HDR Discussion Thread

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by KarmaNL

Any owners of LG's 2017 oled series here have dynamic contrast set to low instead of off?

Apparently low settings activates ActiveHDR, but it seems more reasonable that all extra's need to be turned off to get the best picture.

I'm getting my oled ISF calibrated on Wednesday so we'll see what the guy says about this. It's all kinda confusing.

I thought dynamic contrast was just a gimmik to further screw with the way picture was intended to be seen

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-J320A using Tapatalk

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by neef68

Thanks. The issue is that I’m buying them online and can’t see the specs on the back or I look on the back and it doesn’t say HDR anywhere. Am I just looking for the 4:4:4 or what? What should I specifically be looking for? I just don’t want to end up having to return a disc after I’ve already opened it because it doesn’t allow a HDR presentation...

You make a good point. I was going to say "just look at the specs here on blu-ray.com" but they don't contain the information.

For example:
https://www.blu-ray.com/movies/Star-...lu-ray/153633/

Video
Codec: HEVC / H.265
Resolution: 4K (2160p)
Aspect ratio: 2.40:1, 1.78:1
Original aspect ratio: 2.39:1

^^This is where I expect to see WCG information and HDR information. But there is nothing at all other than the resolution.

The "Codec" is nice to have, but what I would consider more essential items (IMHO) - WCG information and HDR information - are nowhere to be seen.

Some, but not all, pages have pictures of the back cover where you can look.

But it would be really great to update the core Video fields to include this information.

[Geoff D]

I don't see what the issue is. If it's being released by Fox, Lionsgate, Warners, Sony, Paramount or Universal then it will have HDR, the sole exception being the IMAX discs that were released by Uni, both being 4K SDR 709.

[neef68]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I don't see what the issue is. If it's being released by Fox, Lionsgate, Warners, Sony, Paramount or Universal then it will have HDR, the sole exception being the IMAX discs that were released by Uni, both being 4K SDR 709.

See? This is what I mean. You have access to some knowledge that I don’t. I came here for insight that isn’t readily available on google. I’m sure you can understand me not wanting to buy discs that don’t support an upgrade that I just paid money to make so that I could enjoy the benefit of 4k HDR. 4k by itself didn’t even initially impress me. More accurate colors made me make the switch. The issue is that there just isn’t a lot of information on this topic for anyone who isn’t tech savvy like everyone else on this website and forum. What I’m getting from everyone’s response is “purchase freely UHD discs if you’re concerned about support of HDR because you’ll rarely ever come across any UHD disc that doesn’t support it.” Well okay. I’ll go with everyone’s recommendation. Thanks for hearing me out and offering some insight to EVERYONE who responded 😉👍🏾

[DanBa]

Originally Posted by KarmaNL

Any owners of LG's 2017 oled series here have dynamic contrast set to low instead of off?

Apparently low settings activates ActiveHDR, but it seems more reasonable that all extra's need to be turned off to get the best picture. ...

I think LG didn't have time to implement a proper on-screen menu "Active HDR" before release date.

As there is no standard HDR10 tone/gamut mapping specification, HDR10 display adaptation implementations are different.
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-hi...l#post50857057

Active HDR set to OFF: a HDR10 display adaptation
Active HDR set to ON (i.e. Dynamic Contrast set to LOW): another HDR10 display adaptation

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by DanBa

I think LG didn't have time to implement a proper on-screen menu "Active HDR" before release date.

As there is no standard HDR10 tone/gamut mapping specification, HDR10 display adaptation implementations are different.
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-hi...l#post50857057

Active HDR set to OFF: a HDR10 display adaptation
Active HDR set to ON (i.e. Dynamic Contrast set to LOW): another HDR10 display adaptation

I use Dynamic Contrast:Low on my Oled C6 but I lower brightness from 50 to 49

[puddy77]

Originally Posted by neef68

Thanks. The issue is that I’m buying them online and can’t see the specs on the back or I look on the back and it doesn’t say HDR anywhere. Am I just looking for the 4:4:4 or what? What should I specifically be looking for? I just don’t want to end up having to return a disc after I’ve already opened it because it doesn’t allow a HDR presentation...

Originally Posted by neef68

See? This is what I mean. You have access to some knowledge that I don’t. I came here for insight that isn’t readily available on google. I’m sure you can understand me not wanting to buy discs that don’t support an upgrade that I just paid money to make so that I could enjoy the benefit of 4k HDR. 4k by itself didn’t even initially impress me. More accurate colors made me make the switch. The issue is that there just isn’t a lot of information on this topic for anyone who isn’t tech savvy like everyone else on this website and forum. What I’m getting from everyone’s response is “purchase freely UHD discs if you’re concerned about support of HDR because you’ll rarely ever come across any UHD disc that doesn’t support it.” Well okay. I’ll go with everyone’s recommendation. Thanks for hearing me out and offering some insight to EVERYONE who responded 😉👍🏾

Yes, Geoff and I know about the rare UHD BDs without HDR because we frequent these forums. But the information isn't hard to find. If you are planning on purchasing one like Life of Pi, just read the review on this site. There is always a section about the video and they will mention whether or not it has HDR. And if a title hasn't been reviewed yet, you might find reviews elsewhere, or you could just check out the thread for that particular title in the Ultra HD Blu-ray and 4K Movies forum.

But your assumption is correct, “purchase freely UHD discs if you’re concerned about support of HDR because you’ll rarely ever come across any UHD disc that doesn’t support it.”

[Caleb C.]

Originally Posted by KarmaNL

Any owners of LG's 2017 oled series here have dynamic contrast set to low instead of off?

Apparently low settings activates ActiveHDR, but it seems more reasonable that all extra's need to be turned off to get the best picture.

