4K Movies Releases

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Underappreciated benefit of HDR: it allows one to highlight the detail of a 4K shot and finished movie so that one can actually see it (the detail) better. The detail is there with 4K, but thru SDR mastering and projection you can (and often do) lose some of it…..sometimes a lot of it.

One may ask, WHY is that? Well….the human visual system has a contrast sensitivity function, e.g. we need more contrast to see finer detail.

Still skeptical? Well, has anyone ever gone to their local optometrist or ophthalmologist office and had a visual acuity test done by having you read one of those letter charts projected on the wall and subsequently been told you had 20/15 vision and then a week or two later you went to another office for instance to get custom frames (that the first office didn’t have in stock) and forgetting your recent prescription, they (the 2nd office) did a quick visual acuity test and you now measured 20/20 (which is poorer than 20/15)……BUT…then thinking about it, you noticed that the projection wasn’t as bright (contrasty) as in the first office because the equipment in the 2nd office wasn’t being maintained.

It happens.

Proof of concept with movie material , say you? Well, of the vfx shots in Tomorrowland that were 4K all the way through (the elements were produced in 4K, the renders were rendered in 4K and they were output in 4K), if you carefully critique the picture quality, you can actually see greater detail in the Dolby Vision version than the SDR grade.

Take home message? Well…..whether some people like it or not, HDR complements higher spatial resolution (4K).

And vice versa.

[Derb]

Either my 2014 Sony 4K 900b can't handle 4K streams from Netflix or its Netflix.

Ran into harsh Macro again. For some reason light scenes (Nice sunny days) look great but enter any darkness & the picture unfolds in front of your eyes introducing every known artifact to man until a another Nice sunny day scene comes around in the show/film.

This is disappointing. All my BDs upscaled look better then Netflix 4K. Heck PS4 looks better then 4K. lol

I hope these UHD players hit the market this year because I will take the plunge sooner then expected if only to find out if my 900b is capable of 2160 without Macro.

[Spike M.]

So evolving from one basic question to yet another basic question, what's the difference between an HDR laser system and an SDR laser system? Is it just that the HDR file was graded at 30 FL instead of 22 FL (what IMAX has standardized their digital projection at)? or is there some tech in the Christie system that they're using for Dolby Vision that IMAX just doesn't have? As a follow up, wouldn't matching the brightness of Dolby Vision nit for nit lead to some issues in a proper IMAX environment? I remember reading somewhere (maybe even here) that they're only cranking their laser's light output to 30% because eye strain became an issue much past that 22 FL mark, but I could be mistaken.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

- the “UK's first-ever Ultra HD (4K) broadcast” ….https://sport.bt.com/sport-football/...11363994807527 Reminder: Since we don’t get the BT Sport pack, set your DVR for Sunday morn to at least record the match in HD off of Fox Sports1.

The Good – Arsenal wins
The Bad – The broadcast begged for HDR due to the this same sort of thing, as previously illustrated here....https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...s#post11002253

[Penton-Man]

Who’d have thought?
http://www.broadbandtvnews.com/2015/...dynamic-range/

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Spike M.

So evolving from one basic question to yet another basic question, what's the difference between...

Kris, Geoff?

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by Spike M.

So evolving from one basic question to yet another basic question, what's the difference between an HDR laser system and an SDR laser system? Is it just that the HDR file was graded at 30 FL instead of 22 FL (what IMAX has standardized their digital projection at)? or is there some tech in the Christie system that they're using for Dolby Vision that IMAX just doesn't have? As a follow up, wouldn't matching the brightness of Dolby Vision nit for nit lead to some issues in a proper IMAX environment? I remember reading somewhere (maybe even here) that they're only cranking their laser's light output to 30% because eye strain became an issue much past that 22 FL mark, but I could be mistaken.

From what I've read it seems like the Dolby Vision projectors are using some sort of light valve system to achieve their goal and I'm not sure if IMAX is doing something similar or not. I have a hard time believing that the laser projectors employed by IMAX were not capable of the same high levels of light as the Dolby versions, but it may be coding limitations in the server or simply turning some other feature on. The same applies to the already out there 4K Christie 6P projectors. As I've mentioned before the Seattle Cinerama is using a dual 4K laser projector setup and I have no doubt that they could probably be updated to the Dolby Vision specs but I can't find any definitive information on what exactly would need to happen. So not sure if the projector hardware or server hardware is the limitation for these types of installs.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Kris, Geoff?

No way, I've learned my lesson about proferring info in this thread, it's best left to the professionals.

[Spike M.]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

From what I've read it seems like the Dolby Vision projectors are using some sort of light valve system to achieve their goal and I'm not sure if IMAX is doing something similar or not. I have a hard time believing that the laser projectors employed by IMAX were not capable of the same high levels of light as the Dolby versions, but it may be coding limitations in the server or simply turning some other feature on. The same applies to the already out there 4K Christie 6P projectors. As I've mentioned before the Seattle Cinerama is using a dual 4K laser projector setup and I have no doubt that they could probably be updated to the Dolby Vision specs but I can't find any definitive information on what exactly would need to happen. So not sure if the projector hardware or server hardware is the limitation for these types of installs.

Hm. Thanks for the info.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

No way, I've learned my lesson about proferring info in this thread, it's best left to the professionals.

You undervalue your contributions.

As far as the super deep black potential of HDR goes, even though the format is capable of it, that doesn’t necessarily mean viewers will always get it with a movie if the filmmaker didn’t desire real deep blacks to be the *look* he was trying to convey with the storytelling…..or technically, the shot wasn’t composed by the cinematographer in order to capture the full deep shadow detail in the scene to begin with.

