Prometheus (2012)

[Oblivion138]

Originally Posted by Early Memphis

Do you read minds, pardner? If so ... you're not very good at it - or even reading threads. Well, I guess that's a shot, sorry. A couple of bozos on this bus have me a bit irritated. I already said that you had every right to your opinion and that it was "absolutely valid". I don't get it when people either attack other posters because they have a different opinion or react like they've been attacked if someone states a different opinion (neither of those situations pertains to you here, I'm just trying to explain the "value" I place on other's opinions). It's like their opinion is the only valid opinion. They have to be right because, well, because they are right, right? What I don't respect, ever, is lame-os taking cheap shots like a couple of clowns have on this page. They think they look tough but they only look like punks.

I usually try to stay positive (do unto others ...), sometimes I fail. I'm always ready to debate facts or call out cyber bully's, but I'm not some blowhard who thinks that his … opinions smell like roses and everyone else's smell like ... manure. As for chip75, did you even read his response? "I'm not sure ... " See, I know Chip (only a little, from his posts), and he doesn't use Smileys very often. So, as there was no clear signal or clue, I asked - positively ("You're kidding, yes?"). No disrespect intended, none apparently taken. But thanks for backing up someone you thought was under attack - even if he wasn't - we need more of that around here (but I still disagree with you about Avatar, and apparently I'm not alone - it is the highest grossing movie of all time, for now).

Wow...way to be needlessly insulting in a post where you try to claim how positive you try to stay. All I can say is, "If so ... you're not very good at it."

And box office does not equal quality. Unless, of course, you think Transformers: Revenge of the Fallen earning $800M+ makes it great cinema. In which case, there's nothing left to discuss.

[Early Memphis]

Gimmie a break, Oblivion (or should I say oblivious?). I took one tiny shot, owned up to it and left it in as a joke - and that's all you got out of my post (while ignoring anything you said)? If so, obviously I'm wasting my time and you're just looking for crap, so do us both a favor and put me on your ignore list.

[Early Memphis]

Even though I'm only a little bitty Grey alien, "gargantuan" really seems to be stretching it just a bit. Perspective was used for effect in the Space Jockey's brief appearance in Alien - but he wasn't big enough to justify the religion some have built up around one large dead alien. These are only a few shots as I have no time to rewatch either movie right now, and I'm far more familiar with Alien. But you can see that the distant shots use angle and perspective to heighten the size difference:

But close up, he's just not … gargantuan:

And in these two shots from Prometheus, the Engineer is bigger than the humans and not that much smaller than the true size of the original jockey. How tall would you say : 8 ft, 9 ft? I really don't have the time to watch it again right now, but perhaps the original wasn't a jockey after all, perhaps he was a starter on one or their NBA-type teams.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Early Memphis

As for chip75, did you even read his response? "I'm not sure ... " See, I know Chip (only a little, from his posts), and he doesn't use Smileys very often.

I'm No Smileys Guaranteed.

Sorry to drag the thread of course, from what is a film of worthwhile discussion. But I was slightly teasing nagysaudio with 'I'm not sure ...' I do honestly think Alien3 had an awful lot of potential whilst Avatar, well we'll have to wait and see how the other ones turn out.

Originally Posted by nagysaudio

Cameron is one of the most creative writers in the history of written material. He's a true visionary. Can't write?

All I'll say is if he made Spider-man he would have been responsible for three of the worst love scenes in cinema's history.

[Astro Zombie]

Originally Posted by nagysaudio

Avatar is a modern masterpiece. And Cameron can't write? Seriously? Cameron is one of the most creative writers in the history of written material. He's a true visionary. Can't write?

Cameron's imagination has brought some of the very best and most fantastical yet plausible sci-fi movies of all time:

The Terminator
Aliens
The Abyss
Terminator 2: Judgment Day

Can't write?

How about the movie which won the most Oscars in the history of Oscars? Or the highest grossing movie number one and number two?

Titanic
Avatar

He can't write?

Terminator
Kyle Reese
Sarah Connor
Ellen Ripley
Bishop
Private Hudson
Corporal Hicks
Virgil Bridgman
Lt. Hiram Coffey
Harry Tasker
Helen Tasker
Jack Dawson
Rose DeWitt Bukater

These are some of the most memorable characters in the history of cinema.

Can't write? Maybe ya'll should go buy some of those incredibly lame Criterion movies announced for June.

Ridiculous nonsense.

I don't think anyone's denying that Cameron has a great imagination. As a fan of his, though, even I can admit that dialogue has never been his strong suit. Still, his movies are very enjoyable, although I'll have to disagree with you on Avatar. Movie gets worse everytime I see it.

