Sony Z9F TV

[Robert Zohn]

@DJR662, Sony stepped it up with the Z9F and A9F. I loved all of the advancement.

For the A9F it's brighter, the Ultimate Extreme processor helps deliver excellent color fidelity and enhanced up-conversion. I'm very happy to see the new 20 point CMS and CalMan's new Auto Calibration Sony app. Finally the built-in audio is greatly enhanced and love the addressable center channel configuration.

The Z9F has been nicely upgraded with much improved off axis viewing performance, many more local dimming zones and significantly higher peak luminance. As in the A9F the 20 point CMS is a sorely need feature when calibrating the TV, the Ultimate Extreme processor is very a welcome upgrade when watching FHD content and for even better motion resolution then the Z9D, which enjoyed very good motion resolution.

The new factory tuning helps improve screen uniformity.

At the press conference Sony spent much time speaking about and demonstrating the Netflix calibrated mode on the A9F and Z9F, and it looked stunning.

Above all the take away was the new term "Master Series", which is meant to instill the feeling and confidence that Sony consumer partnered with Sony Professional and Sony Pictures to bring the filmmakers intent and the BMX 300 mastering monitor image quality to the A9F and Z9F new flagship consumer TVs.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

@DJR662, Sony stepped it up with the Z9F and A9F. I loved all of the advancement.

For the A9F it's brighter, the Ultimate Extreme processor helps deliver excellent color fidelity and enhanced up-conversion. I'm very happy to see the new 20 point CMS and CalMan's new Auto Calibration Sony app. Finally the built-in audio is greatly enhanced and love the addressable center channel configuration.

The Z9F has been nicely upgraded with much improved off axis viewing performance, many more local dimming zones and significantly higher peak luminance. As in the A9F the 20 point CMS is a sorely need feature when calibrating the TV, the Ultimate Extreme processor is very a welcome upgrade when watching FHD content and for even better motion resolution then the Z9D, which enjoyed very good motion resolution.

The new factory tuning helps improve screen uniformity.

At the press conference Sony spent much time speaking about and demonstrating the Netflix calibrated mode on the A9F and Z9F, and it looked stunning.

Above all the take away was the new term "Master Series", which is meant to instill the feeling and confidence that Sony consumer partnered with Sony Professional and Sony Pictures to bring the filmmakers intent and the BMX 300 mastering monitor image quality to the A9F and Z9F new flagship consumer TVs.

Thanks. This all does sound promising except for the Netflix part for which I have no interest in. It absolutely kills me a premium high end TV would make focusing on streaming a priority while omitting 3D in the process.

I'm also a bit worried about the reported blooming issue. The 65Z9D has some very minor issues in the black bars with this, but it is acceptable to me. The 75Z9D is near perfect regarding this aspect however. I hope this somehow won't be an issue with the Z9F. At least not on the 75Z9F which I am contemplating on getting if all goes well.

I really can't wait for more detailed info. Zone count, nits, color fidelity, uniformity etc etc.

I will say this once again though: I really, really, REALLY hate the fact Sony couldn't be bothered to stick with 3D on this model. For God's sake, just leave it in. There's absolutely no harm in doing so. People were asking for 3D on this model yesterday when I read comments across different sites. I'm absolutelty 100% sure it would help Sony sell even more TVs. If you could do me a favour, Robert, I hope you will be able to get this message across to Sony. I'm sure you are well aware I am not the only one who feels this way...

The new Sony models look fantastic, this is all great news and I'm excited about it. Yet at the same time I'm angy, disappointed and sad at the same time because of the lack of 3D.

Anyway I will keep a very close eye on the Z9F the upcoming months.

[Nothing371]

TIL that the Z9D was 3D capable.

[Robert Zohn]

@DJR662, I agree with you and everyone that I am sad to see 3D go away on all 2017 and newer TVs. However, consider the costs of the 3D filter, the licensing fees, the costs to q/c and warranty 3D performance for cross talk etc has saved the manufacturers time and money. Plus all TV manufacturers dropped 3D.

The Cinemascope bars not being black and having some light pollution when a bright object comes near the top and bottom of the screen are not worse than how the Z9D performs. I'm just a nitpicker and expected improvement in the cropping bars, just like Sony did with every other attribute.

