HDR Discussion Thread

[Robert Zohn]

All very good ^ points! One thing I want to add is that Dolby did not create the "Low Latency" profile for Sony. It's available to all DV clients.

Sony chose to use it so they can support gamers more efficiently.

[LordoftheRings]

Sony is the name of the game.

[DanBa]

The Oppo UDP-203 and the audiophile Oppo UDP-205 can play almost everything, in particular SACD, DVD-Audio, CD-Audio, DVD-Video, Blu-ray or Ultra HD Blu-ray.

They are compatible with Dolby Vision, HDR10, HEVC HLG HDR (via DLNA / SMB) and VP9-HLG / VP9-PQ YouTube HDR (via DLNA / SMB).
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/149-bl...l#post49450505





Adding HDR10+ playback to the Oppo universal players is technically feasible:

. Dolby Vision is currently the most complex HDR format due to its dynamic metadata display adaptation and its 12-bit dual layer architecture requiring in particular dual HEVC decoding.
Therefore, if a device SoC is powerful enough to support Dolby Vision, this device SoC is able to support any other HEVC HDR format like HDR10+.
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-hi...l#post50302361

. "The ability to support HDR10+ is being investigated, but at the moment we do not know if the player will be able to pass the HDR10+ metadata to your equipment." [Oppo]
http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/p...tml#p179427181


Samsung is adding HDR10+ playback to its 2017 UHD Blu-ray players.
https://twitter.com/Flatpanels/statu...43719836884992

It is feasible for Samsung, it should be feasible for Oppo.

The HDMI chipset of the UDP-203 has been updated to HDMI 2.0b.
http://www.oppodigital.com/Knowledge...ProdID=BDP-103

HDMI 2.0b is based on CTA-861-G (transmission of HLG).
HDMI 2.1 Dynamic HDR is based on CTA-861-G (transmission of SMPTE ST 2094 dynamic metadata (ST 2094-40 HDR10+ / ST 2094-10 Dolby Vision / ST 2094-20/30 Technicolor HDR SL-HDR1 dynamic metadata).
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-hi...l#post54744118

The HDMI chipset of the UDP-203 should be more or less easily upgraded to be fully compliant with CTA-861-G (i.e. HDMI 2.1 Dynamic HDR).


Adding HDR10+ playback to the Oppo universal players will be a big plus.

"Back on the subject of HDR again, there are those who worry about an HDR format wars. Here’s the thing, from our perspective: That’s really the wrong way to look at this. HDR10, HDR10+ and Dolby Vision is no more a format war than the various DTS and Dolby sound formats amount to an audio war. They’re just going to co-exist. The smartest thing you can do is to find players and displays that support all of them, or at least your particular favorite."
http://digitalbits.com/columns/my-two-cents/010918-1030

[Ruined]

When Oppo players add hdr10+ that might get me to buy one. Seems to be the future proofing required for UHDBD.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

All very good ^ points! One thing I want to add is that Dolby did not create the "Low Latency" profile for Sony. It's available to all DV clients.

Sony chose to use it so they can support gamers more efficiently.

Gamers? **** the gamers! I would like to play a Dolby Vision movie off of a Dolby Vision disc on a Dolby Vision player and Sony's update as it stands does not permit this, which is preposterous. I do understand that this profile will have its uses outside of Sony TVs in the future and will be handy for any upcoming DV display device that doesn't have the fastest processor in the world, but the complete surprise which has greeted this new version in the "third party" domain would suggest that Dolby has been less than forthcoming about what they were developing for Sony.

Heck, I can understand Sony not wanting to inform everyone of this (because Sony are dicks, it's just their nature) but Dolby keeping schtum reflects just as badly on them in this situation. Not that I think the world is ending or anything, it just makes them both look like putzes when it didn't have to. By all means keep it quiet that you're working on this new profile for Sony's TVs, but there's no reason whatsoever that they couldn't have issued some general information to third party vendors about an upcoming revision to the profiles ahead of time.

How does DV work with gaming though? I thought that the on-the-fly creation of DV metadata is one of the big sticking points with using that format as a 'live' means of playback. Not that it can't be done, it's just a bit finicky.

[Staying Salty]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

...but the complete surprise which has greeted this new version in the "third party" domain would suggest that Dolby has been less than forthcoming about what they were developing for Sony...

...but there's no reason whatsoever that they couldn't have issued some general information to third party vendors about an upcoming revision to the profiles ahead of time.

On.

http://forum.onkyousa.com/viewtopic....512d229365a585

Re: TX-NR777 Dolby Vision warning after LG firmware update
Postby Hedford » Fri Nov 03, 2017 11:43 am
New firmware for this receiver posted on Onkyo website, dated 11/2.
I don't have this receiver/TV combination, so I don't know if fixed.
Release notes to firmware update suggests that it has.
"1. Adds support for new multi-room audio playback function
………
2. Adds support for low-latency mode of Dolby Vision signal.…

This ^ suggests that they did, and the DoVi family has been working on this.
Also why did LG pull the DoVi FW update on their 970? It seemed to be working as well as the OPPO.

It has been stated that OPPO could have a fix as early as April, perhaps sooner. So that implies they were aware.

Perhaps Sony has been less than forth coming because they were not ready to have the rumors spread about a new console. Could hurt current sales perhaps?

