Sony Z9F TV

[Geoff D]

Surprised at the gamut measurement as well, I thought they'd have improved that over the ZD9.

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

Measurements for the Z9F/ZF9 from said event (credit goes to AVS member mithras1 for posting them first on that forum):



2000:1 native contrast ratio? Can that really be right? I mean, evidently it is, but took me by surprise somewhat.

2000:1 is almost like a really good IPS panel.

[Geoff D]

But Sony sed it wasn't an IPS

[FullyArray]

Slightly baffled.

"Err sorry boss we meant type 1040 zones. It's too late now"

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by ray0414

2000:1 is almost like a really good IPS panel.

Originally Posted by Geoff D

But Sony sed it wasn't an IPS

It certainly seems very IPS-like, but would Sony really use an IPS panel and try to pass it off as a "VA panel with filters"?

[Agent Kay]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

But Sony sed it wasn't an IPS

Maybe they have gotten close to an IPS with a VA

[Geoff D]

Heck of it is, if the end result is the same as using an IPS anyway then one wonders what the point was of them doing "VA with filters".

In either case, I just don't think that you can get around LCD's inherent trade-off with black levels vs viewing angle.

[MechaGodzilla]

Originally Posted by Agent Kay

Maybe they have gotten close to an IPS with a VA

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Heck of it is, if the end result is the same as using an IPS anyway then one wonders what the point was of them doing "VA with filters".

Heh, yeah, same difference if they've essentially turned a VA into an IPS.

[davidjschenk]

Yeah, this looks BAD. 104 zones is not even in the vicinity of what would be minimally acceptable for a "flagship" locally dimmed TV. Hats off to the dogged Germans for doing all this research work for us, but if those numbers are correct, then the Z9F looks like a major flop.

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

It certainly seems very IPS-like, but would Sony really use an IPS panel and try to pass it off as a "VA panel with filters"?

Sony has never publicly stated its a VA panel, so they technically haven't lied about it publicly.

Sony is guilty of being deceitful in the past as well. When they unveiled the 940d at ces 2016, they boasted about how much better it was than the 2015 940c. Turned out to be completely bunk, the 940d was worse than the 940c in every way. Worse motion performance, 400 less nits, and 25% less zones. These interviews with Phil Jones are on YouTube.


Bottom line appears to be that in 2016, the Z9D was intended to compete with oled. Now in 2018, Sony has their own oleds so they would be competing against themselves basically so they have no incentive to truly push their lcd anymore. But dropping the zone count to 104 would be truly embarrassing. Explains why they only demoed full screen bright content on the Z9f on launch day.

[MechaGodzilla]

It does kind of feel like the A9F is the true successor to the Z9D in a sense. The real new Sony king.

[alexanderg823]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

It does kind of feel like the A9F is the true successor to the Z9D in a sense. The real new Sony king.

I don't really get that impression.

Z9D really pushed forward with LCD way beyond the competition in zone count and brightness. Was a truly remarkable step forward when it came out.

Neither the A9F nor the Z9F give that vibe at all, but I will say A9F does seem much closer to that if I had to pick one.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

It does kind of feel like the A9F is the true successor to the Z9D in a sense. The real new Sony king.

I would have preferred it this way: one more premium high end LCD from Sony before they go Mini or MicroLED. One that's so good, it will still matter in years to come. Just like the Z9D turned out to be. And they could have put an equally premium price tag on it, I don't mind as long as it's worth it. An improved Z9D with the X1U, 4000 nits, perhaps a new BMD or even QD. Add 3D to that and it would have been my dream TV.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by MechaGodzilla

It does kind of feel like the A9F is the true successor to the Z9D in a sense. The real new Sony king.

I think I said in the "how many nits do I need?" thread that if the AF9 does indeed get nearer to 900 nits and if Sony can stop the ABL from smashing that brightness and if (lotta 'ands' and 'ifs' here) they can tune their mapping to not just clip then...woah.

A lot of people will eulogise about OLED's perfect black and rightly so but HDR is not about that, not when you're dealing with absolute luminance source material, and if we can get genuinely powerful HDR brightness allied with dat black (plus Sony's renowned processing prowess) then it could well end up being the perfect marriage of both.

At first glance it seems as if the ZF9 is a typical sideways step by Sony, and people may well be on to something when they say that the ZD9 was over-engineered to try and keep pace with OLED (they created a monster...a monster!) but that the ZF9 is less heroic because it simply doesn't need to be, not with OLED as part of Sony's own range now.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I think I said in the "how many nits do I need?" thread that if the AF9 does indeed get nearer to 900 nits and if Sony can stop the ABL from smashing that brightness and if (lotta 'ands' and 'ifs' here) they can tune their mapping to not just clip then...woah.

A lot of people will eulogise about OLED's perfect black and rightly so but HDR is not about that, not when you're dealing with absolute luminance source material, and if we can get genuinely powerful HDR brightness allied with dat black (plus Sony's renowned processing prowess) then it could well end up being the perfect marriage of both.

At first glance it seems as if the ZF9 is a typical sideways step by Sony, and people may well be on to something when they say that the ZD9 was over-engineered to try and keep pace with OLED (they created a monster...a monster!) but that the ZF9 is less heroic because it simply doesn't need to be, not with OLED as part of Sony's own range now.

Meh.

They can keep their OLEDs, I want a new monster.

[samlop10]

Well, if Sony is getting cheap on LCDs due to prioritizing OLED... I’m not sure that’ll help them much. As popular as OLEDs are (and I love mine), a lot of people still prefer LCDs and if they made the Z9F basically a slightly worse 900F with better processing... I’m pretty sure people won’t care much about the processing and the model will likely flop. They should have at least improved the overall hardware from the Z9D and combined it with their new processing. But like mentioned above if those are true, one step forward, two steps back, and that does not make for a good ‘upgrade’ after the Z9D.

As for the A9F... I’m not sure that people who already have a 65” OLED will like to upgrade to the A9F, especially since they capped it at 65” and I’m not sure the processing will really yield that much visible difference between older OLED models to most people (especially from the last two years). Add that to the fact that it’ll mostly likely carry a premium in price... yeah not good IMO.

If those specs turn out to be true... what is Sony doing? Maybe they’re cutting back on their models this year for a miniLED model next year? Or maybe even microLED?

If not... I have no words. Kind of baffling if those specs on the Z9F turn out to be true (2000:1 native contrast ratio for a flagship model? Really?). And I might steer to something different now. Maybe even a 77” OLED from LG from their next year’s models (CES is already happening in January, it’ll likely be worth the wait is these news turn out to be true), or just the 77” C8. I’ll still wait for more reviews before deciding, but those impressions and early specs on the Z9F are not inspiring much confidence at all.

[Fendergopher]

As disheartening as some of these reports are, I'd personally suspend my despair/glee for when some proper testing is done on retail units by guys like Vincent and RTINGS. Still, it does seem like Sony are really doing some odd things with these new models.

[tommyboy81]

thats a big difference in zones if thats true. The Vizio P Quantum has more than that. Is the Quantum the tv to get in 2018?

[FullyArray]

Sure seems like it. The Vizio PQ is the new overall undisputed LCD king.

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by Fendergopher

As disheartening as some of these reports are, I'd personally suspend my despair/glee for when some proper testing is done on retail units by guys like Vincent and RTINGS. Still, it does seem like Sony are really doing some odd things with these new models.

LOL digitalfernhendes is way above rtings on a technical standpoint. Rtings says the Q8 is better than the Z9D despite only having 40 dimming zones.