HDR Discussion Thread

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I'm not sure about your profiles assumption re: discs as the TV is not decoding the disc itself, all the TV is doing over HDMI is basically sending a signal to the player to tell it to decode the DV internally and the player is obliging, sending a pre-mapped output to the TV that is essentially HDR12 in all but name and not strictly a bespoke 'DV' signal any more.

In other words the TV itself doesn't need to be compatible with any particular profile when it comes to UHD discs, just the player? In theory this could extend to any number of DV profiles as long as the player can read and decode them (easier said than done), although where HLG is concerned that may be a profile too far as the TV is still applying the PQ EOTF to the incoming HDR12 DV signal, so if the player is outputting an 'HLG12' DV signal the TV might not know to switch to this other EOTF.

Yes I agree with what you say. I take snippets of notes when I read all this stuff, and from somewhere I somehow noted "Over HDMI, Sony TVs only support Profile 5". That doesn't make sense to Oct2020 "me". Surely it should have been "Over HDMI, Sony TVs only support Player-Led Dolby Vision"

I think I should have noted that a Sony TV's DV engine is really just limited to the "HDR12" signal that the player-LED master device outputs. The player does all the work from every possible Profile, and always outputs the samely formatted simple video to the TV. It means that Sony TVs will never be able to handle Dolby Vision IQ, because that requires "full-fat" Dolby Vision (ie TV-led decoding and the TV doing the tone-mapping and taking into account its unique Peak Luminance capability, and its light sensor).

ps thanks to @puddy77 and @DanBa for the links (it's the same video)

[DanBa]

How is it displayed by your LG C8 2018 TV?

My Dolby Vision/HLG-compliant LG C7 2017 TV can only display this Dolby Vision Profile 8.4 video as HLG HDR, and my SDR PC monitor as HLG SDR.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

ps. Penton-Man your memory continues to astound me!

circa 2016 – 2018: https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...p#post15827744

follow-up recently by Stacey, noting noise in highly saturated reds too - https://forum.doom9.org/showpost.php...0&postcount=23

[Penton-Man]

“While navigating certain capabilities, such as HDR and 4K…..”
https://variety.com/2020/digital/new...on-1234813805/

[DDH]

Originally Posted by DanBa

How is it displayed by your LG C8 2018 TV?

My Dolby Vision/HLG-compliant LG C7 2017 TV can only display this Dolby Vision Profile 8.4 video as HLG HDR, and my SDR PC monitor as HLG SDR.

The planned obsolescence of Dolby with its different profiles and levels.

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by DanBa

How is it displayed by your LG C8 2018 TV?

My Dolby Vision/HLG-compliant LG C7 2017 TV can only display this Dolby Vision Profile 8.4 video as HLG HDR, and my SDR PC monitor as HLG SDR.

Just HLG HDR on my LG C8, unfortunately
Not surprised, because the Profile 8.1 file didn't display as Dolby Vision either: that too was only HDR10 (LG's pop-up info said "HDR" but that label is wrong: HDR is the special umbrella term, and should not be used as some kind of lazy synonym for HDR10).

Dolby/LG needs to fix this so that Profile 8 (all variants) work correctly on a Dolby Vision TV.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by puddy77

Ah, a Chinese vid

To some, it may seem significant that the RPUs - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...t#post18225751

of the iPhone 12 Dolby Profile 8.4 are not quite as comprehensive as that utilized on some UHD BD movies - https://www.makemkv.com/forum/viewto...b5e&start=3450

However, I doubt Shraddha Pai feels deterred by that given her team’s accomplishment resulting from Apple’s collaboration with Dolby. With time, it’s hoped that the exported video file can be viewed on a variety of devices and screens, as the HLG curve meets this demand.

[Penton-Man]

gkolb, how good is your memory to words posted on this thread dating back nearly 4 years ago regarding a *lifetime of training* in reference to these particular few seconds of Raya’s trailer - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9BPMTr-NS9s#t=1m11s
from - https://disneyanimation.com/

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by DDH

The planned obsolescence of Dolby with its different profiles and levels.

How so?
They're adding capabilities to devices that didn't have DV capability years ago, like the iPhones. I haven't seen them stop supporting DV from disc or streaming because of this.

[DDH]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

How so?
They're adding capabilities to devices that didn't have DV capability years ago, like the iPhones. I haven't seen them stop supporting DV from disc or streaming because of this.

Insofar as dolby gives a DV certification on a device, without specifying the compatibility with the other devices with the DV logo, it is misleading the consumer.
Either Dolby must make updates, which it does not do, or inform the consumer about the limit of its certifications, possibly indicating the profiles.

