Because Blu-Ray will "obviously" be replaced rapidly by streaming only...

[KRW1]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

It looks like streaming already has a heads up over physical media, Argo Anna Karenina got an early release on iTunes/CinemaNow/Cineplex this week. Although, it is purchase only and not yet available for rental.

They do that in the UK quite a lot. Berebian Sound Studio was available to rent the same time it was at the cinema. I rented it for £8, watched it on my big screen and then bought the disc on release.

They've been doing what you describe for quite a while but no-one is really bothered as anyone who wants to buy the movie is waiting for a disc release. The fact that you think this is a new thing says volumes. Streaming is for rental not for buying.

http://www.drake.org.uk/2012/11/itun...-itunes-chart/

As a collector of physical media, I am constantly bombarded by companies trying to make me part with my cash for new editions of films, new projectors, new disc players and so on. Why is no-one trying to make me spend money on downloading films to buy when, as you point out, they're already available and before the disc versions? Is it because they've decided I'm a lost cause? That's a big problem and one, ultimately, that isn't solvable.

[ack_bak]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

It looks like streaming already has a heads up over physical media, Argo Anna Karenina got an early release on iTunes/CinemaNow/Cineplex this week. Although, it is purchase only and not yet available for rental.

Because the studios have to do something to give digital a shot in the arm. The sales of digital movies were horrible in 2012. 90% of all sales transactions last year were for TV shows. Movies just don't sell on digital. I doubt this move will translate to much especially considering the movie only made $12M at the box office.

https://www.npd.com/wps/portal/npd/u...re-of-revenue/

while in the EST arena, 90 percent of the transactions were TV programs.

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by ack_bak

Because the studios have to do something to give digital a shot in the arm. The sales of digital movies were horrible in 2012. 90% of all sales transactions last year were for TV shows. Movies just don't sell on digital. I doubt this move will translate to much especially considering the movie only made $12M at the box office.

https://www.npd.com/wps/portal/npd/u...re-of-revenue/

That was an interesting article. I did note it stated that Americans aren't fully comfortable yet with downloading but it appears that it is a 60/40 split right now. Should be getting closer to 50/50 within a few years

[Steedeel]

About 2030 roughly

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Page master nobody is buying download to own in any numbers. It ain't working. Dead in the water. Bluray is the only way if you want high quality.

Bluray forever!

Forever's a pretty long time.

[ack_bak]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

That was an interesting article. I did note it stated that Americans aren't fully comfortable yet with downloading but it appears that it is a 60/40 split right now. Should be getting closer to 50/50 within a few years

If you are talking about sales (not rentals/streaming revenue) the revenue numbers are not even close for optical vs digital.

I was pretty surprised to see how much of the EST sales for digital were TV shows. I guess it makes sense when you consider most people with portable (tablets, smartphones) are not going to watch for more than an hour on the device vs a TV show which is 20-40 minutes. But if the studios cannot convince people to buy movies via EST, the growth for EST will be very limited as I could see more people deciding to rent to stream TV shows vs buying them.

I just don't see EST as being all rosy. There are definitely some major hurdles to overcome and the studios. They 100% need a single standard and UV has been, for me, a disappointment up to this point.

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by ack_bak

I just don't see EST as being all rosy. There are definitely some major hurdles to overcome and the studios. They 100% need a single standard and UV has been, for me, a disappointment up to this point.

I don't think the hurdles are that big, one of the biggest things going for EST is that the movie studios now include a digital version of the movie with your blu-ray purchase. I received my first digital copy with my dvd purchase of The Incredible Shrinking Man, it was a standard version on iTunes and I was surprised at how much I like the idea of digital downloading, with that being said, I had only watched one movie up until that point off of iTunes....now I am kinda hooked, my next two movies will be No Holds Barred and Perks of a Wall Flower, both will be iTunes HD download rentals. I won't even give RedBox and consideration.

Buying physical media will likely become a distant thing for me as I start to embrace renting off of iTunes more frequently. Physical renting of media is already a non option as there are no more Blockbusters in my area or any place to rent other than RedBox.