I'm getting my oled ISF calibrated on Wednesday so we'll see what the guy says about this. It's all kinda confusing.

This should be useful to you:
Calibration Notes for 2017 LG OLED TVs

[DanBa]

Originally Posted by RockyIII

I use Dynamic Contrast:Low on my Oled C6 but I lower brightness from 50 to 49

2016 LG OLEDs don't have Active HDR.

[Tru-way]

Originally Posted by DanBa

2016 LG OLEDs don't have Active HDR.

Perhaps maybe in a future firmware update?

[RockyIII]

Originally Posted by DanBa

2016 LG OLEDs don't have Active HDR.

I know, I just like the way DC Low + Brightness 49 works compared to default HDR

[KarmaNL]

Originally Posted by Caleb C.

This should be useful to you:
Calibration Notes for 2017 LG OLED TVs

Thanks!

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by BrownianMotion

Ericsson also showed its Intelligent Tone Mapping technology which can convert between all the different flavours of HDR, in production, in transmission or in the viewer's home. We also heard the intriguing comment that "the advantage of HDR10+ is that it's not difficult to take the metadata from Dolby Vision and interpret it to HDR10+".

https://www.displaydaily.com/article...ym-soup-at-ibc

Hmm, then why was Mark H. (https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-hor...82a2797/?ppe=1 ) so frustrated during the panel and even calling on Craig T. to itemize all the various HDR choices in a differentiating fashion, as previously pointed out -

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I sensed operator frustration with regards to the production of live HDR, timestamp 0:48:37 -

https://ibc.gallery.video/ibctv/deta...age=0#t=48m37s

[Penton-Man]

Progress note from 6/24/2016……

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Plus, another issue on the horizon with regards to in home viewing of HDR content is that for live TV, given past behavior of advertisers, etc., concerns have been expressed among engineers that there might be a risk of a video version of “loudness” until such time as an international RECommendation on operational practices for HDR-TV is in place akin to EBU R128/BS.1770 Audio Loudness.

“Modelling brightness perception for high dynamic range television”
http://ieeexplore.ieee.org:80/docume...3/?reload=true

Abstract:
High dynamic range (HDR) television offers greater contrast and more immersive images than conventional television, and as such it is an important part of the overall ultra-high definition television package. Standardisation is almost complete, and the industry is already taking the first steps in HDR programme production. The extended dynamic range and brighter screens associated with HDR make sudden jumps in brightness possible. To ensure consistency between programmes and to avoid uncomfortable brightness shifts at programme junctions , some production guidelines are needed for HDR brightness, just as guidelines have been necessary for audio loudness. In order to develop production guidelines for brightness, brightness perception must be understood.

In this paper we report the results of subjective tests that measured the overall perceived brightness of a set of HDR images. We then propose ten classes of potential objective metric that relate the displayed pixel luminance levels to the overall subjective brightness level, and evaluate them using our test results as ground truth. The most effective metrics tested are the mean of the pixel luminances, the mean of the pixel luminances raised to the power of 0.82, and the 96th percentile of pixel luminances, all of which performed similarly well. The mean displayed pixel luminance is preferred, since it is the simplest to implement. The effectiveness of these simple objective metrics suggests that real-time brightness monitoring in production is a realistic goal.

short form video -
https://www.facebook.com/BBCResearch...8222961002496/

[Penton-Man]

More HDR progress.
Refining what we’ve got….
https://www.itu.int/md/meetingdoc.as...oration%20(BBC)

[Penton-Man]

Later, work beckons.

[DanBa]

Originally Posted by BrownianMotion

Ericsson also showed its Intelligent Tone Mapping technology which can convert between all the different flavours of HDR, in production, in transmission or in the viewer's home. We also heard the intriguing comment that "the advantage of HDR10+ is that it's not difficult to take the metadata from Dolby Vision and interpret it to HDR10+".
https://www.displaydaily.com/article...ym-soup-at-ibc

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Hmm, then why was Mark H. (https://www.linkedin.com/in/mark-hor...82a2797/?ppe=1 ) so frustrated during the panel and even calling on Craig T. to itemize all the various HDR choices in a differentiating fashion, as previously pointed out -

+1

Dolby Vision dynamic metadata can't completely determine the Dolby Vision tone / gamut mapping.

The Dolby Vision dynamic metadata specification and the Dolby Vision tone / gamut mapping specification can.
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...0#post13933350
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...2#post13938772
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...0#post13941130

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by BrownianMotion

It doesn't need to use the Dolby Vision tone mapping. It just needs to read/use the Dolby Vision dynamic metadata and interpret it to HDR10+.

Still won't make it 12-bit.

[DanBa]

Originally Posted by BrownianMotion

It doesn't need to use the Dolby Vision tone mapping. It just needs to read/use the Dolby Vision dynamic metadata and interpret it to HDR10+.

Like SDR, HDR is an end-to-end system.


https://www.itu.int/dms_pub/itu-r/op...2016-PDF-E.pdf

At one end, post-production people have to know what is the rendering result (i.e. tone / gamut mapping or display adaptation in the case of HDR) at the TV end.





"In the making of commercial images the only thing that matters is what happens at the approval process. Everything that happens downstream of this should not alter this image." In other words, the "artistry" happens in mastering process and once approved, should be faithfully delivered to the end user."
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/465-hi...l#post50666105

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by BrownianMotion

I don't think that should be of concern to anybody at this point.

Sounds like Apple PR excuses when they were offering 720p as the max HD resolution back when Blu-ray first came out.


Displays will be true 12-bit soon enough. Most displays now accept the signal and downconvert accordingly.


Instead of saddling the market with yet another HDR solution that does NOT offer picture improvements Samsung should get with the program.