HDR Discussion Thread

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

At thee upcoming NAB, precisely here, the UltraHD Forum will have demos including the showing of HLG content.
HLG continues to be studied at the international standards working group level….
https://www.itu.int/md/R15-WP6C-C-0213/en

For those locals unable to attend NAB 2017, as an alternative, heads-up and mark your calendars as the tickets (3/28) for the gala screening of The Circle will probably go quickly….https://tribecafilm.com/filmguide/circle-2017

Although not shown in HDR, it’s shot by Matty.

*the cast includes the late Bill Paxton

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by puddy77

CinemaCon: Sony to Unveil Laser Projector - I assume it might go in the above Sphera theaters. But it could possibly make its way to other "premium large format theaters." Like has anyone ever heard of Cinemark's proprietary HDR system? Is theatrical HDR going to become splintered factions like the audio systems (Dolby vs DTS vs Auro)? Any chance of a standardized theatrical HDR?

The NGCD is working on it so I think that in a few years we will see a standard HDR format for movie theaters.

Originally Posted by ray0414

Clearly Dolby is making financial statements. Can't go around knocking a tv that makes them money

It makes economic sense that Dolby wants to defend the companies that are using Dolby Vision but it is still amazing to see them make contradictory statements on color volume in less than a year. If Dolby thinks that specular highlights don't need bright saturated colors than everything they said about the use of system gamma with HLG was wrong. The argument for bright saturated colors a year ago used a 10,000 nits example but now Dolby is saying that bright saturated colors aren't even needed for a 700 nits OLED TV. I am curious to see if Dolby's future articles on color volume go with the new opinion from the recent article or if they go back to the old opinion.

[Gaius Baltar]

Hello all,

Just a question regarding HDR formats and their importance; I am currently able to get a LG B6 OLED for $3000 (Australia) which has HDR10 and Dolby Vision. However, in around a month's time the 2017 model (B7) is meant to release at $4200 and have Technicolor and HLG HDR features in addition to the ones on the 2016 B6.

My question is how much will I miss these two additional HDR formats on 4K discs going forward? I don't want to find out in a year that the 4K release I've been waiting for only has HLG HDR, and is thus incompatible with my set.

I'm fine with waiting until the '17 models release if it will really make a difference, but on the other hand if it isn't important I'd be happy to save $1200 and get a set now.

Cheers.

[SPIDERone]

Originally Posted by Gaius Baltar

Hello all,

Just a question regarding HDR formats and their importance; I am currently able to get a LG B6 OLED for $3000 (Australia) which has HDR10 and Dolby Vision. However, in around a month's time the 2017 model (B7) is meant to release at $4200 and have Technicolor and HLG HDR features in addition to the ones on the 2016 B6.

My question is how much will I miss these two additional HDR formats on 4K discs going forward? I don't want to find out in a year that the 4K release I've been waiting for only has HLG HDR, and is thus incompatible with my set.

I'm fine with waiting until the '17 models release if it will really make a difference, but on the other hand if it isn't important I'd be happy to save $1200 and get a set now.

Cheers.

Supposedly they'll be adding HLG HDR to the 2016 sets:
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...&id=1484051855

Whether this will actually happen remains to be seen.. I believe SONY said the same about adding HDR to one of their older models and I don't think that ever happened.

With that said, I would assume that most will stick to HDR10. I feel that even Dolby Vision will get somewhat limited support as so many more sets support HDR10.

[Gaius Baltar]

Originally Posted by SPIDERone

Supposedly they'll be adding HLG HDR to the 2016 sets:
http://www.flatpanelshd.com/news.php...&id=1484051855

Whether this will actually happen remains to be seen.. I believe SONY said the same about adding HDR to one of their older models and I don't think that ever happened.

With that said, I would assume that most will stick to HDR10. I feel that even Dolby Vision will get somewhat limited support as so many more sets support HDR10.

That's good to know, thanks Spider.

[puddy77]

Originally Posted by Gaius Baltar

Hello all,

Just a question regarding HDR formats and their importance; I am currently able to get a LG B6 OLED for $3000 (Australia) which has HDR10 and Dolby Vision. However, in around a month's time the 2017 model (B7) is meant to release at $4200 and have Technicolor and HLG HDR features in addition to the ones on the 2016 B6.

My question is how much will I miss these two additional HDR formats on 4K discs going forward? I don't want to find out in a year that the 4K release I've been waiting for only has HLG HDR, and is thus incompatible with my set.

I'm fine with waiting until the '17 models release if it will really make a difference, but on the other hand if it isn't important I'd be happy to save $1200 and get a set now.

Cheers.

Technicolor and HLG are nice for the long term. But right now, there are no sources using either that I know of. HLG will be used for broadcast HDR in Japan and the UK in the near term. Not sure about Australia. And I'm not sure of any source planning to use Technicolor yet. HDR10 and Dolby are the only ones that are going to be used on disc for the foreseeable future.

[DanBa]

Multi-HDR support - Current situation



. HEVC HLG HDR content:
http://4kmedia.org/travelxp-4k-hdr-hlg-sample/

. VP9-PQ YouTube HDR content:
http://www.avsforum.com/forum/161-ca...l#post48695913

. VP9-HLG YouTube HDR content:
https://www.you tube.com/watch?v=cKiKjJVYu8E

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

For those locals

in southern California. A follow-up public service announcement to the Xen

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...300423412.html

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Samsung QLED

With regards to their newest model, the Q7F (55” size), I was PMed this YouTube…..