This is not to say I will not buy blu rays going forward, I own over 1500 laserdisc movies, 2000 dvds, and around 25 purchased blu ray movies, I bought a few blu rays of 007 for $6.99 and movies like The Dark Knight Rises begs to be watched on blu ray, but I can't say blu ray is a powerful enough media option to buy blindly, especially at full price. The future of movie watching at home will be renting via digital, and digital renting will pass blu ray purchases eventually, here is a great article http://www.homemediamagazine.com/ind...ugh-2013-29641

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

I don't think the hurdles are that big, one of the biggest things going for EST is that the movie studios now include a digital version of the movie with your blu-ray purchase. I received my first digital copy with my dvd purchase of The Incredible Shrinking Man, it was a standard version on iTunes and I was surprised at how much I like the idea of digital downloading, with that being said, I had only watched one movie up until that point off of iTunes....now I am kinda hooked, my next two movies will be No Holds Barred and Perks of a Wall Flower, both will be iTunes HD download rentals. I won't even give RedBox and consideration.

Buying physical media will likely become a distant thing for me as I start to embrace renting off of iTunes more frequently. Physical renting of media is already a non option as there are no more Blockbusters in my area or any place to rent other than RedBox.

This is not to say I will not buy blu rays going forward, I bought a few blu rays of 007 for $6.99 and movies like The Dark Knight Rises begs to be watched on blu ray, but I can't say blu ray is a powerful enough media option to buy blindly.

why wouldn't you consider redbox? a $1.50 for a rental sounds a lot better than the Itunes rape prices

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by wormraper

why wouldn't you consider redbox? a $1.50 for a rental sounds a lot better than the Itunes rape prices

It started when I couldn't find Return to Paradise, Running Scared, or No Holds Barred at Redbox, but I conveniently found them on iTunes. Back in the day I would of had no problem finding them at my local Blockbuster, that of course if they were not already checked out. Perks of a Wallflower I'd like to see on Blu ray.

[Steedeel]

I guessed that you did not own many blurays. Many of us own a truckload and will own even more in five years. It goes back to the collector thing. I enjoy watching movies more than once. I can't get past the crude look of streaming when it comes to colour variants and difficult scenes. It has no place in my home cinema.

[arrow61095]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

.......
Buying physical media will likely become a distant thing for me as I start to embrace renting off of iTunes more frequently. Physical renting of media is already a non option as there are no more Blockbusters in my area or any place to rent other than RedBox.

.....

Personally, I expect the security restrictions for digital downloading to get even more stringent in the future.

Obviously, these are probably not questions that you can answer but digital downloading leaves me with:

1. Can you backup your downloaded movies? --- nope (I expect this kind of thing to become extremely limited in the future ---- because otherwise, people could use this to pirate films)

2. What if your computer crashes?

3. What if someone hacks your ITunes account?

4. What if you get a new computer or want to watch on another computer? (I expect this kind of thing to become extremely limited in the future ---- because otherwise, people could use this to pirate films)

5. What if ITunes takes the movie you bought off of their servers to update/make new space for more recent movies?

[arrow61095]

Originally Posted by arrow61095

Personally, I expect the security restrictions for digital downloading to get even more stringent in the future.

Obviously, these are probably not questions that you can answer but digital downloading leaves me with:

1. Can you backup your downloaded movies? --- nope (I expect this kind of thing to become extremely limited in the future ---- because otherwise, people could use this to pirate films)

2. What if your computer crashes?

3. What if someone hacks your ITunes account?

4. What if you get a new computer or want to watch on another computer? (I expect this kind of thing to become extremely limited in the future ---- because otherwise, people could use this to pirate films)

5. What if ITunes takes the movie you bought off of their servers to update/make new space for more recent movies?

----------------Believe it or not, I have actually already had these types of problems occur for me with digital download (on a minor scale).

I bought one of the original PS3s when they first came out. I purchased 2 TV episodes for digital download. About 3 years later, I purchased a new PS3. Guess what, I can't watch the videos on my new PS3 due to write protection. I even tried backing up my original PS3 and restoring the backup onto my new PS3 - didn't work. To watch on my new PS3, I would have to buy a 2nd copy of them. About 9 months ago, my original PS3 broke. I fixed it, but I had to re-format the hard drive and the 2 downloads are no longer available on Sony's servers, so I can't re-download them.

So, basically I wasted the money for them (but it was just 2 TV episodes from 4-5 years ago) so it wasn't worth fighting/arguing about. Since then, I just went and bought the seasons on dvd used for $5 a season. Still, if this happened to my whole movie collection, I would be furious and arguing and fighting.

I realize that not every digital download service is this way, but with how paranoid the movie studios are about piracy (look at how some of them even go after short clips on you-tube), I definitely see the digital download industry trending in that direction.

Since then, I will use digital download/streaming to rent, but I want a physical copy of what I own.

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by arrow61095

Personally, I expect the security restrictions for digital downloading to get even more stringent in the future.

