HDR Discussion Thread

[Waboman]

is this the PM getting down at a Top Gun party?

[gkolb]

Yeah, who is that guy? PM?

He seems very gregarious.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

The now is perfecting HDR, make it compatible with all components, and ... Filmmaker Mode coming up....

As I mentioned before, the filmmaker mode initiative may be good, albeit long overdue, for the relatively unknowledgeable movie watcher at home with their typical basically set-up TVs (take out the box, plug-and-play it, no professional calibration, not even any advanced menu tweaking/selection) who don’t frequent audio video forums like Blu-ray.com, but to help evolve this topic to a more progressive thinking level I’ll (and this is also on the minds of some of the most cutting edge engineers/color scientists, etc. in Hollywood and elsewhere who are not Directors, exception being Ang), I’ll present a counter position to -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPJu...tu.be#t=43m45s

I didn't catch that, again, which mode was that?

Anyway, paraphrasing a friend - ‘We have these people who think they know what is right who are telling us how to watch movies in a certain way so that we see their intent. The problem is that their intent is affected by many factors that they don't understand. Who is to say which is right [or better]? Whatever and wherever you watch 24 Hz, it does horrible things to motion. There was no psycho-optical input to the choice of 24 Hz whatsoever. Filmmakers tell us that is what it's intended to look like. If what was intended was a load of judder and motion smearing, that's not a very wholesome intention. The whole vocabulary of filmmaking evolved around making do with 24 Hz and a lot of that required loss of resolution, that just happened to cover up crappy sets and rough make up. We weren't intended to see that.’

Plus, I’ll remind as displays get brighter over time, if Directors refuse to budge from 24 Hz then some non-traditional thinking with regards to future filmmaking by way of solutions like TrueCut to mitigate judder may be in order for some of the Directors out there to consider - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...g#post16691955

In other words, as an analogy, doctors intend to do what’s best for their patients (exception being rotten apples like that Mark Weinberger guy) but intent means didley squat if they aren’t using the best possible practices and procedures on my body….the ‘community standard’ doesn’t cut it.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Waboman

is this the PM getting down at a Top Gun party?

nope, I’m better looking
at least my wife claims so without hesitation
and she's the boss

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by gkolb

Yeah, who is that guy? PM?
He seems very gregarious.

it’s one of life’s mysteries sir

[Penton-Man]

I’m informed the attendees of the American Patriot Awards - https://www.sandiegouniontribune.com...-midway-awards
yesterday really liked the sneak peak of Top Gun: Maverick shown on their screen –


(courtesy Paula Cordeiro)

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Wendell R. Breland

Will have been here for 13 years next month. I have really enjoyed the ride at Blu-ray.COM

thinking back, it’s kind of creepy that the word Gun(s) one way or another now appears in a search of a lot of my posts, even dating back to those earlier years of which you speak when I was more actively involved in customer service for anxious members, e.g. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...in#post5047489

oh well

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

2006, the birth of the Blu-ray disc and Blu-ray player in North America.
13 years later and we now have 4K and HDR and elevated sounds.
We have been through 3D Blu-ray with a gigantic push from James Cameron's Avatar flick.
Now it has been pretty much abandoned.

The now is perfecting HDR, make it compatible with all components, and ... Filmmaker Mode coming up.

Dolby Vision? It's improving too, slowly but surely.

All the above are very good developments so far...

Actually we are already in the 8K era as 8K TVs are already available and there will be more of them and more affordable too as the years aged.

Yet again, IMHO, I have to remind that 8K for the home is ludicrous and ridiculous. Who is going to pay for all UK houses to be re-built to be big enough? No-one is. They are NOT currently. (I support 8K for production though, for better quality 4K releases for the home).

Streaming is surpassing physical too.

That's the single biggest tragedy of all.

Streaming can come back when it's offering all the making-ofs, behind-the-scenes, director's commentaries, special effects commentaries, and all the other things that I've got from discs which have taught me so much about the industry and made me appreciate movies more, enjoy them more, and buy them more.
I'm NEVER going to buy into a format which goes back to the dark ages of "just the film".
And to attract me, streaming would have to offer something tangible over and above what discs already offer me now: things like noticeably better picture quality, noticeably better sound quality, even more and better extras, or all three.
As well as, which I should have started with of course, permanent and guaranteed lifetime ownership of the content regardless of whether or not the company goes out of business and vanishes!

