4K Blu-ray Confirmed, Coming in

[crazyBLUE]

Originally Posted by AudioWarrior

Wonder if they release older movies that have gotten the Atmos treatment like Die Hard? Maybe Disney will give Star Wars a Atmos tack to go along with the new 4k transfer?

BTW, does anybody know how to create your own thread?

Go into the proper section of the forum where the new thread should be. Top left of the page will be a button that says New Thread

[Todd Tomorrow]

I'll be curious to see how much difference 4K makes on media not shot natively on 4K for home displays. I've seen those huge 4K TVs looking impressive with 4K demo discs, but how much better will The Godfather or Alien look like in 4K at home?

Even if I get into it, it will be several years till prices come down and there is enough media, so I'll think about it by the end of the decade. I was an early adopter of DVD, but with Blu-ray I waited till the format war was over till I got into it and with this I may never get round to it. From VHS to DVD to Blu-ray the difference has become more marginal if always worthwhile. In this case the difference may not be noticeable enough got me to bother till 4K displays become the standard. Half of my friends and most of my family haven't even got into Blu-ray yet.

[Geoff D]

Imagine The Godfather with extra dynamic range. Gordon Willis' chiaroscuro photography would look even more stunning.

[Todd Tomorrow]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Imagine The Godfather with extra dynamic range. Gordon Willis' chiaroscuro photography would look even more stunning.

I would really need to see it to believe it. So far it's all purely theoretical to me. I'm more into the films themselves and not that much of an AV perfectionist. There are many things about PQ and AQ people complain on here which I don't even pick up on. The way a decent Blu-ray looks on my budget projector still has me very impressed.

For me the question is if the difference will be enough to be worth thousands of $$$/£££ in upgrade of equipment and media so soon after the last time for anybody but the most dedicated (and well-off) AV fan.

[GenPion]

Originally Posted by singhcr

On that note, I had to hold in a chuckle when one of the engineers mentioned that he goes to Redbox when he can't find stuff to watch on Netflix's streaming service because VOD is $5 for a rental, which he considers expensive for a movie.

$5-7 (for HD streaming) IS a lot for a rental. Especially one that isn't even remotely as close to Blu-ray quality. This was from one of the engineers for 4K Blu-ray? I don't know where you read this but I certainly don't mind that kind of opinion. Disc formats trump digital only.

[singhcr]

Originally Posted by GenPion

$5-7 (for HD streaming) IS a lot for a rental. Especially one that isn't even remotely as close to Blu-ray quality. This was from one of the engineers for 4K Blu-ray? I don't know where you read this but I certainly don't mind that kind of opinion. Disc formats trump digital only.

No, it was from a manufacturing engineer that I was working with (I work at a medical device company in Minnesota). From his previous statements, he isn't too concerned with quality but simply price, so the concept of paying $5 for any movie was too much in his opinion.

[singhcr]

Originally Posted by I KEEL YOU

No need to twist the words so they can fit your agenda.

I am shocked to see that 4K extremists on this site want to murder anyone who isn't prepared to spend their life savings on a 4K player and support the format.

Who the hell here is "against" 4K??? If someone says that they don't think that the format will be a success based on the observation that DVD is still outselling the blu ray format 8 years after the release of blu ray and if they consider the fact that the jump from BD to 4K won't be as significant either technically but ESPECIALLY visually as the jump from DVD to BD, it doesn't mean that they are "against 4K".

Did I say anything like that? I was saying that it is one thing to say that the format is not viable or something along those lines, but there seems to be a decent number of people here who actually want the new format to fail. Considering this is an enthusiast site, that is what shocked me.

[AudioWarrior]

Where already getting 12-bit monitors and TV's in the form of Seiki Pro and Dells upcoming 5k monitor.

I know some current 4k TV's have 10-bit 4:2:2 color, but I don't know if there any that support 12-bit or 10-bit 4:4:4? The specs include High Dynamic range and an increase of the color specs, so maybe? The question is, if Blu-rays will adopt it right off the bat!

[Brightstar]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Imagine The Godfather with extra dynamic range. Gordon Willis' chiaroscuro photography would look even more stunning.

people will buy 4k disks in the future so they can see the movie the way it was ment to be seen. People who say no to 4k now will upgrade when the price comes down just like Dvd to Blu ray.

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by MartinL

There will always be a relatively small group of early adapters who will buy ultra HD sets and blu rays--but for most people, there is little interest in junking blu rays for yet another upgrade. When DVDs came up--there was a significant leap from VHS tapes--plus they were obviously more compact.

Some of us did begin upgrading from DVD to blu ray once the HD format war was settled. But even now, DVDs still outsell blu rays, and frustrating enough, studios are have only within the last couple of years started to accelerate the remastering of films for blu ray release. But even with the standard blu ray--there are still many films that haven't found their way into the HD format.