You have the example above in the messages of DanBa and mrtickleuk, two generations of tv which will not read profiles 8.
You still have proof of this with the xbox one X / S DV which are not compatible with all DV TVs but only a limited number.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

this open letter -

^ Seriously?, given work cira 2010 introduced in 2011 -

CES 2011: Sony Glasses-free 3D LCD Display - YouTube

and you know what they say -

Developer vs QA - YouTube

for those who didn't understand this ^ post from a week ago, seems others found the open letter from dimenco to be a bit snarky too - https://www.displaydaily.com/article...re-watching-me

[Penton-Man]

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...s#post18173129
^ -> reminder for next week, there are 2 sessions (scroll to the bottom in puddy's link) on Working in Dolby Vision with discussion with regards to a netflix TV series and StudioCanal's experience in remastering of their catalogue to HDR

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

for those who didn't understand this ^ post from a week ago, seems others found the open letter from dimenco to be a bit snarky too - https://www.displaydaily.com/article...re-watching-me

I think Sony should be prepared to take it on the chin, especially given their past arrogant behaviour. Early in the life of the Playstation, they had the bare-faced cheek to imply that they were not the new kids, with huge "Sony Welcomes Sega to WCES" banners and paraphernalia everywhere (this was in 1995 from what I can now find - I just remember reading it at the time). Back then, Sega and Nintendo accounted for 90% of the market, Sony were little pipsqueaks who thought they could just waltz in and launch a games console where many others had also tried to topple Sega and Nintendo - companies like 3DO for example.

So I say, good on Dimenco!

[DDH]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

Just HLG HDR on my LG C8, unfortunately
Not surprised, because the Profile 8.1 file didn't display as Dolby Vision either: that too was only HDR10 (LG's pop-up info said "HDR" but that label is wrong: HDR is the special umbrella term, and should not be used as some kind of lazy synonym for HDR10).

Dolby/LG needs to fix this so that Profile 8 (all variants) work correctly on a Dolby Vision TV.

On a French forum, the video filmed in dolby vision profile 8.4 with an iPhone 12 reads well in dolby vision format on an LG Oled 55C9.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

I think Sony should be prepared to take it on the chin, especially given their past arrogant behaviour. Early in the life of the Playstation, they had the bare-faced cheek to imply that they were not the new kids, with huge "Sony Welcomes Sega to WCES" banners and paraphernalia everywhere (this was in 1995 from what I can now find - I just remember reading it at the time). Back then, Sega and Nintendo accounted for 90% of the market, Sony were little pipsqueaks who thought they could just waltz in and launch a games console where many others had also tried to topple Sega and Nintendo - companies like 3DO for example.

So I say, good on Dimenco!

Fair point mrtickle . But I wonder if the same people responsible for that in Sony Computer Entertainment back then, still remain there. What bugs me about SCE is that with regards to this thread - https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread.php?t=33108

a representation from that division gave the unambiguous impression (executive to executive) the willingness to participate in the Insider’s forum back in the day – https://forum.blu-ray.com/forumdisplay.php?f=61
but never showed.
A bit uppity to say the least.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by DDH

video filmed in dolby vision profile 8.4 with an iPhone 12

consists of 3 sets of metadata each serving a different function

[JohnAV]

HDMI 2.1 was so ready

Broken HDMI 2.1: Next Gen Gaming Confounds Denon Marantz & Yamaha - YouTube

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

consists of 3 sets of metadata each serving a different function

I recall that DV carries the metadata in triplicate for purposes of redundancy, this is something different?

[DDH]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

consists of 3 sets of metadata each serving a different function

Quite DV/HLG HDR/HLG SDR.

I just wanted to underline that with the file indicated by puddy77 on an LG C9 tv we did have the DV logo appearing.

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by DDH

Insofar as dolby gives a DV certification on a device, without specifying the compatibility with the other devices with the DV logo, it is misleading the consumer.
Either Dolby must make updates, which it does not do, or inform the consumer about the limit of its certifications, possibly indicating the profiles.

That is still not what "planned obsolescence" means.

Reality is it's a single type of device, new to the market and not widely used yet, has playback issues on some devices with the logo. And so far we haven't heard if those devices will not receive updates to change that.

You still have proof of this with the xbox one X / S DV which are not compatible with all DV TVs but only a limited number.

XBOX One DV was added after the fact - it was never marketed as a Dolby Vision certified device and no logo on its packaging. My 2016 Sony can display it so it sounds like the ones that can't need a firmware update, and that is on those TV manufacturers.