Obviously, these are probably not questions that you can answer but digital downloading leaves me with:

1. Can you backup your downloaded movies? --- nope (I expect this kind of thing to become extremely limited in the future ---- because otherwise, people could use this to pirate films)

2. What if your computer crashes?

3. What if someone hacks your ITunes account?

4. What if you get a new computer or want to watch on another computer? (I expect this kind of thing to become extremely limited in the future ---- because otherwise, people could use this to pirate films)

5. What if ITunes takes the movie you bought off of their servers to update/make new space for more recent movies?

None of these really worry me. The iTunes FAQ mentions that you can back up your movies to a hard drive or dvd. It also states that you do not need to repurchase the movie if you buy a new device such as an iPad or iPod.

Also, most of the services allows you to authorize up to 5 different devices. No need to use the same device to watch your content everytime and somebody else in the household can watch on a different device.

Originally Posted by arrow61095

-
Since then, I will use digital download/streaming to rent, but I want a physical copy of what I own.

As far as I'm concerned, I have switched over from a collecting viewer (laserdisc/dvd) to a viewer/consumer....There are a few movies that I still want to own and for the most part I will purchase the physical disc if I have seen the movie prior or if the disc is about the same price as a rental on iTunes or I will buy it blindly like I did when my 007 blu-rays were all $6.99 when Skyfall hit theatres.

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I guessed that you did not own many blurays. Many of us own a truckload and will own even more in five years. It goes back to the collector thing. I enjoy watching movies more than once. I can't get past the crude look of streaming when it comes to colour variants and difficult scenes. It has no place in my home cinema.

When it comes to collecting, IMO, the holy grail of collecting was laserdiscs movies, with their art work, gate folds, box sets, the laserdisc era was the best time to collect....and you often had to go out of your way to find them at specialty stores....at that time THX was also much more relevant as well. DVD was very good as well when it first hit market, I liked how Warner had their own different packaging from the rest of them....but nothing beats laserdisc when it comes to collecting.

[Steedeel]

I am more concerned about picture quality than packaging. However, I love my blurays on my shelf so we do not really have anything left to say to each other?

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

I am more concerned about picture quality than packaging.

I think everyone can agree laserdisc, dvd and now blu ray all have superior picture quality to what was the alternative at the time. Although some of my later laserdiscs such The Truman Show actually look better than what was available on dvd. However, there was something really cool about the artwork, gate folds and box sets during the laserdisc era.

I too care about the picture quality as well, but I don't need to always watch my movies in 1080p.....

[Steedeel]

I do

[ack_bak]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

I don't think the hurdles are that big, one of the biggest things going for EST is that the movie studios now include a digital version of the movie with your blu-ray purchase. I received my first digital copy with my dvd purchase of The Incredible Shrinking Man, it was a standard version on iTunes and I was surprised at how much I like the idea of digital downloading, with that being said, I had only watched one movie up until that point off of iTunes....now I am kinda hooked, my next two movies will be No Holds Barred and Perks of a Wall Flower, both will be iTunes HD download rentals. I won't even give RedBox and consideration.

Buying physical media will likely become a distant thing for me as I start to embrace renting off of iTunes more frequently. Physical renting of media is already a non option as there are no more Blockbusters in my area or any place to rent other than RedBox.

This is not to say I will not buy blu rays going forward, I own over 1500 laserdisc movies, 2000 dvds, and around 25 purchased blu ray movies, I bought a few blu rays of 007 for $6.99 and movies like The Dark Knight Rises begs to be watched on blu ray, but I can't say blu ray is a powerful enough media option to buy blindly, especially at full price. The future of movie watching at home will be renting via digital, and digital renting will pass blu ray purchases eventually, here is a great article http://www.homemediamagazine.com/ind...ugh-2013-29641

You are talking about renting. I am talking about buying (EST) for digital. Apples and oranges. So yeah, I do think there are some big hurdles for electronic sellthrough (EST) that have yet to be answered. If more and more people (collectors) switch from buying discs to renting digitally it would be very bad for the studios unless they charge a lot more to rent than they do today. Billions of dollars of lost revenue.

I agree with you that digital is ideal for renting from a convenience factor. From a price factor, not so much. Vudu HDX is considerably more than a Redbox Blu-Ray rental. And Vudu HDX is about as low as I can go quality wise on my 125" screen.