Of course, don't forget that there's another small group of enthusiasts who contend that physical media is dead and that downloads will be the way of the future. I happened to personally disagree with that--but studios would love it as a way to minimize production and distribution costs.

Personally, I love the blu ray format and have been one of those upgrading my DVD collection--and I think physical media is the only way to go if you love collecting movies.

4k will come and some will buy. I just happen to think --that like BD 3D--it will be a small niche market. My understanding is that sets will need to be 70 inches or larger to even be able to notice the difference between standard blu ray and 4K--and most people are not going to continue to buy newer and larger sets just for that purpose. Most people buy TV sets when they have to ---not just to keep up with the latest technology.

I think there is something else that is also in play here---something that the camera industry is going to with the advent of smart phones which has just about killed off the compact camera market--and is depressing sales of more expensive mirrorless and DSLR cameras-it's the "just good enough" syndrome. Aside from the tech enthusiasts who want the latest and greatest for the clearest and sharpest pictures--most people want a device that gives them decent photos to upload. And I think that is what is happening in the DVD/blu ray/4K blu ray arena.

Why would anyone 'junk their blurays'. 4k Blu-ray players will also play regular blu-ray discs

[Steedeel]

Originally Posted by singhcr

Did I say anything like that? I was saying that it is one thing to say that the format is not viable or something along those lines, but there seems to be a decent number of people here who actually want the new format to fail. Considering this is an enthusiast site, that is what shocked me.

You are not alone with that impression.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Brightstar

people will buy 4k disks in the future so they can see the movie the way it was ment to be seen. People who say no to 4k now will upgrade when the price comes down just like Dvd to Blu ray.

There's a pretty big unknown in there though: title prices.

Hardware prices will come down. Hardware prices always come down.

The pricing of titles will be interesting. We don't know where they're going to start or how sticky they'll be.

[singhcr]

Originally Posted by octagon

There's a pretty big unknown in there though: title prices.

Hardware prices will come down. Hardware prices always come down.

The pricing of titles will be interesting. We don't know where they're going to start or how sticky they'll be.

I imagine the hardware and software prices will be in line with what BD prices were during launch. Expect $25-30 per launch title and $400-500 for players. It may be cheaper, however, as they are an extension of the BD spec rather than a brand new one. Either way, that is my prediction.

I would hope that the new 4KBD players are better than the launch BD players. I got a Samsung BD-P1400 as my first player for $400. It was a 3rd generation player and it was a piece of junk. It took forever to load discs, the interface was clunky, and it had HDMI handshake issues that caused the image to shake every now and then. It took a year of dealing with Samsung's crappy customer service and 5 repair attempts before they finally gave me my money back. I bought a Panasonic DMP-BD55 player for the same price as my Samsung and it's a far more reliable unit with significantly improved video and audio playback.

As is my usual practice, I may avoid the first generation players until they work the bugs out.

[AnamorphicWidescreen]

OK, I'm not at the point where I'll be getting a 4K TV Set anytime soon...the PQ is obviously stunning, but I am waiting for the prices to go down. And, when I'm in the market for a new set (hopefully not for several more years), they will hopefully be more affordable.

So, here's my question: What size does the 4K set have to optimally be so you can tell the difference between regular Blu & 4K Blu?

To make an analogy, I have an LED HD set that's almost 50", and I can definitely tell the difference between regular DVD & Blu when watching on this set. That being said, if the set were smaller, I may not be able to tell the difference between both formats...

Thanks in advance!

[HDTV1080P]

Standard Blu-ray and 4K Blu-ray would be much more popular if the Hollywood studios would stop DVD production by 2016

The year 2016 would be an ideal time for the Hollywood movie studios to stop releasing movies on the native 480i DVD format. By 2016, the 2-D 1080P Blu-ray format that launched in 2006 will be 10 years old. Standalone Blu-ray players can be purchased for around $50 in the year 2014 for entry level models, and as long as inflation does not increase too much Blu-ray players will be even cheaper in a couple of years. More portable Blu-ray players and car Blu-ray players need to be released. In an ideal world all car flat panel screen setups sold by car manufactories should have a BD-ROM drive instead of a DVD-ROM drive (for back seat passengers and only front seat operation when the vehicle is in park).

If the Hollywood studios stop releasing movies on DVD, then movie releases could be made cheaper since there are no DVD combo packs that need to be authored and stamped. In addition, the Blu-ray format is more secure from movie pirates when compared to the DVD format. If the DVD format were out of the picture for new releases then the majority of consumers would support the standard 1080P Blu-ray format. The 4K Blu-ray format would be a niche format that over 2 million consumers support (4K would slowly grow in demand). In theory 4K Blu-ray will be much more popular then Blu-ray 3-D since special glasses are not needed for 2-D 4K Blu-ray. If the DVD format was out of the picture for new releases then the Blu-ray format would still get its competition from 4K streaming services and 4K download services.

