Prometheus (2012)

[Guiltydrummer]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

I could elaborate a lot more, but off the top of my head here's just some things I really dislike about the movie. Possible spoilers below for those that haven't seen it.

• The Engineers origins story. What a complete disappointment.
• The completely illogical science behind the Engineers DNA - An Engineer disintegrates into a waterfall, and voila humanz is created! Exact same DNA as us despite the smallest sample being dropped into a body of water, and the countless mutations, and evolutionary processes that would have to take place from that point to homo sapiens. I know you have to suspend some belief, but this is just insulting our intelligence.
• Idris Elba's jarring, weird, and inconsistent accent (is it Southern, is it Australian? wtf is he doing? He is my fav. character though)
• The unbelievable amount of times these "Scientists" acted completely idiotic (Hey let's all take off our helmets in a completely foreign world" "Hey let's smoke weed in our suits!" "Hey let's wander around in the dark, especially in a place that may have alien actvity" "Hey let's not get the hell away when we see an alien creature". There are so many more it's not even funny)
• The "twists" that you can see a mile away
• The cliched father / daughter nonsense
• How completely dislikable they made "Charlie" in every scene. It felt completely forced just to help support what happens to his character
• Zero emotional connections. Like literally none.
• Zero character depth. Seriously some of the hollowest characters on film.
• Cliched dialogue
• Weyland's grotesque (and completely unnecessary) toes/feet
• The nearly indestructible zombie geologist
• The holograms of the Engineers movements, which makes no sense why they exist other than to basically show David how to operate the ship, etc..What triggered the holograms, David pressing a button? Did they create them for the sole purpose that humans would visit? I highly doubt that. Their existence makes no sense, and is just lazy script writing

Like I said, I could go on. This is a really dumb film that is trying to appear more intelligent than it is. It has great production design as I said, and even has a solid mysterious setup at first, but is hampered greatly by terrible characters, and generic Sci-fi nonsense. This is closer to something like Cloverfield Paradox than it is Alien in my opinion. I think the fact that this is an Alien film from Ridley Scott makes me more disappointed than had it been some reboot attempt by let's say JJ Abrams or something. Alien is masterpiece, while this is just a mostly forgettable Sci-Fi romp with nice atmosphere.

I'd probably rank it just a little bit higher than Alien 4, and I'm not even sure about that. It may very well be the worst Alien film (not counting any of the predator cross-overs). I'll have to revisit Covenant though. Only seen it once, and thought that was hugely disappointing too, but willing to give it another chance.

I disagree completely. I'll give you Elbas accent, a minor distraction. Those other points are nonsense. It's amazing how people can suspend their disbelief for certain films, but others they nitpick every detail.

[Gunsnroses092789]

Originally Posted by Guiltydrummer

I disagree completely. I'll give you Elbas accent, a minor distraction. Those other points are nonsense. It's amazing how people can suspend their disbelief for certain films, but others they nitpick every detail.

Since you strongly disagree with MifuneFan, please provide your argument as to why you think his points are nonsense and what makes Prometheus a great film.

Mind you, I'm okay with the film, so I'm not saying it's great or it's crap. But I am interested in hearing arguments for both sides.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by Guiltydrummer

I disagree completely. I'll give you Elbas accent, a minor distraction. Those other points are nonsense. It's amazing how people can suspend their disbelief for certain films, but others they nitpick every detail.

So you disagree that the scientists acted stupidly? You think they acted intelligently then? You think it was a smart move for them to remove their helmets in an alien world? You think it was smart of them to not be afraid when there's some alien creature that seems defensive? You think it was intelligent of them to wander around? To smoke week in their suits? You found the characters to express emotions and have lots of depth? Explain the holograms, and why they would conveniently show up at key turning points of the story.

Just saying you disagree completely really means nothing. Counter my points, don't just use blanket statements. Very few of my criticisms are nitpicks. The Engineers DNA is a major plot point for instance, and it's completely laughable.

[Underworld54]

The movie is a mess no doubt, but I do enjoy it. Might watch it again in 3D today.

[GRD43L]

Originally Posted by dallywhitty

Well, there are people who actually think The Revenant is a masterpiece, so anything is possible.

Originally Posted by Gunsnroses092789

And Manchester by the Sea...

I like to watch both of them but the word masterpiece has been thrown around too liberally. It has become such a cliché.