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by ack_bak

You are talking about renting. I am talking about buying (EST) for digital. Apples and oranges. So yeah, I do think there are some big hurdles for electronic sellthrough (EST) that have yet to be answered. If more and more people (collectors) switch from buying discs to renting digitally it would be very bad for the studios unless they charge a lot more to rent than they do today. Billions of dollars of lost revenue.

I agree with you that digital is ideal for renting from a convenience factor. From a price factor, not so much. Vudu HDX is considerably more than a Redbox Blu-Ray rental. And Vudu HDX is about as low as I can go quality wise on my 125" screen.

It is not exactly Apple and Oranges, the market is about to shift drastically. Right now, physical media is about 60% (both purchase and rentals), the rest is made up of digital services.

I myself have already made the first steps in the switch from purchasing content in the classic physical form to that of renting from a digital service, I just have to decide if I want to go with Apple Tv or continue linking my computer up to my receiver via HDMI.

The Hollywood studios will see the shift coming, and the final nail in the coffin for physical media will be when the studios revert to a digital rental first model before the physical media is released.

Home entertainment is returning to its rental roots, with purchases of physical and digital content expected to account for 49% of consumer spending this year compared with more than 51% in 2012, according to BTIG Research analyst Richard Greenfield.

Total consumer spending on home entertainment is expected to reach $17.9 billion, down 0.4% from $18 billion in 2012, according to industry and BTIG data.

The projections, if correct, would mark the first time rental revenue topped sellthrough since 2000 when sales of movies and TV DVD began a meteoric rise to the top of the studio food chain as consumers flocked to own content.

Total sellthrough, which includes DVD, Blu-ray Disc and digital, is expected to surpass $8.8 billion compared with $9.1 billion in rental spending. Sales projections are down 4.8% from 2012 when consumer spending on sellthrough topped $9.2 billion.

The decline is primarily driven by a projected 15% drop in DVD sales to $5.2 billion, offset by 6% rise in Blu-ray purchases to $2.5 billion and 40% surge in electronic sellthrough to $1.1 billion.

Indeed, sales of movies and TV shows topped 60% of consumer spending in 2009 — a percentage that dropped to 53% in 2011 as Redbox and subscription video-on-demand began to undermine the sellthrough market.

SVOD revenue is expected to surge 30% this year to $3 billion, while transactional VOD grows 13% to more than $2.2 billion. Kiosk rentals will grow revenue 10% to $2.1 billion, offset by 30% drop in by-mail (to $881 million) and 32% decline (to $827 million) in video store disc rentals.

In a Hollywood panel discussion earlier this month, Michael Lynton, CEO of Sony Corp. of America and Sony Pictures Entertainment, said consumers are parting with the notion of owning content.

“It’s more about access to content,” Lynton said. “People are breaking the emotional hold of ‘I have to have own it if I consume it.’ Once it shifts, a lot changes and it is happening pretty quickly.”

BTIG’s Greenfield says studios have three options to staunch waning sellthrough, including tweaking release windows, lower unit pricing and UltraViolet.

The analyst says movies should be released into retail channels six to eight weeks after theatrical compared with the current 14 to 15 week gap.

“With Comcast’s ownership of Universal and Warner’s Bros. recent management change, we would hope to see real progress in 2013 toward shortening windows, despite the continued tacit collusion of the movie exhibition industry,” Greenfield wrote.

He said 20th Century Fox Home Entertainment’s push to price Digital HD releases at $15 is still too high, and should be lowered to less than $10. The analyst added that while the cloud-based UltraViolet digital storage platform has registered millions of accounts, it remains lower on the to-do list.

“We believe windowing and price are far more important problems to solve than functionality,” Greenfield wrote.

http://www.homemediamagazine.com/ind...ugh-2013-29641

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by pagemaster

It is not exactly Apple and Oranges, the market is about to shift drastically. Right now, physical media is about 60% (both purchase and rentals), the rest is made up of digital services.

I myself have already made the first steps in the switch from purchasing content in the classic physical form to that of renting from a digital service, I just have to decide if I want to go with Apple Tv or continue linking my computer up to my receiver via HDMI.

The Hollywood studios will see the shift coming, and the final nail in the coffin for poor old physical media will be when the studios revert to a digital rental first model before the physical media is released.



http://www.homemediamagazine.com/ind...ugh-2013-29641

Your a funny guy. 'Poor old physical media'. Are you just trying to wind people up?

[pagemaster]

Originally Posted by Steedeel

Your a funny guy. 'Poor old physical media'. Are you just trying to wind people up?

Sorry to offend you, I removed it from the previous post.