talking.

If you mention those charts again about what the eye can perceive I am going to argue that if you cannot you perceive the differences at a photography art exhibit between 35mm (roughly native 4K) poster size prints and a much larger 4x5 film sensor with same content (about 16k) you are blind. Go visit a well known photographer that creates those landscape calendars for example they can show you great examples.

Look 4K is no where as detailed as looking at flowers and bushes in a garden. You have to go way up in resolution to achieve that. Its this ridiculous argument about seeing the individual pixels that seems to be the focus not looking at the level of detail accuracy with the scenes comparing it to real life vision acuity.

Now do you need extreme resolution to tell stories in film production, no, just for it to be realistic enough for entertainment purposes.

[Gremal]

I'm not going to shrug it off until I get the chance to see a good setup with 8k content playing. I'd assumed 4k was not a worthwhile upgrade but of course now that I made the jump I think it's arguably more dramatic than NTSC -> 1080. I just hope 4K Blu-ray discs continue to be released in the age of streaming. If 8K catches on, I will be surprised but you'll never find me criticizing the pursuit of HT perfection.

[Bluyoda]

Originally Posted by JohnAV

That you have someone talking who doesn't know much. Seriously you have amateur who is neither a photographer or video production expert talking.

If you mention those charts again about what the eye can perceive I am going to argue that if you cannot you perceive the differences at a photography art exhibit between 35mm (roughly native 4K) poster size prints and a much larger 4x5 film sensor with same content (about 16k) you are blind. Go visit a well known photographer that creates those landscape calendars for example they can show you great examples.

Look 4K is no where as detailed as looking at flowers and bushes in a garden. You have to go way up in resolution to achieve that. Its this ridiculous argument about seeing the individual pixels that seems to be the focus not looking at the level of detail accuracy with the scenes comparing it to real life vision acuity.

Now do you need extreme resolution to tell stories in film production, no, just for it to be realistic enough for entertainment purposes.

Sure. I see it in photographs, but that's at 200 or 300 dpi, so it can't be compared with screen resolutions. I am a nature photographer, and viewing photos on a monitor, versus having them developed are complete different things.

Can you please enlighten me, or point me to a source, how BDs can possibly look good on an 8k TV. Most movies have 2K masters, and most 4k movies are upconverted. There are a handful of good true 8k movies out there, suchs as Baraka, Samsara, IMAX documentaries, and some films shot on 70 or 65mm, such as most David Lean films, but that's about it.

I don't really care whether we can see the difference between 2/4k and 8k, but whether our most beloved movies can look great on an 8k screen, and how that is feasible?

I honestly wouldn't have any problems staying with 1080p, when the source is well-mastered, preferably at 4k, such as Lucy, Spartacus, or Pacific Rim, but I can absolutely see how more pixels benefit larger screen sizes, as when I sit at a distance of 1.5m from my 50inch screen, I can see the screen pattern at times. However, the PQ can be excellent.
I am definitely going to upgrade to 4k soon though, as I want to go 65inch.

Sure, 10bit and 12bit colours are great, but then the studios are still lazy and give us authored discs with banding, and movies that don't even make use of the increased colour range, etc..

Also, let's not fool ourselves, the electronics manufactureres want to sell us something new, not because we really need it, but because they want to make money.

Have you seen a Blu-ray on an 8k TV? Has anyone?

[sapiendut]

I have and they look amazing.

[Robert Zohn]

Any BD disc (FHD SDR and 4K HDR) looks significantly better on any 8K TV. Better color fidelity, color saturation, color volume and most if the 8K displays also deliver a larger dynamic tonal range.

Plus the 8K resolution renders a more detailed image.

[JohnAV]

Originally Posted by Bluyoda

Have you seen a Blu-ray on an 8k TV? Has anyone?

If you go to a Magnolia Design Center at BB or another good 4K/8K TV dealer they should be able to provide you with seeing for yourself. At least you can start out on the path to what you ultimately buy. Don't rush, enjoy the scenery till you get there.

[Bluyoda]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

I have and they look amazing.

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Any BD disc (FHD SDR and 4K HDR) looks significantly better on any 8K TV. Better color fidelity, color saturation, color volume and most if the 8K displays also deliver a larger dynamic tonal range.

Plus the 8K resolution renders a more detailed image.

Well, that's great to hear. Can't wait to see it myself. Thanks, guys.

[Auditor55]

Originally Posted by Bluyoda

Well, that's great to hear. Can't wait to see it myself. Thanks, guys.

Stop being so easily swallowed up by marketing propaganda. I doubt very very seriously any improvements like upscaling has anything to do with 8K resolution.