Getting back to the topic, I think the idea behind the Prometheus is fantastic but as MifuneFan has elaborated in great detail the whole movie is not grounded (no pun intended) in anything.

I still have fun watching it (and pretend the movie is going to turn out differently) but always get mighty frustrated in the thought of missed opportunities. Both Prometheus and Covenant feel like there were too many cooks in the kitchen.

[Sixer]

Have to agree - it's truly dreadful. Only bettered in it's 'terribleness' but it's sequel Alien - Covenant.

[DR Herbert West]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

So you disagree that the scientists acted stupidly? You think they acted intelligently then? You think it was a smart move for them to remove their helmets in an alien world?

"The air is clean, even cleaner than Earth." - Ford

They almost never wear helmets in Star Trek. Nobody cares.

You think it was smart of them to not be afraid when there's some alien creature that seems defensive? You think it was intelligent of them to wander around? To smoke week in their suits?

I don't expect humans to make good decisions in the best of times.

It doesn't bother me to see them make mistakes while under duress.

“The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of the infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.” ― H. P. Lovercraft

Explain the purpose of the holograms

It's the Engineer version of a flight recorder/blackbox.

and why they would show up and key times of the story.

They show up when David activates them.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by DR Herbert West

"The air is clean, even cleaner than Earth." - Ford

They almost never wear helmets in Star Trek. Nobody cares.

It's still an alien environment, regardless of what the data reads out. There could be any unknown element or poison that their readers don't know about that could instantly have killed them. It's completely illogical that one person take's off their helmet, and goes "Whoo" and the rest decide to join in. This movie appeared to be going for something grounded in reality, but apparently not..

It's the Engineer version of a flight recorder/blackbox.

They show up when David activates them.

So David presses a random button, and it conveniently is the precise one that shows exactly how to operate the ship, and use the flute, and all that other stuff? If it was a flight recorder they would show more than just the exact stuff that David needs. It also doesn't explain what activated the random hologram of them running in the hallway, which appeared exactly when it seemed the crew didn't have any direction to go. It shows up, and boom they follow it to the dead engineer. It's a plot device, nothing more. I'm even willing to give that a pass though in fairness. Sometimes movies need plot devices like that to progress the story.

[Cremildo]

Originally Posted by Gunsnroses092789

Don't forget that the main character has some major surgery

[Show spoiler](the alien C-section)

and after a few lousy staples and some anesthesia, she's up and running around at like she's almost fine.

Jesus Christ.

The movie clearly shows her injecting herself with what surely are analgesics after her surgery.

99% of the nitpicking complaints leveled against this film come from people who simply did not pay attention.

[Gunsnroses092789]

Originally Posted by Cremildo

Jesus Christ.

The movie clearly shows her injecting herself with what surely are analgesics after her surgery.

99% of the nitpicking complaints leveled against this film come from people who simply did not pay attention.

Pardon me. I used anesthesia instead of analgesics... I did pay attention. I've seen the film multiple times. But sorry, I'm just not buying it. They can say that their urine tastes like cream soda in space, but it doesn't mean I believe it's plausible.

Also, Mr. Jesus Christ, judging from your avatar, you're probably not the most unbiased person for this argument...

[DR Herbert West]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

It's still an alien environment, regardless of what the data reads out. There could be any unknown element or poison that their readers don't know about that could instantly have killed them. It's completely illogical that one person take's off their helmet, and goes "Whoo" and the rest decide to join in. This movie appeared to be going for something grounded in reality, but apparently not..

It's a Sci-fi monster movie.

So David presses a random button, and it conveniently is the precise one that shows exactly how to operate the ship, and use the flute, and all that other stuff? If it was a flight recorder they would show more than just the exact stuff that David needs. It's a plot device, nothing more.

Movies tend to be full of them.

[Guiltydrummer]

Originally Posted by Cremildo

Jesus Christ.

The movie clearly shows her injecting herself with what surely are analgesics after her surgery.

99% of the nitpicking complaints leveled against this film come from people who simply did not pay attention.

Originally Posted by DR Herbert West

"The air is clean, even cleaner than Earth." - Ford

They almost never wear helmets in Star Trek. Nobody cares.



I don't expect humans to make good decisions in the best of times.

It doesn't bother me to see them make mistakes while under duress.

