Because Blu-Ray will "obviously" be replaced rapidly by streaming only...

[vargo]

Originally Posted by CraigW

Steedeel,

Streaming will be with us in the future, but as a replacement to the rental system. Streaming doesn't satisfy collectors and most collectors don't like the idea of paying a fee everytime they want to watch their favorite films.

Streaming and digital distribution will be a replacement for purchasing, not just rental.

Collectors are <5% of the market.

The majority of movie watchers are consumers. They enjoy the experience of watching a movie. If they bought physical media in the past it is only because it gives them the opportunity to watch a movie whenever they want. They don't care whether there's a dumb plastic box on the shelf or not. Give them a service where they feel like they 'own' the movie and can watch it whenever they like and they won't care if it is on a disc, streamed, pre-cached locally, whatever.

This already works with Steam. Every PC gamer uses it, nobody cares whether they get a plastic disc any more.

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by vargo

Streaming and digital distribution will be a replacement for purchasing, not just rental.

Collectors are <5% of the market.

The majority of movie watchers are consumers. They enjoy the experience of watching a movie. If they bought physical media in the past it is only because it gives them the opportunity to watch a movie whenever they want. They don't care whether there's a dumb plastic box on the shelf or not. Give them a service where they feel like they 'own' the movie and can watch it whenever they like and they won't care if it is on a disc, streamed, pre-cached locally, whatever.

This already works with Steam. Every PC gamer uses it, nobody cares whether they get a plastic disc any more.

lol, PC gaming has literally fallen off the map almost. it's only a VERY small percentage of the gaming revenue. inconsequential at best. I was an AVID PC gamer for over 12 years and I can tell you this, PC gaming is a ghost town. as for steam, it and the other digital distribution methods of gaming is THE reason I quit PC gaming....no physical = no pay

and RIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT , digital sell through is gonna go over with collectors. you DO realize that collectors make up 80% of the sell through profits in all cases but the ultra mega blockbusters????? they'er the tentpole of the freaking sell through industry.

[mywhitenoise]

This thread, and the mods on this site are ridiculous.

I got suspended for a week for bringing up the very real possibility that physical media will be on it's way to extinction within the next 10 years, and yet "Blu-Ray Knight" Anthony P gets away with insulting me, without any suspension. Beautiful! You have an opinion, as long as it's in favor of blu-ray disc, however if you question traditions...you're going to get your mouth shut. We can't have mature discussion about digital media, unless it's bashing it (as the topic title "obviously" implies).

Blu-ray.com is the new Pyongyong.

[vargo]

Originally Posted by wormraper

lol, PC gaming has literally fallen off the map almost. it's only a VERY small percentage of the gaming revenue. inconsequential at best. I was an AVID PC gamer for over 12 years and I can tell you this, PC gaming is a ghost town. as for steam, it and the other digital distribution methods of gaming is THE reason I quit PC gaming....no physical = no pay

The health of the PC market is irrelevant to my point. The only thing that is relevant is that the naysayers said that nobody would accept Steam, with all the same arguments about ownership, trading, bandwidth and collectors blah blah. And they were all wrong, Steam is massively successful.

and RIIIIIIIIIIIIGHT , digital sell through is gonna go over with collectors. you DO realize that collectors make up 80% of the sell through profits in all cases but the ultra mega blockbusters????? they'er the tentpole of the freaking sell through industry.

Nope.

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by vargo

The health of the PC market is irrelevant to my point. The only thing that is relevant is that the naysayers said that nobody would accept Steam, with all the same arguments about ownership, trading, bandwidth and collectors blah blah. And they were all wrong, Steam is massively successful.



Nope.

yeah, and I'm saying a good chunk of the reason why PC games are failing is BECAUSE of the switch to steam

and as for the "nope" look at the sales numbers for digital sell through. i'ts PAINFULLY obvious that it's dead in the water. this whole "digital is going to take over all media" is pretty much a circle jerk for only a few people

[Tok]

Originally Posted by vargo

Streaming and digital distribution will be a replacement for purchasing, not just rental.

