HDR Discussion Thread

[Penton-Man]

Note to imdb: you’re missing more than a couple filming locations on your Top Gun: Maverick list - https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1745960...?ref_=tt_dt_dt



To catch up to speed, need to start reading beginning at least 26 pages back….
https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...e#post15709564

and to be really comprehensive, don’t forget to include ocean(s) - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...n#post15794883

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by PaulGo

the fed.

Seems after Kevin Hassett mentioned that the Fed Chairman’s job was safe (despite recent disparaging remarks by someone else in authority) the market has stopped its free-fall and gone up - https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...67.M54CEA4Ba98

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by gkolb

Underground economy. You should see the folks paying in cash at Costco up here. Huge shopping carts or flatbeds.

Even at my local Costco, the customers mostly all use plastic, though I think it’s a Visa or Master Card they get thru Costco. I just try to leave as little digital footprint as I can and use cash as much as possible so as to avoid the hassle of potential hacks.

Sometimes though, it can’t be avoided as that Westin hotel we stayed at up in Vancouver this past summer was part of that 500 million guest Starwood reservation database that Marriott reported this fall was hacked. Prompted me to immediately freeze the card and get a new one.

I don't even use plastic at gas pumps because of those notorious devices they've come up with.

[gkolb]

If you buy your gas at Costco (plastic only) you’ll get Top Tier quality gasoline and the lowest prices that can be had in most of California.

[PaulGo]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

I just try to leave as little digital footprint as I can and use cash as much as possible so as to avoid the hassle of potential hacks.

There are many advantages of using credit cards.
- Cash back - Costco gives you 2% back 3% on meals and travel and 4% on gas plus up to 2 years extended warranty and no foreign transaction fees.

Some other cards have similar benefits.

In all the years I have had credit cards my credit card number got compromised twice and in each instance I was not held responsible.

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Fox as a studio will not exist a year from now.

Warner may not do the enhancement part but they have encoded all their major releases of late in DV, including catalog titles like 2001 and Superman.

Fox will still exist, it will simply be a subsidiary of Disney...

I don't think that will change the commercial agreement between the studio and HDR10+

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

I could see why WB would possibly move to HDR10+ because they haven't ever fully implemented Dolby Vision disc encoding and its benefits. They don't add a 12 bit enhancement layer (which requires a 12 bit or higher video master) and even the latest component video encoding protocol for wide color gamuts (which DV supports), and instead only use the 10 bit dynamic metadata portion, which is all HDR10+ is adding anyway to standard HDR10.

Agreed, Warner already uses DV as if it was HDR10+

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

The problem with the last statement is that if Dolby Vision's premium features are not utilized, you're really not getting the benefits of the format anyway. It's like Dolby Vision in name only, like Dolby Atmos print-outs create Atmos in name only mixes.

Only if the metadata is generated automatically, which it usually is not. 12-bit is icing on the cake, not the meal.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

Fox will still exist, it will simply be a subsidiary of Disney...

I don't think that will change the commercial agreement between the studio and HDR10+

Contracts like that usually don't carry over and Disney absorbs their home video division and takes over authoring. Heck, Pixar used to author their own stuff - nope, not anymore!

Agreed, Warner already uses DV as it was HDR10+

Except they don't.

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Contracts like that usually don't carry over and Disney absorbs their home video division and takes over authoring. Heck, Pixar used to author their own stuff - nope, not anymore!

Except they don't.

Yes they do, Warner uses a simple metadata layer for Dolby Vision, just read a damn disc report...

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by MisterXDTV

Yes they do, Warner uses a simple metadata layer for Dolby Vision, just read a damn disc report...

What do you think the DV layer is? It's metadata.
Except HDR10+ it's auto generated and DV is on a shot by shot basis that can either be automated or done by the mastering operator.

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

What do you think the DV layer is? It's metadata.
Except HDR10+ it's auto generated and DV is on a shot by shot basis that can either be automated or done by the mastering operator.