“The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents. We live on a placid island of ignorance in the midst of black seas of the infinity, and it was not meant that we should voyage far.” ― H. P. Lovercraft



It's the Engineer version of a flight recorder/blackbox.



They show up when David activates them.

Thanks. You said it all for me.

[dallywhitty]

Yeah, I have my problems with Prometheus, but I always found the criticisms about the characters being stupid to be, well... stupid. I never understood why plenty of other horror films get a pass in this department, but Prometheus doesn't.

[Guiltydrummer]

Originally Posted by Cremildo

Jesus Christ.

The movie clearly shows her injecting herself with what surely are analgesics after her surgery.

99% of the nitpicking complaints leveled against this film come from people who simply did not pay attention.

Thanks also.

[dallywhitty]

Honestly, forget helmets and anaesthetic. The real flaw in Prometheus is Fifield, the most obnoxious supporting character in cinema history.

[Gunsnroses092789]

Originally Posted by DR Herbert West

It's a Sci-fi monster movie.



Movies tend to be full of them.

Sure, this is true, but it's also the absence of these implausibities that tend to alleviate a movie from good to great. Just like the first two entries in the series.

[Gunsnroses092789]

Originally Posted by dallywhitty

Yeah, I have my problems with Prometheus, but I always found the criticisms about the characters being stupid to be, well... stupid. I never understood why plenty of other horror films get a pass in this department, but Prometheus doesn't.

Probably the world it creates and sets up. Take Paul Verhoeven films for example. They're in a heightened reality so character choices seem to be more bizarre and get away with more.

Ridley Scott generally simulates reality in character motivations, so I think it has to do with this. That he doesn't create a new world, nor stick to the "rules" of the existing one.

Just my thoughts. Also, the same people finding criticisms in these stupid characters may also find it in other films that you're thinking of and you just haven't seen it written. OR, it means possibly there is something missing in this film that makes the stupid actions stand out more.

[CreasyBear]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

So David presses a random button, and it conveniently is the precise one that shows exactly how to operate the ship, and use the flute, and all that other stuff? If it was a flight recorder they would show more than just the exact stuff that David needs. It also doesn't explain what activated the random hologram of them running in the hallway, which appeared exactly when it seemed the crew didn't have any direction to go. It shows up, and boom they follow it to the dead engineer. It's a plot device, nothing more. I'm even willing to give that a pass though in fairness. Sometimes movies need plot devices like that to progress the story.

David is not human. He is a constantly learning machine, able to easily decipher language and symbols. He has been studying the information for two years on the trip to LV-223. It's perfectly reasonable that he, once presented with the information in the Engineer's ship, is able to operate the machinery.

[DR Herbert West]

Originally Posted by Gunsnroses092789

Sure, this is true, but it's also the absence of these implausibities that tend to alleviate a movie from good to great. Just like the first two entries in the series.

No film is immune to this.

Aliens:

Why is the Sulaco left completely unmanned? The Colonial Marines can't afford one extra person/synthetic?

Why does Burke want Ripley to go on the mission? She already told him everything she knows. She could only get in the way of his agenda.

The Marines never check the air for possible contagions.

[Cremildo]

From the moment some people decide to flat-out reject or ignore explanations that are in the movie and that make sense within the world of the movie (such as why they didn't wear helmets inside the pyramid or why Shaw was able to move soon after her caesarian), "bad writing" or "character stupidity" cease to be valid arguments. The problem lies in the viewer, who isn't able to open up and immerse themselves in the movie.

The same goes to bits that are purposefully not explained in detail (like what happened to the Engineers inside the pyramid in the past - there is enough visual storytelling for people to figure things out by themselves without much difficulty). Perhaps this is the criticism that irks me the most - the writer and the director avoid the easy path of endless, boring exposition, relying instead in the intelligence (and imagination) of the viewers and the power of the images to communicate plot points, and are criticized for it.

Prometheus is a futuristic science fiction, yet it's as if it's committing some sin by providing viewers with precisely that: futuristic science fiction. Spaihts, Lindelof and Scott show more ambition and cinematic flair than most studio blockbusters of this era, yet their accomplishments are given less relevance than minor grievances that often have no merit at all.

A YouTube channel addressed and countered most of those complaints. The tone may be a little off-putting for those who disliked the movie, but it might help clear out a lot of the unnecessary confusion.

Prometheus ACTUALLY Explained (With Real Answers) - YouTube