Samsung Q7F QLED TV Review - YouTube

Point presented to me (starting at about the 2min.45sec. timestamp) was that rtings.com purchased two units and apparently both were significantly out of spec with regards to brightness on a 10% window. If it’s true that Samsung confirmed the validity of rtings.com’s measurement, then -

Some possibilities for the poor outcome:
1. Design flaw
2. Manufacturing process flaw (e.g. affecting lot# ?)
3. Shipping excursion

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

With regards to their newest model, the Q7F (55” size), I was PMed this YouTube…..

For perspective, TV manufacturers are pretty lucky when I think of it. Imagine if only one XEN45 was out of spec causing a malfunction upon injection and damage to intraocular structures. A stop ship would be placed upon the whole lot until the root cause was determined.

[Penton-Man]

On a lighter note, follow-up to ‘increasing public awareness’….
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...s#post13231186

4K Ultra HD Blu-ray - Step into Amazing - YouTube

[Penton-Man]

Since we’re cutting edge with regards to what’s posted in this thread, looking ahead into future video technology -
http://nab17.mapyourshow.com/7_0/ses...scheduleid=116

Later on when I have more time I’ll try to post thumbnails of the sequences chosen to evaluate, at least with regards to HDR performance, new next-gen compression solutions (be it an entirely new codec or an additional extension of HEVC).

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

in southern California. A follow-up public service announcement to the Xen

http://www.prnewswire.com/news-relea...300423412.html

I think readers can see I have a soft spot in my heart for USC . They even exhibit at NAB…. http://nab17.mapyourshow.com/7_0/exh...?ExhID=5172236

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Last night I stopped by my local Best Buy to purchase a small part which I needed quickly. Browsing thru the TV section I overheard a customer talking to the BB employee saying…”I’m in the market for a new television. Are the Samsung QLED tvs a more advanced form of OLED?”

Speaking of which, a couple days later, what a coincidence….. https://www.cepro.com/article/samsun..._open_standard

As to Samsung’s royalty free approach for dynamic HDR, for new readers, we’ve been covering (in writing) the development of ST 2094-40 since the very beginning of the formation of the SMPTE 2094 document suite, even delving at a time into Samsung's SEI payload sequence –

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

but a short video description in an easy to listen to YouTube snippet about how it works was posted here last January for those who may have missed it…. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...g#post13122720

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

SEI

For those unfamiliar with the acronym, SEI stands for supplemental enhancement information (message).

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

NAB2017 - http://ultrahdforum.org/events/nab-2...for-the-forum/

Before then ^…..for those Brits who were astute enough to register (otherwise, join the waiting list now and hope for the best)….”there will be demonstration of a TV set with High Dynamic Range Wide Colour Gamut AND High Frame Rate so you can see what it all looks like”… https://www.smpte.org/sections/unite...nd-future-tv-0

http://www.theiet.org/events/local/245529.cfm

[Richard Paul]

Originally Posted by puddy77

Technicolor and HLG are nice for the long term. But right now, there are no sources using either that I know of. HLG will be used for broadcast HDR in Japan and the UK in the near term. Not sure about Australia. And I'm not sure of any source planning to use Technicolor yet. HDR10 and Dolby are the only ones that are going to be used on disc for the foreseeable future.

HLG is used by two channels at the moment with one in Europe and the other in Japan. A few more channels might use it this year. HLG has been added to ATSC and DVB but it was only done in the last few months and it will take a while before it starts really getting used by the broadcast industry.

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Speaking of which, a couple days later, what a coincidence….. http://www.cepro.com/article/samsung..._open_standard

As to Samsung’s royalty free approach for dynamic HDR, for new readers, we’ve been covering (in writing) the development of ST 2094-40 since the very beginning of the formation of the SMPTE 2094 document suite, even delving at a time into Samsung's SEI payload sequence –

but a short video description in an easy to listen to YouTube snippet about how it works was posted here last January for those who may have missed it…. https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...g#post13122720

With HDR10 Plus being backward compatible and royalty free that should help with support from other companies. It was interesting that the Samsung representative mentioned that it was possible for HDR10 Plus to get added to Ultra HD Blu-ray.

[Geoff D]

I think it's eminently possible, as would be some form of 4K 3D down the road. It's just going to need another long round of discussions and late nights and pressing the flesh and a general consensus before it does.

[puddy77]

SGO has a nice little tutorial series called 101 Guide to HDR. I just watched this one about HLG:

https://vimeo.com/205920453

It brought up an interesting point I never thought about before. HLG is touted for being easier and backwards compatible with SDR. But if they broadcast an HLG Rec.2020 signal, wouldn't they have to create a simultaneous HLG Rec.709 signal? Doesn't that negate the benefits for broadcasters?

[Robert Zohn]

I'm actually presenting on HLG over the existing FHD OTT and OTA circuits at my NAB session.

I'm still learning about the feasibility of including HLG w/P3 over the existing FHD infrastructure, but from what I know so far HLG w/P3 color can co exist on the 6mHz video bandwidth carrier with the HD SDR rec.709 color signal.