[bailey1987]

Western Digital have some 4K content available

http://variety.com/2015/digital/news...ch-1201555994/

Only works on Samsung 2015 UHD TVs though.

[Penton-Man]

I was PM-ed this inquiry…
”Penton, does the F55 camera have as good spectral sensitivity as the more expensive F65? What I’m getting at is if you wanted to make a video for demo purposes would shooting with the F55 be just as good at capturing all the color for then displaying it on the best spec-ed UHD TV you can think of?

Answer (short) – as my grandma would say….you darn tootin it (the F55) would!

Answer (long), the F55 color filter array is identical to the F65. The CFA describes the red, blue and green colors marked on top of the sensor pixels which allow it to read color information (red, green and blue) which determines the range of colors that the sensor can capture. If someone wanted to really nitpick the color quality between the two cameras….to the most critical eye, the 65 seems to show finer skin tone gradations, but that is really splitting hairs, because the footage from both cameras intercuts very well , as proven with one recently released motion picture as shown on zee BIG screen.

The 55 (and 65) have a choice of color grading space settings (to make life easier), which I can post pics of later for illustrative purposes when I have more time…..and of course, the camera can record in RAW, i.e. RAW is sensor native data and does not apply any color space nor log curve. RAW is always recorded by 16bit Scene linear.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

So, continuing, inquiring minds might ask….What be thee HDR progress news, if any, out of another standards organization…namely that of SMPTE?

Well, as I’m typing up this post, although, as one can see on the o-fficial website….https://www.smpte.org/standards/meeting-reports



At the current time, only the meeting from March in San Jose ^ is available for perusal right now, at this moment. But for those who just can’t wait, I can inform folks a little about HDR progress from the latest SMPTE meeting this month (July) from down under. Namely, regarding the project - https://kws.smpte.org/kws/public/pro...project_id=241

The study group cancelled their 2-hour planned meeting during this round. Discussion has ceased whilst the draft report (now at version 32) had become somewhat disjointed…is being restructured to make it easier to comment upon.

SMPTE plans to publish a Study Group report on HDR in the 2nd half of the year which is hoped to educate and highlight issues regarding standardization for the content mastering and broadcast ecosystem.

As far as dynamic metadata (info likewise not yet updated on the o-fficial webpage as I type this)…. https://kws.smpte.org/kws/public/pro...project_id=294

The structure of the document suite has been revised as follows:
Document suite:
ST 2094-1 Core Components
ST 2094-2 Syntax and Carrier
ST 2094-10 Application #1
ST 2094-20 Application #2
ST 2094-30 Application #3
ST 2094-40 Application #4

This reflects the four detailed method disclosures received from Dolby, Philips, Technicolor, and Samsung which are sufficiently different to make it impossible to rationalize into a single method. Further Parts will be added if more proponents submit disclosures.

Meanwhile, the Standards report from the latest (July) SMPTE meetings (down under) should be forthcoming on the o-fficial website this month.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

How UHDTV will shine - YouTube

Different strokes (to be precise, a KTM 2-stroke powerplant, thar’s history there between Penton and KTM) for different folks (simple standard dynamic range 4K YouTubers [see settings]) -

DC SHOES: ROBBIE MADDISON'S "PIPE DREAM" - YouTube

Review - http://abcnews.go.com/US/robbie-madd...ry?id=32858920

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

The Good – Arsenal wins
The Bad – The broadcast begged for HDR due to the this same sort of thing, as previously illustrated here....https://forum.blu-ray.com/showthread...s#post11002253

But until consumers get live 4K HDR content, to emphasize the Good –
http://www.whathifi.com/news/5-thing...sport-ultra-hd

And a heads-up to locals for a firsthand look at those fine Fujinon lenses mentioned in that whathifi article linked to above……
http://industryhappenings.com/event/...at-sonys-dmpc/

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

The Good – Arsenal wins
The Bad – It's soccer

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by PeterTHX

Don't switch the blade on the guy in shades, oh no - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=56HS...utu.be&t=0m57s

I wear my sunglasses at night.
Peter, you can’t fool me. I still think you’re a secret investor in - https://lafc.com/

[Penton-Man]

Throwback Thursday answer to ray-bones revisited -

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

But to directly answer your question as to what/why/how much *wow* there is/will be with the HDR version of some upcoming movies, you have to understand that the final look is more related to what the filmmakers are/were trying to accomplish with their storytelling. It’s very dependent upon creative choice and
plus......

it’s still a learning process for all the filmmakers.

For example, with regards to the “plus”....
‘Aspects of UHDTV Capture’ on Tues. Oct. 27, 10:45 A.M., at the SMPTE annual conference in Hollywood - http://www.cvent.com/events/smpte-20...pc=VXNNPJ2M6ZJ

[Penton-Man]

Thursday perspective –
For the young-ins out there reading, who have yet to embark upon a career path, humbly, if you’ve really got *the passion*, don’t settle for being a movie ‘watcher’….aim higher in life and be a ‘do-er’. Ergo, a guide to getting started….http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/fea...schools-811367

The rest is up to your inherent talent (genetics), acquired skill set thru a good work ethic…..and some luck.

[bailey1987]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Thursday perspective –
For the young-ins out there reading, who have yet to embark upon a career path, humbly, if you’ve really got *the passion*, don’t settle for being a movie ‘watcher’….aim higher in life and be a ‘do-er’. Ergo, a guide to getting started….http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/fea...schools-811367

The rest is up to your inherent talent (genetics), acquired skill set thru a good work ethic…..and some luck.

IF I had the cash. I'm still paying for my first degree, never mind a degree in film.