Collectors are <5% of the market.

The majority of movie watchers are consumers. They enjoy the experience of watching a movie. If they bought physical media in the past it is only because it gives them the opportunity to watch a movie whenever they want. They don't care whether there's a dumb plastic box on the shelf or not. Give them a service where they feel like they 'own' the movie and can watch it whenever they like and they won't care if it is on a disc, streamed, pre-cached locally, whatever.

This already works with Steam. Every PC gamer uses it, nobody cares whether they get a plastic disc any more.

If collectors are such a small part of the market then why is sell through on disc still the biggest revenue stream for the distribution to homes. Although disc sales are down its still a several billion dollars per year business. And if we transition to 4K, I don't believe for a minute that the ISPs are going to be able to handle the bandwidth of millions of users streaming downloading 4K content.

As wormraper pointed out, the PC game market is a shell of what it was. Most gamers moved to consoles. I'll believe it when the next gen consoles have no physical media readers built into them. It's been hinted at with a lot of backlash from the gaming community.

iTunes, Vudu and CinemaNow have not killed the disc business yet. I haven't seen any studios hint at not releasing discs. iTunes is not part of the UV system. Not all titles on Vudu and CinemaNow are part of the UV system. There are still too many questions to be answered in what the studios will allow if we go all streaming. I don't like the thought of the studios deciding that some or all titles becoming rental only. The early DVD enthusiasts fought against the ill-conceived DIVX model. I don't like the idea of having to pay every time I push play. I am sure that is the ultimate solution for the studios.

[mywhitenoise]

Originally Posted by wormraper

yeah, and I'm saying a good chunk of the reason why PC games are failing is BECAUSE of the switch to steam

and as for the "nope" look at the sales numbers for digital sell through. i'ts PAINFULLY obvious that it's dead in the water. this whole "digital is going to take over all media" is pretty much a circle jerk for only a few people

PC games aren't failing, are you kidding me!? Sales are failing, but not the audience.

I dare you to find me a multiplatform game that has a stronger community on PS3, or 360 than on the PC. I'm a console gamer myself, but I'm not about to claim we have it better...not by a long shot.

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by mywhitenoise

PC games aren't failing, are you kidding me!? Sales are failing, but not the audience.

I dare you to find me a multiplatform game that has a stronger community on PS3, or 360 than on the PC. I'm a console gamer myself, but I'm not about to claim we have it better...not by a long shot.

ummm sales are failing, that's the DEFINITION of pc games failing. each year less and less people are gaming on the pc, sales are falling each year. PC gaming still has a hardcore niche group of people who are viciously fighting the inevitable, but due to a lot of business decisions (Steam style of ownership included) they've lost all but the hardcore

10 years ago, the PC gaming market was HUGE. all the best games came out on PC, now everything is gimped for consoles and most people I know besides ONE person jumped ship for consoles because of issues with Steam or because the games started drying up. if it wasn't for MMO's the pc gaming market may as well have been done

[mywhitenoise]

Originally Posted by wormraper

ummm sales are failing, that's the DEFINITION of pc games failing. each year less and less people are gaming on the pc, sales are falling each year. PC gaming still has a hardcore niche group of people who are viciously fighting the inevitable, but due to a lot of business decisions (Steam style of ownership included) they've lost all but the hardcore

Lost sales does not mean lost interest. Look at music for example, the music industry doesn't make shit anymore...yet music is more widespread than ever. Because of piracy I've found hundreds of artists I would have never bothered checking out otherwise, and because of that I now go to more concerts. Same thing can be applied to gaming, more games being played because it's so much easier to get them.

[KRW1]

Originally Posted by vargo

The health of the PC market is irrelevant to my point. The only thing that is relevant is that the naysayers said that nobody would accept Steam, with all the same arguments about ownership, trading, bandwidth and collectors blah blah. And they were all wrong, Steam is massively successful.