And Titanic isn't the only movie to win the most Oscars. Ben-Hur and Return of the King won the same amount.

[Darkstream]

Here's an interesting blog I just found... Some pretty good points on Alien vs. Prometheus.

http://singlemindedmovieblog.blogspo...omparison.html

[Early Memphis]

Originally Posted by chip75

... All I'll say is if he made Spider-man he would have been responsible for three of the worst love scenes in cinema's history.

Okay, so I'm guessing you're including Titanic? If so which are the other two?

[Astro Zombie]

Originally Posted by Early Memphis

Okay, so I'm guessing you're including Titanic? If so which are the other two?

Maybe Terminator? I think Avatar had one too.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Early Memphis

Okay, so I'm guessing you're including Titanic? If so which are the other two?

Can I count Titanic three times if it's in 3D?

[Early Memphis]

Originally Posted by chip75

Can I count Titanic three times if it's in 3D?

No! That's cheating! Besides, wasn't Titanic the only one he ever showed any skin in?

[El Comelon]

I wasn't too fond of Prometheus when I saw it back in theaters however, there are aspects of it I did like. I'd probably appericate it more if they could release a 2D Blu-ray version with all the extras the 3D one came with.

[oly]

Originally Posted by El Comelon

I wasn't too fond of Prometheus when I saw it back in theaters however, there are aspects of it I did like. I'd probably appericate it more if they could release a 2D Blu-ray version with all the extras the 3D one came with.

The 3D version has been really cheap in the past, though. I remember it being 14.99 for the longest time. It could have been even lower, too

EDIT: It was 12.99 on Amazon last month

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by Darkstream

Here's an interesting blog I just found... Some pretty good points on Alien vs. Prometheus.

http://singlemindedmovieblog.blogspo...omparison.html

Good link. Well worth a look for those who don't understand some of the issues Alien fans have with this film. And this link doesn't even try to discuss the issues with characterization and logic - it just addresses the film on a visual level. Even on just a visual level, Prometheus fails compared to Alien. Sure, the effects in Prometheus are top-notch, but the production design is poor. Just look at the eerie planetscape in Alien. Now look what we get in Prometheus. The Prometheus ship interior is bland and unimaginative. The massive mining ship in Alien looked like how you would imagine a future space mining ship to look. It looked used - dirty. The crew was believable. The spacesuits were awesome - right down to the surreal-looking gas that was exhaled from their helmet as they breathed. No imagination went into Prometheus' set design.

And I don't know how anybody can look at those comparison images and claim that the original Space Jockey was intended to be anything other than the skeletal remains of some massive, totally alien life form. Those are bones no matter how much we're told to believe otherwise now.

[BouCoupDinkyDau]

Originally Posted by Early Memphis

Besides, wasn't Titanic the only one he ever showed any skin in?

Terminator. Kyle with Sara.

Originally Posted by mar3o

And I don't know how anybody can look at those comparison images and claim that the original Space Jockey was intended to be anything other than the skeletal remains of some massive, totally alien life form. Those are bones no matter how much we're told to believe otherwise now.

In O'Bannon's original story, the jockey and the alien are synonymous. The xenomorph is supposed to be the immature form of that species. It was to live a short time in that brutal animal-like state and then transform into the jockey, which was a highly intelligent and benevolent race. Subsequent drafts of the script for ALIEN dropped that connection.

Regardless, although the jockey looks like a skeleton, I can see how they re-imagined it into a suit. I mean, look at the thing: it FULLY takes up the seat it is in, which means with muscle and flesh it would have been a larger creature that would have been much too large for that chair.

And look at the arms on it. Those do not look like bones. They are solid, like armor or the sleeves of some other covering.
And the tendrils that are on them extend to the chair; implying a functional connection to the equipment.
Even the joysticks the jockey is gripping look like bone. Does that mean the chair was alive too?

It looks more like a suit than a carcass, but it's designed in such a way that it could be either (which is the point of Geiger's art in the first place: where does the living thing end and the machine begin?).

So it could really go either way.

[dmollenauer]

Originally Posted by Krelldog1977

Prometheus.....uug.....it may be time for the Director to retire. What a slap in the face to us Alien fanatics. I'll keep on pretending it never came out.

Have you seen the Counselor? If not, do yourself a favor and stay far away. Although a lot of the blame for that movie, like Prometheus, is on the writer(s) But that doesn't excuse the poor writing making it all the way up to the screen as the director has final say. Ridley may still have one or two good movies left in him, but I'm not holding my breath. His last good movie was Kingdom of Heaven in 2005 (his next movie Exodus appears to be in the same vein) and that was not even the theatrical version, but the directors cut on blu-ray/dvd. So in that case it was actually Black Hawk Down in 2001.