Until then - forget it. Do not even think I'll buy into it for movies. DRM-free downloading services maybe. Streaming - nope.

So...

Streaming is surpassing physical too.

"Surpassing" is the wrong word IMHO, because that word means that it's better.
Streaming is usurping physical, with a worse quality product and no guarantee of ownership, no protection, and its "continue paying forever, or lose it all (that's if we stay in business)" payment model.

By the way thank-you for not buying in to the new ridiculous fad of calling streaming "digital". All my physical media has always been fully "digital", from DVD onwards, and will continue to be so. We should all push back against the abuse of that term.

[PaulGo]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

As I mentioned before, the filmmaker mode initiative may be good, albeit long overdue, for the relatively unknowledgeable movie watcher at home with their typical basically set-up TVs (take out the box, plug-and-play it, no professional calibration, not even any advanced menu tweaking/selection) who don’t frequent audio video forums like Blu-ray.com, but to help evolve this topic to a more progressive thinking level I’ll (and this is also on the minds of some of the most cutting edge engineers/color scientists, etc. in Hollywood and elsewhere who are not Directors, exception being Ang), I’ll present a counter position to -
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mPJu...tu.be#t=43m45s

I didn't catch that, again, which mode was that?

Anyway, paraphrasing a friend - ‘We have these people who think they know what is right who are telling us how to watch movies in a certain way so that we see their intent. The problem is that their intent is affected by many factors that they don't understand. Who is to say which is right [or better]? Whatever and wherever you watch 24 Hz, it does horrible things to motion. There was no psycho-optical input to the choice of 24 Hz whatsoever. Filmmakers tell us that is what it's intended to look like. If what was intended was a load of judder and motion smearing, that's not a very wholesome intention. The whole vocabulary of filmmaking evolved around making do with 24 Hz and a lot of that required loss of resolution, that just happened to cover up crappy sets and rough make up. We weren't intended to see that.’

Plus, I’ll remind as displays get brighter over time, if Directors refuse to budge from 24 Hz then some non-traditional thinking with regards to future filmmaking by way of solutions like TrueCut to mitigate judder may be in order for some of the Directors out there to consider - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...g#post16691955

In other words, as an analogy, doctors intend to do what’s best for their patients (exception being rotten apples like that Mark Weinberger guy) but intent means didley squat if they aren’t using the best possible practices and procedures on my body….the ‘community standard’ doesn’t cut it.

Penton, I totally agree with you. Also everyone is different in the way their eyes and brains "see" things. What one viewer sees as the correct brightness and color saturation may be totally different for another viewer. The filmmaker mode may be a good starting point and may be correct for most viewers but certainly not for all.

[sapiendut]

Of course not. If you want something that is as perfect for every person then a professional calibration calibration and tweak afterwards is what’s needed. As I said, this is nothing more than a simple naming convention.

[LordoftheRings]

I can see the Filmmaker Mode the beginning of Automatic self-calibrated TVs of tomorrow ...
Instead of plugging a Dirac Live Room Calibration & Correction microphone into your computer laptop, you'd plug a HDR special Calibration & Correction camera into your computer laptop and aiming @ your HDR TV (4K & 8K).

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Plus, I’ll remind as displays get brighter over time, if Directors refuse to budge from 24 Hz then some non-traditional thinking with regards to future filmmaking by way of solutions like TrueCut to mitigate judder may be in order for some of the Directors out there to consider - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...g#post16691955

a winner of the 2019 Hollywood Professional Association Engineering Excellence Award - https://hpaonline.com/hpa-announces-...award-winners/

Pixelworks – TrueCut Motion

TrueCut Motion is a cinematic video tool for finely tuning motion appearance. It leverages Pixelworks’ 20 years of leadership in video processing, together with a new motion appearance model and motion dataset. Used as a part of the creative process, TrueCut Motion empowers filmmakers to explore a broader range of motion appearances than previously possible.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by PaulGo

Penton, I totally agree with you. Also everyone is different in the way their eyes and brains "see" things. What one viewer sees as the correct brightness and color saturation may be totally different for another viewer. The filmmaker mode may be a good starting point and may be correct for most viewers but certainly not for all.

The interesting thing is that the horse may already have left the barn on this so to speak, by that I mean younger folks, say < 30, who rarely go out to theaters these days and primarily watch all their movies on TV have already been conditioned to the non-filmmaker mode and judge it as being normal/better as Phil Hinton hinted to Stefan in that past YouTube I linked on the last page or so.