I voiced my opinion to Sony and asked them to look into improving the dimming algorithm to be tuned to keep the bars dark when the local dimming zone has a bright object in any of the bottom dimming zones and to make the cropping bars shut off the back light.

Samsung's Q9FN does this very effectively. However, Sony's Z9F does everything else better.

[alexanderg823]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

@DJR662, I agree with you and everyone that I am sad to see 3D go away on all 2017 and newer TVs. However, consider the costs of the 3D filter, the licensing fees, the costs to q/c and warranty 3D performance for cross talk etc has saved the manufacturers time and money. Plus all TV manufacturers dropped 3D.

The Cinemascope bars not being black and having some light pollution when a bright object comes near the top and bottom of the screen are not worse than how the Z9D performs. I'm just a nitpicker and expected improvement in the cropping bars, just like Sony did with every other attribute.

I voiced my opinion to Sony and asked them to look into improving the dimming algorithm to be tuned to keep the bars dark when the local dimming zone has a bright object in any of the bottom dimming zones and to make the cropping bars shut off the back light.

Samsung's Q9FN does this very effectively. However, Sony's Z9F does everything else better.

Well that's good to know - I understand what you mean about the Z9D cinemascope bars. They're not atrocious or even "bad", they're just not perfect, and can on occasion be noticeable with a bit of room for improvement..

I'm not sure how much they can fix via firmware, though. I can't speak for the Samsung Q9FN, but I know that Matt McRae, the former Vizio CTO, said that to get the black bars perfect for the Vizio P (which has the best black bars I've seen in LED, including the Q9FN) it required clever positioning of the LED backlights themselves.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

@DJR662, I agree with you and everyone that I am sad to see 3D go away on all 2017 and newer TVs. However, consider the costs of the 3D filter, the licensing fees, the costs to q/c and warranty 3D performance for cross talk etc has saved the manufacturers time and money. Plus all TV manufacturers dropped 3D.

The Cinemascope bars not being black and having some light pollution when a bright object comes near the top and bottom of the screen are not worse than how the Z9D performs. I'm just a nitpicker and expected improvement in the cropping bars, just like Sony did with every other attribute.

I voiced my opinion to Sony and asked them to look into improving the dimming algorithm to be tuned to keep the bars dark when the local dimming zone has a bright object in any of the bottom dimming zones and to make the cropping bars shut off the back light.

Samsung's Q9FN does this very effectively. However, Sony's Z9F does everything else better.

Thanks.

Do you happen to have seen the difference between the 65" and 75" Z9Ds by any chance? The 75Z9D performs better with local dimming than its younger brother in terms of keeping blooming really to a minimum. Do you think there might be a difference between the 65" and 75" Z9F in a similar way, in zone count and peak brightness? I really hope so.Too bad Sony themselves doesn't give out that kind of info. The 75Z9D performs a little better than his little brother. I was hoping this might also be the case for the 75Z9F.

Pricing and release dates for Z9F and A9F over here in Europe will apparenty be released at IFA. I'm hoping for a 6000-7000 Euro pricetag for the 75Z9F, but preferably less ofcourse.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by alexanderg823

Well that's good to know - I understand what you mean about the Z9D cinemascope bars. They're not atrocious or even "bad", they're just not perfect, and can on occasion be noticeable with a bit of room for improvement..

On my sets, the 75" Z9D outperforms the 65" regarding that matter. I can watch HDR content on the 75" in the dark, and I'm having a really hard time noticing light bleed when looking for it, if I see any at all. I'm not saying it's OLED perfect, but the bars do disappear in the surroundings when watching in the dark and I do not notice any greyness. I cannot say the same for the 65Z9D. Not to bring it down in any way since it still does an amazing job ofcourse. I am also nitpicking in this case.

[Robert Zohn]

It was the 75" Z9F that I spent most of my time viewing and it was in a light controlled room.

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by alexanderg823

Well that's good to know - I understand what you mean about the Z9D cinemascope bars. They're not atrocious or even "bad", they're just not perfect, and can on occasion be noticeable with a bit of room for improvement..

I'm not sure how much they can fix via firmware, though. I can't speak for the Samsung Q9FN, but I know that Matt McRae, the former Vizio CTO, said that to get the black bars perfect for the Vizio P (which has the best black bars I've seen in LED, including the Q9FN) it required clever positioning of the LED backlights themselves.