The bonus features on the Prometheus 3d blu-ray edition are better than the movie.

[Oblivion138]

Originally Posted by Early Memphis

Gimmie a break, Oblivion (or should I say oblivious?). I took one tiny shot, owned up to it and left it in as a joke - and that's all you got out of my post (while ignoring anything you said)? If so, obviously I'm wasting my time and you're just looking for crap, so do us both a favor and put me on your ignore list.

Very substantive. Way to keep it positive, bro.

Originally Posted by Early Memphis

Even though I'm only a little bitty Grey alien, "gargantuan" really seems to be stretching it just a bit. Perspective was used for effect in the Space Jockey's brief appearance in Alien - but he wasn't big enough to justify the religion some have built up around one large dead alien. These are only a few shots as I have no time to rewatch either movie right now, and I'm far more familiar with Alien. But you can see that the distant shots use angle and perspective to heighten the size difference:

They also put children in the space suits for the wide shots.

Originally Posted by Early Memphis

No! That's cheating! Besides, wasn't Titanic the only one he ever showed any skin in?

You're clearly forgetting Linda Hamilton's tatas, Michael Biehn's ass, and Arnold's ass and package...the Terminator trifecta!

Originally Posted by mar3o

Good link. Well worth a look for those who don't understand some of the issues Alien fans have with this film.

Some Alien fans.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by BouCoupDinkyDau

Terminator. Kyle with Sara.



In O'Bannon's original story, the jockey and the alien are synonymous. The xenomorph is supposed to be the immature form of that species. It was to live a short time in that brutal animal-like state and then transform into the jockey, which was a highly intelligent and benevolent race. Subsequent drafts of the script for ALIEN dropped that connection.

Regardless, although the jockey looks like a skeleton, I can see how they re-imagined it into a suit. I mean, look at the thing: it FULLY takes up the seat it is in, which means with muscle and flesh it would have been a larger creature that would have been much too large for that chair.

And look at the arms on it. Those do not look like bones. They are solid, like armor or the sleeves of some other covering.
And the tendrils that are on them extend to the chair; implying a functional connection to the equipment.
Even the joysticks the jockey is gripping look like bone. Does that mean the chair was alive too?

It looks more like a suit than a carcass, but it's designed in such a way that it could be either (which is the point of Geiger's art in the first place: where does the living thing end and the machine begin?).

So it could really go either way.

Are you familiar with H.R. Giger's artwork style? I ask because fans of his work will immediately recognize his "trademark" style of bio-mechanical merging of man/woman and machine. His work on the design of the Space Jockey has Giger written all over it. As you pointed out, it's difficult to tell where the Space Jockey's remains end and the chair begins. It's sort of "merged" together, as if he grew into or was formed as part of the chair itself. That's classic Giger. Tons of his artwork depict that bizarre merging of flesh and machine. That's what made the Space Jockey so totally creepy and alien. It was almost as if the Space Jockey and the chair was a single, alien object, with the operator literally merged into the chair. It was unlike any form of life as we understand it, and that's what made the whole concept so frightening to so many viewers.

With Prometheus, all that is thrown out the window. They knew what they were designing in Alien - they knew full well that it was something totally alien that looked like it shouldn't exist. We didn't need Prometheus to re-write it and "fix" the size with the over-large Space Jockey. It was like that for a reason.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by dmollenauer

The bonus features on the Prometheus 3d blu-ray edition are better than the movie.

That's precisely why I bought the 4-disc 3D package a couple months ago from Best Buy for $3 (I had a $10 certificate). I just wanted to see the extras and for $3 it was worth it to me.

The trailer for Prometheus wasn't an invitation to see it - it was a warning to stay away.

[mar3o]

Originally Posted by Oblivion138

They also put children in the space suits for the wide shots.

I know this. So what? It just further proves that they used all the tricks at their disposal to make the Space Jockey look huge. It was intentional that it appeared as big as it did in the film.

[Lentulus Batiatus]

Originally Posted by Darkstream

Here's an interesting blog I just found... Some pretty good points on Alien vs. Prometheus.

http://singlemindedmovieblog.blogspo...omparison.html

That link was good for a few laughs. Basically it's "Alien was PERFECT, Prometheus was CRAP!" by repeating the same trash over and over. Alien SFX people had to work for their money, Prometheus they just flipped the computer on and it looks so computered? OK then.