And some of this generation will attend film school and possibly question the validity of old traditional 24 fps (and its inherent weakness) when they eventually become Directors. Which makes me wonder (although in all likelihood I won’t be alive and kicking 40 years from now to see it happen), if in a few decades or less if filmmakers will commonly be shooting and displaying movies at higher fps, especially if HDR becomes the primary iteration and as I said TVs and masters push to higher nits.

Younger folks who are sensitized to something have a different perspective. On a social consciousness note, with all the mass shootings happening at public places including their schools, with active shooter drills and such for kids becoming the norm when they never were when we were growing up, I wonder if sort of in the same way this newer generation will question the validity of the conditions adults have placed them in for years with that too…..and they, themselves will do something to change it.

[LordoftheRings]

☆ https://paulbakaus.com/tutorials/imm...ons-for-60fps/

[Penton-Man]

for those activists who are passionate about media, especially motion pictures and being so motivated, you’ve got about 2 weeks left - https://www.loc.gov/programs/nationa...stry/nominate/

P.S.
(clicking on the 2018 Additions shows the movies added for that year, happy to see Monterey Pop and a couple of my other personal faves on the list)

[sapiendut]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

I can see the Filmmaker Mode the beginning of Automatic self-calibrated TVs of tomorrow ...
Instead of plugging a Dirac Live Room Calibration & Correction microphone into your computer laptop, you'd plug a HDR special Calibration & Correction camera into your computer laptop and aiming @ your HDR TV (4K & 8K).

If only a sensor that can properly read 30 IRE and lower can be manufactured at $3 or less. Even today’s $800 sensor can’t do that yet.

[LordoftheRings]

Originally Posted by sapiendut

If only a sensor that can properly read 30 IRE and lower can be manufactured at $3 or less. Even today’s $800 sensor can’t do that yet.

You get the idea David...a simple well designed sensor to measure light output, etc.

The Filmmaker Mode in my opinion is only the beginning of that beautiful improved picture journey. And it's for videophiles who respect the film Director's vision and also for Moms and Dads and everyone else who love films and emotions. ...Wildlife documentaries, music video concerts, Netflix films, Blu-rays, etc., in HDR UHD 4K moving camera shot pictures.

* Mom is watching a 4K HDR live stream tennis match and it looks glorious with the simple press of a Sportsmaker Mode on her 4K HDR TV remote.

[sapiendut]

I do, but until they can make sensors that’s really cheap AND accurate, it’s not going to happen. As for filmmaker mode? I stand with my view that it’s just a renaming of movie/cinema mode. Unless they make it as out of the box setting, people are still not going to choose it (at best) or people will think their TV is already calibrated from the factory (most likely this is what will happen as Sony’s Netflix Calibrated Mode already make people think that their TVs are already calibrated from the factory).

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

Good food in a big boat...cruise ship. Too bad the bridge cannot be lifted ... next one they'll build it higher. ...And the boats too (cruise ships).

last time we were in Vancouver, we stopped on our bike ride around Stanley Park to take several pics of the bridge (not Gregg's ship of course) like so –

Originally Posted by LordoftheRings

HDR ... let's see what's new on that waterfront ...

unbeknownst to many, a live encoding demo forthcoming -
https://www.facebook.com/BeamrVideo/...2620867975177/

[LordoftheRings]

Then we go to the film director's homes to watch movies on their 3D/4K front projectors and OLED TVs in their bedrooms to check their video settings.

Movie Cinema Mode 2 with sharpness set @ 22 and Gamma below ...
I would also tell them to film with 3D cameras the ones who make films more for that genre ... Animations and Computer Graphic Regenerated sci-fi flicks.

Scorsese and Nolan don't need to apply. The Irishman in 2D would do just fine.
Motion Blurb deactivated and Movie Mode 2 engaged.

But, a big blue button on the remote that says "Filmmaker Mode" for watching Roma and Cold War in HDR for example, cannot hurt.

I do, but until they can make sensors that’s really cheap AND accurate, it’s not going to happen. As for filmmaker mode? I stand with my view that it’s just a renaming of movie/cinema mode. Unless they make it as out of the box setting, people are still not going to choose it (at best) or people will think their TV is already calibrated from the factory (most likely this is what will happen as Sony’s Netflix Calibrated Mode already make people think that their TVs are already calibrated from the factory).