It's also alot easier to keep the bars black when the TV maxes out at only 500 nits. Samsung's older sets that had cinema black also had perfect black bars, but they only maxed put around 300-500 nits also. (except for the Js9500 which had phenomenal bars for a 950 nit TV). I've seen some complaints the past couple days of the Vizio PQ TV unable to keep the bars black because it's so much brighter than previous models.

[alexanderg823]

Originally Posted by ray0414

It's also alot easier to keep the bars black when the TV maxes out at only 500 nits. Samsung's older sets that had cinema black also had perfect black bars, but they only maxed put around 300-500 nits also. (except for the Js9500 which had phenomenal bars for a 950 nit TV). I've seen some complaints the past couple days of the Vizio PQ TV unable to keep the bars black because it's so much brighter than previous models.

shrug, i mean i know the Q9FN has black bars that stay almost perfectly black at all times and it gets really bright so who knows.

[ryanmcv]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

@DJR662, I agree with you and everyone that I am sad to see 3D go away on all 2017 and newer TVs. However, consider the costs of the 3D filter, the licensing fees, the costs to q/c and warranty 3D performance for cross talk etc has saved the manufacturers time and money. Plus all TV manufacturers dropped 3D.

Not to derail this thread too much -- but surely the cost of the 3D polarizing filter is rather minimal. Right? Heck, back in 2016, LG was selling the B6 (no 3D) for the same price as the C6 (with 3D). If there were truly a significant cost to add in a 3D filter, then why wasn't the C6 priced higher?

Seems to me that TV manufacturers dropped 3D so they could focus on terms like "HDR" and "Dolby Vision" and not have to worry about even more consumer confusion by keeping 3D. Which is a complete shame, as having 3D as a feature takes away absolutely nothing from the other aspects of a TV.

[/rant]

[Robert Zohn]

@ray0414 and alexanderg823, actually I believe you are both correct.

One way Samsung was able to maintain the black in the Cinemascope cropping bars is by reducing the luminance in areas where a bright area is on the screen. Good to maintain the black bars and to reduce the halos around bright objects, but not so good for the effectiveness of HDR, local dimming and MLL.

[E6AtmosVuduDV]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zthe...ature=youtu.be

[E6AtmosVuduDV]

Colors seems more intense on the 65 inch.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

It was the 75" Z9F that I spent most of my time viewing and it was in a light controlled room.

Another question if you don't mind, not sure if it has been mentioned before: does the Z9F use the same Backlight Master Drive as the Z9D, or is it an updated one?

[Robert Zohn]

Sony would not say, but I understand it is the same is the Backlight Master Drive that the Z9D has.

E6AtmosVuduDV, thanks for posting Vincent's excellent video!

I was paired with Vincent when the press conference concluded and we broke up into small groups for the private room demos.

[DJR662]

Originally Posted by Robert Zohn

Excellent video from Vincent!

I was paired with Vincent when the press conference concluded and we broke up into small groups for the private room demos.

I read that Vincent said no on Twitter when someone asked him about the alleged Z9F's 4000 nits peak brightness. Or at least not on a 10% window at D65. Did you by any chance hear anything about that?

Sorry for all the questions btw, I guess I'm still a bit

[ggp759]

Originally Posted by DJR662

I read that Vincent said no on Twitter when someone asked him about the alleged Z9F's 4000 nits peak brightness. Or at least not on a 10% window at D65. Did you by any chance hear anything about that?

Sorry for all the questions btw, I guess I'm still a bit

I would like to know this as well. Is it brighter than the z9d? I realize there are many factors that come into play ( tone mapping on the new z9f compared to z9d, max luminance od content playing etc) but just a general impression? thanks

[RalphoR]

I'm glad Sony continues the dual flagship approach for their tv line. I'm still a couple of years out from getting an A or Z flagship. I hope they have some nice surprises with their projector lineup for 2019 as well. Thanks to all for the informative posts.

[Robert Zohn]

Sony will not give out the peak luminance or local dimming zone count. We'll take all of the measurement when we receive our 1st mass production shipment.

I do know it's brighter and has more local dimming zones. It's also important to know that the new Ultimate X1 Extreme processor has improved the local dimming algorithm to perform better and HDR tone mapping is improved as well as up-conversion of FHD content. These are upgrades that enhance the image performance and will not show up by just measuring the peak luminance and amount of local dimming zones.