Right now, the Hollywood studios and consumers are keeping the 1997 480i DVD format alive. Anamorphic widescreen DVD’s that are upscaled to 1080P look very good on a large flat panel screen from a distance. When one starts to seat closer to the screen and starts to get bigger screens, then the 1080P Blu-ray picture quality becomes noticeably better to the average consumer. Consumers see a big difference in picture quality when comparing 480i SD cable/satellite channels to 1080i HD channels (cable/satellite channels do not use anamorphic widescreen on their 480i broadcasts). My point is that it was a very smart decision for the DVD format to launch back in 1997 with anamorphic widescreen technology. If the DVD format did not have anamorphic widescreen technology then upscaled DVD’s would have looked similar to upscaled 480i cable/satellite channels. The anamorphic widescreen feature is what is making the standard 480i DVD format still very popular in 2014. The Blu-ray format would have been much more popular if DVD’s did not have anamorphic widescreen. Blu-ray still has the best high bit rate 1080P picture quality when compared to all other 1080P consumer video sources. However when the average consumer does not seat close enough to the display, they sometimes are not able to see a difference in picture quality when comparing the 480i DVD format to the 1080P Blu-ray format. 4K Blu-ray will require consumers to seat even closer to the screen and own larger screens to see the difference between 1080P and 4K. Someone that has a 4K desktop computer monitor that is around 30 inches will see an improvement if they seat one or two feet from the screen. My point is seating distance will be important when moving to 4K. Maybe the first generation 4K Blu-ray players might cost $1,000-$2,000+, over time prices will drop.

[bruceames]

Hollywood is not going to abandon a format that still has nearly a 70 percent market share. That is the only barometer that really matters, and not what "makes sense" to the average HD enthusiast. If and when DVD dips below 20-30% share, then they will probably consider it. But even if that happens, it will be a long time coming.

Blu-ray market share has been rising at a rate of only 3-4 percent a year and even more important, the rate of market share growth against DVD is declining. It used to be growing at 5-6 percent a year. So at that rate it will be 2020 before Blu-ray even attains a 50% market share over DVD.

A large part of the reason is that so many movies and TV shows get released on DVD only because they are not viable for Blu-ray. It could be do to low sales potential, or to higher manufacture costs, or because BD-r (burned media) is not a stable medium and can't be used for Blu-ray like DVD-r can (at least by the major studios, like Warner Archive). So DVD is supported by the sheer volume of releases.

Anyway, at this point I see DVD and Blu-ray as being on the same "team", in the fight for physical media to thrive against the onset of digital, and to want to kick off the biggest player on that team would not be in the "team's" best interest.

[HDTV1080P]

When I start purchasing 4K movies I hope they will not be a 4 disc combo pack (Blu-ray 4K, Blu-ray 3D, Blu-ray 1080P, DVD). I would prefer a 3 disc combo pack without the DVD version that I never use. Most consumers going to 4K Blu-ray will have upgraded all there DVD players to Blu-ray players.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

When I start purchasing 4K movies I hope they will not be a 4 disc combo pack (Blu-ray 4K, Blu-ray 3D, Blu-ray 1080P, DVD). I would prefer a 3 disc combo pack without the DVD version that I never use. Most consumers going to 4K Blu-ray will have upgraded all there DVD players to Blu-ray players.

If they do use combo packs for 4K, I doubt they will include the DVD. Perhaps they will have 2 sets of combo packs, 4k + BD and BD + DVD. But in any case the content will be very limited, at least in the beginning. But I seriously doubt the combo packs with 4K in it will also have the DVD. Captain America Winter Soldier just got released without a DVD in it (which is very unusual for Disney, but I guess it was Marvel's decision).

It's exciting that 4K BD will be coming, but I'll save my real excitement for when a few of the studios confirm that they will be on board.

[AudioWarrior]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

Hollywood is not going to abandon a format that still has nearly a 70 percent market share.

At some point they're going to have to pick a poison, just like they did with VHS. Either, they move onto something new, or be stuck with old technology that will stagnate with time!

I choose the former!

[octagon]

Originally Posted by singhcr

I imagine the hardware and software prices will be in line with what BD prices were during launch. Expect $25-30 per launch title and $400-500 for players. It may be cheaper, however, as they are an extension of the BD spec rather than a brand new one. Either way, that is my prediction.

I have two...concerns isn't really the right word but it will do...concerns with 4K disc pricing.

I keep flashing to various blogs and posts from different DVD/LD era label insiders bemoaning the fact that BD wasn't priced like a premium product from the beginning. Do I have any real reason to believe that kind of thinking is at all common among actual decision makers and that release prices for 4K discs will be significantly higher than their BD counterparts? No, not really. But it doesn't seem ridiculous either.

I also wonder whether studios might be inclined to tweak their production/distribution methods to move away from bargain bin pricing. These days if something is released with a street price of $20-$30 a little patience will almost always result in a significant discount.

I wonder if that will be the case with 4K discs.