I will agree that Sony should have been more open. I'm thinking that the *%#@ storm and ill will this release caused is why it has been revealed that is to support gaming.

When DoVi was first announced no gaming manufactures were on board. So it was logical that the standard chosen put the burden on the Display. Look how long it took for Oppo release their DoVi FW. Once Sony came on board, the priority changed. I reject the idea that Dolby is an idiot and withheld this info from their partners.

Off.

You guys.

[Geoff D]

But who's to say that THAT low-latency mode is the one that Dolby has been working on for Sony?

In any case have you seen Johnny Archer's latest update? https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc.../#2990196a641c

His source sez that Sony were actually TOLD by Dolby that all relevant DV products have already had the update when quite clearly they do not. So someone somewhere is telling porky pies and I stand by every word that I just said about Dolby, they're increasingly looking like the villains here. And if it wasn't deliberate obfuscation then it was just plain incompetence, then.

Sony removing all references to DV on the firmware pages would certainly point to them being just as surprised as we were that it didn't work with external DV sources but they don't escape scott free of course. As John just said and what I previously mused upon here: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...post14603318):: did they not think to actually TEST their DV firmware against something other than their own player and the internal apps? Sure, if there were a million and one players out there then I could understand glossing over that step but there are a literal handful of DV enabled playback sources out there.

If any of this is true then it's basically a case of Dolby talking out of their backsides and Sony being fool enough to take them at their word.

[Staying Salty]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

His source sez that Sony were actually TOLD by Dolby that all relevant DV products have already had the update when quite clearly they do not. So someone somewhere is telling porky pies and I stand by every word that I just said about Dolby, they're increasingly looking like the villains here. And if it wasn't deliberate obfuscation then it was just plain incompetence, then.

... did they not think to actually TEST their DV firmware against something other than their own player and the internal apps?

There again, how could they be that .

Somebodies a

Seems more than a few people are in FULL CYA mode.

Accordingly the DoVi family:

As for me, I am going to enjoy my

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Staying Salty

Every one wants to hang with the Penton-Man

I’ve got to think of doing a custom pic for that ^.

Meanwhile, yes, even Amazon Video guys now more involved in HDR10+, use the DoVi acronym instead of DV. I’ll probably pop back and forth between using DV and DoVi like I do with 4K and UHD.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DanBa

HDR10+

In fairness to the HDR10+ Alliance, the source quoted at LG is wrong, there is no such sharing prerequisite to joining -

Originally Posted by philochs

"While they don’t charge a fee to license HDR10+ technology, according to a source at LG, they do ask that you join the HDR10+ Alliance, a group of manufacturers that share data points and technology advancements with one another. As you can imagine, in an industry as competitive as television manufacturing is, there aren’t many companies too keen on sharing their insider information."

DoVi is simply superior in more ways than one.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DanBa

http://www.homecinema-fr.com/forum/p...tml#p179427181

Bonjour.
Sony Venice in Paris in full frame mode - http://www.pictaram.life/post/168945...513_5737250915

Might find more testers here - https://www.afcinema.com/JPO-2018-Pa...x.html?lang=en

[Staying Salty]

Success has a thousand fathers, but failure is an orphan.

[Staying Salty]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

But who's to say that THAT low-latency mode is the one that Dolby has been working on for Sony?

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

All very good ^ points! One thing I want to add is that Dolby did not create the "Low Latency" profile for Sony. It's available to all DV clients.

Are there more than one "Low Latency" profile in play here?

[Robert Zohn]

From what I am told there's only one Dolby Vision "Low Latency" mode.

[Shalashaska]

I have a bit of a noob-ish question.

Do LCDs discard/crush details in the blacks below their calibrated black level in nits (on discs mastered to 0 nits)? Are they tone mapped by the display?

How does this work with a relative luminance system like SDR? How do OLEDs with their true blacks handle SDR vs. a good LCD, both calibrated to 120 nits peak brightness?

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

In any case have you seen Johnny Archer's latest update? https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc.../#2990196a641c

His source sez that....

Just got the time to read it.
A senior VP should put a muzzle on that ‘source’ because that ‘source’ shouldn’t be talking to the press like that. A long-term good relationship between partners (Dolby and Sony) is more important than serving one reporter’s immediate gratification for information about the inner workings of the process.

All that needed be said to the reporter was that more complete Dolby support is in the works and an official statement may follow. I also just skimmed *the whining thread* and Robert Z. handled the situation the proper way, rather than dishing out dirt.

[Geoff D]

It "may" follow? Pfft. When all people have is hearsay and no official word from any of the parties involved then it's no wonder people are "whining", me very much included which I make no apology for. All folks are asking for is some clarity, if they don't get it then what do Sony and Dolby expect the public to do? Sing their praises for making each other look like idiots?

[PaulGo]

That source needs to get a good spanking with a Forbes magazine.

[Staying Salty]

[Show spoiler]snickers.jpg

[jnelson2000]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

It "may" follow? Pfft. When all people have is hearsay and no official word from any of the parties involved then it's no wonder people are "whining", me very much included which I make no apology for. All folks are asking for is some clarity, if they don't get it then what do Sony and Dolby expect the public to do? Sing their praises for making each other look like idiots?

Bingo. Exactly.


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