Nope.

....and the fact that PC gaming died along with the introduction of Steam pretty much proves them right all along, doesn't it?

This is poor, desperate stuff from the streaming zealots. Amazing scenes!

Music is 'more widespread' than ever because of piracy and this means downloading is, um, what?

The biggest problem with downloading to buy is that they can't get people like me on board, the early adaptors, we're the ones that spent $700 on a DVD player and bought $50 discs. I spend about $300+ a month on films and have never spent anything on downloading one to keep and never will. I've been through 5 bluray players and still want to upgrade. I'm still using the PC I had in 2004 and won't be upgrading that until it dies. I suspect I'll be dead before they stop making discs and if they stopped tomorrow I'd spend the rest of my life buying the discs on my want list. How are they going to get me on board?

Streaming is fine for rental. No question. But buying...nope.

[cpr3584]

studios are already trying to get people to switch to digital by offering films by various providers 1-2 weeks ahead of the BD release. I experimented with UV/VUDU until i realized it was a scam to keep people from sharing content with each other, keep production costs down and get you to buy the same movie twice (disc to digital services)

[Clark Kent]

The studios would definitely love for everyone to switch to streaming down the road, if customers would keep the same pack of consumer behaviors they have with physical media. Hollywood executives have always dreamed about cutting out middlemen like retail stores, selling directly to the customer.

Though some are worried that a complete switch to streaming and downloads would likely kill the collector mentality and convert everyone to being a renter, which would seriously hurt revenues.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by KRW1

....and the fact that PC gaming died along with the introduction of Steam pretty much proves them right all along, doesn't it?

This is poor, desperate stuff from the streaming zealots. Amazing scenes!

Music is 'more widespread' than ever because of piracy and this means downloading is, um, what?

The biggest problem with downloading to buy is that they can't get people like me on board, the early adaptors, we're the ones that spent $700 on a DVD player and bought $50 discs. I spend about $300+ a month on films and have never spent anything on downloading one to keep and never will. I've been through 5 bluray players and still want to upgrade. I'm still using the PC I had in 2004 and won't be upgrading that until it dies. I suspect I'll be dead before they stop making discs and if they stopped tomorrow I'd spend the rest of my life

buying the discs on my want list. How are they going to get me on board?

Streaming is fine for rental. No question. But buying...nope.

Exactly my stance. People may rib me for this but I do not care. I love to stand back and look at my collection. I love to put my films in order of genre. I love the feeling of unwrapping the 50 odd discs I get through the post each year. I love looking at my shiny black home cinema equipment. I love the smell of my home cinema kit. I love the smell of my bluray packaging. I love the sense of pride when I upgrade my kit. I love slotting my watched disc back on the shelf in its right place when finished. I love that feeling of surround sound that ONLY Blu-ray Disc provides at home. I love the excitement of watching a film I have been waiting for. I love the chocolate biscuits I eat whilst enjoying my movie. I love the coffee I drink, I love the occasional pizza I enjoy when engrossed in Bluray's glorious picture quality. I love how the dark knight rises looks on my set up. I love knowing that I am going to get 1080p in very high quality period! Yes, I think it is fair to say I love bluray and never want it to go away.

[vargo]

Originally Posted by KRW1

....and the fact that PC gaming died along with the introduction of Steam pretty much proves them right all along, doesn't it?

There's 50 million users on Steam. 30 million on Origin.

And you're seriously saying that people who thought digital distribution would not succeed were right? If that's what you are saying then you are delusional. People who thought they cared about a plastic disc have realised they don't.

[Steedeel]

Maybe that guy above still cares? (Me). Don't underestimate how many people care. Games collection and film collection is completely different. Films are for life. Games, once completed are useless to most.