Ok i will post the report for you to make you see the difference:

Paramount Full 12-bit Dolby Vision encoding (Mission Impossible - Fallout)

Codec                   Bitrate             Description     
-----                   -------             -----------     
MPEG-H HEVC Video       61466 kbps          2160p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / Main 10 Profile 5.1 High / 4:2:0 / 10 bits / HDR / BT.2020 / 
* MPEG-H HEVC Video     6993 kbps           1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / Main 10 Profile 5.1 High / 4:2:0 / 10 bits / Dolby Vision / BT.2020 /

Warner metadata only layer (The Meg)

Codec                   Bitrate             Description     
-----                   -------             -----------     
MPEG-H HEVC Video       47883 kbps          2160p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / Main 10 Profile 5.1 High / 4:2:0 / 10 bits / HDR / BT.2020 / 
* MPEG-H HEVC Video     63 kbps             1080p / 23.976 fps / 16:9 / Main 10 Profile 5.1 High / 4:2:0 / 10 bits / Dolby Vision / BT.2020 /

How do you explain that the Paramount disc has a Dolby Vision layer that is more than 100x bigger than the Warner one???

Is that enough?

6993 kbps vs 63 kbps

Are you telling me DV is used the same way on both discs? Are you kidding me???

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Only if the metadata is generated automatically, which it usually is not. 12-bit is icing on the cake, not the meal.

Every single DV mastering for home video starts out with an automatic analysis of the completed HDR master and subsequent rendition of metadata, this is Level 1. Level 2 metadata involves specific stylistic adjustments for whatever trim pass is being aimed for, and we've no guarantees that this is being done. Indeed, the DV error with burned-in subtitles raising the entire brightness of the scene in an episode of Westworld S2 reeks of metadata that wasn't adjusted to account for the luminance of the subtitles.

But yes, I agree mightily that 12-bit really isn't some life-changing aspect of DV, not now and not when we actually get 12-bit panels. Yes, the 12 bits of DV is what staves off the threat of banding (though if its inherent to the actual source material then not even DV can fix it) but even these '10-bit' versions are still being upsampled to the native 12-bit processing space of DV and output as such which brings that same benefit re: banding.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Seems after Kevin Hassett mentioned that the Fed Chairman’s job was safe (despite recent disparaging remarks by someone else in authority) the market has stopped its free-fall and gone up - https://www.google.com/search?rlz=1C...67.M54CEA4Ba98

Yeah baby, closed 1,084.96 points up
Papa can buy a new pair of shoes.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Waboman

Merry Christmas. Yippee Ki-Yay...

Now I feel like “engaging in heart healthy behavior”, as indicated by this Cardiologist…..
https://theskepticalcardiologist.com...-cardiologist/

[Penton-Man]

With regards to the several imported posts above regarding 12-bit, at least currently with Netflix streaming implementation, don’t forget the value of ICtCp (esp. manifested by less noise in blues as compared to YCbCr) as demo-ed at SMPTE 2017, alluded to by Jacyln in this past interview…. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GwJD5gc4NCA#t=17m41s

[LordoftheRings]

Speaking of Netflix ...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6BS2...ature=youtu.be

_____

Bonus:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uucT...ature=youtu.be

Happy Holidays!

[StingingVelvet]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Fox as a studio will not exist a year from now.

Isn't that a pretty big assumption? Quite possible the continue to function as a studio under the Disney banner, like Disney has done before with other brands.

[Waboman]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Now I feel like “engaging in heart healthy behavior”, as indicated by this Cardiologist…..
https://theskepticalcardiologist.com...-cardiologist/

Tomorrow morning is D day for me. If I don't make it out, carry the HDR torch for me. Maybe even watch something in DV and pour a 40 on an old BD. Oh, and a Coronado growler is always the right choice.

[DisplayCalNoob]

While going over Samsung's pdf file on HDR10+. I noticed, that it never mentioned any mastering nits over 1000 nits. Makes me wonder if there will be some visible artifacts, when 4000 nit grades are played back.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Isn't that a pretty big assumption? Quite possible the continue to function as a studio under the Disney banner, like Disney has done before with other brands.

So far nobody has indicated otherwise.