[ElliesDad]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

[Show spoiler]Exactly my stance. People may rib me for this but I do not care. I love to stand back and look at my collection. I love to put my films in order of genre. I love the feeling of unwrapping the 50 odd discs I get through the post each year. I love looking at my shiny black home cinema equipment. I love the smell of my home cinema kit. I love the smell of my bluray packaging. I love the sense of pride when I upgrade my kit. I love slotting my watched disc back on the shelf in its right place when finished. I love that feeling of surround sound that ONLY Blu-ray Disc provides at home. I love the excitement of watching a film I have been waiting for. I love the chocolate biscuits I eat whilst enjoying my movie. I love the coffee I drink, I love the occasional pizza I enjoy when engrossed in Bluray's glorious picture quality. I love how the dark knight rises looks on my set up. I love knowing that I am going to get 1080p in very high quality period! Yes, I think it is fair to say I love bluray and never want it to go away.

Pretty much sums it up!

As to the original thread title:

A false dilemma (also called false dichotomy, the either-or fallacy, fallacy of false choice, black-and/or-white thinking, or the fallacy of exhaustive hypotheses) is a type of informal fallacy that involves a situation in which limited alternatives are considered, when in fact there is at least one additional option. The options may be a position that is between two extremes (such as when there are shades of grey) or may be completely different alternatives. (Wikipedia: List of Fallacies)

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by CraigW

Steedeel,

Streaming will be with us in the future, but as a replacement to the rental system. Streaming doesn't satisfy collectors and most collectors don't like the idea of paying a fee everytime they want to watch their favorite films.

Also you have to realize there are some on this board with an agenda and/or still have an axe to grind due to BD winning the format battle.

Look until someone announces they are no longer going to produce discs I wouldn't lose sleep over it.

The majority of the revenue generated in the home video industry is from selling physical media directly to consumers and it has been that way since DVD. Sure the gravy days are over, but for as much as the studio system fought it at first it ended up being their major source of revenue.

The studios are walking a fine line if they are considering eliminating physical media in favor of streaming services. PPV didn't kill VHS or DVD and I don't expect Netflix/Vudu/CinemaNow/UV to kill the Blu-ray disc.

I agree, streaming is the replacement to actual disc rentals. The margins are just so much higher than a disc from a machine. I remember when Blockbuster was everywhere, my small town had one, now it is closed. I have no problem whatsoever with streaming or downloading for my rental habits. ITunes has good enough quality for my rental habits

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

The studios would definitely love for everyone to switch to streaming down the road, if customers would keep the same pack of consumer behaviors they have with physical media. Hollywood executives have always dreamed about cutting out middlemen like retail stores, selling directly to the customer.

Though some are worried that a complete switch to streaming and downloads would likely kill the collector mentality and convert everyone to being a renter, which would seriously hurt revenues.

There will always be middleman. What is the difference between Walmart and Vudu? Bestbuy and Cinemanow? Amazon and Amazon Instant video?.....

as for killing the collector mentality. Obviously it would, I buy films so that I can watch what I want when I want, that is why I am willing to pay more for that convenience. That would not exist with a streaming or DL service. Why would I pay many times more (some times more than 10x) if I can go and try and see a film and the service is down? my internet connection is down? the place I bought it from no longer has a deal with the studio and so the content was pulled...... The only reason to buy films is gone.

[Anthony P]

Originally Posted by vargo

There's 50 million users on Steam. 30 million on Origin.

And you're seriously saying that people who thought digital distribution would not succeed were right? If that's what you are saying then you are delusional. People who thought they cared about a plastic disc have realised they don't.

and there were 90M on PSN a year ago alone and that is only one of the consoles. No one plays games on a PC any more there are 7B people and you think those 50M are a lot? Plus steam does not mean DL, you can actually buy some of those games in stores and then just use the code that came with it on steam to activate the game.

[mywhitenoise]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Maybe that guy above still cares? (Me). Don't underestimate how many people care. Games collection and film collection is completely different. Films are for life. Games, once completed are useless to most.

And you know what is far more important than films? Music. How's that music collection coming along?