Twilight Time Discussion Thread

[BuraddoRun]

It's sad that companies like this have to struggle. Twilight Time does GOOD work, putting out films to be preserved on Blu-ray that otherwise simply wouldn't be available. And they print informative booklets with all of their releases. For physical film collectors, they really are one of the best.

But ultimately, there just aren't 3,000 buyers, at $30 a pop, for every release. There are a lot of factors: movie quality, movie familiarity, budgets, advertising. For every release, you need to find fans of the movie that want it in BD format. Then you need to get the word out so said fans will purchase it. Then you need to try and reel in new buyers. Some of these new buyers may blind buy every release, but most will not. Price is a prohibiting factor on blind buys for many. No one wants to drop $30 for a movie they may end up not liking.

Me personally, unless the movie sounds really appealing, I will only blind buy things on sale. And though I'm a physical collector, I have no interest in owning every title. I just want the ones I want, which I would pay full price for, and the ones that sound interesting, which I may pay full price for. Beyond that, during sales, I'm likely to blind buy more titles.

Anyhow, I said it before, but I hope they find a way to stay around. I really do love what they do.

[English Patient]

Originally Posted by BuraddoRun

But ultimately, there just aren't 3,000 buyers, at $30 a pop, for every release. There are a lot of factors: movie quality, movie familiarity, budgets, advertising. For every release, you need to find fans of the movie that want it in BD format. Then you need to get the word out so said fans will purchase it. Then you need to try and reel in new buyers. Some of these new buyers may blind buy every release, but most will not. Price is a prohibiting factor on blind buys for many. No one wants to drop $30 for a movie they may end up not liking.

Agreed. I find TT's pricing fair, but most buyers now are so used to paying under $15-20 - and sometimes a lot less - that they instantly balk at $30. Also, I think the fan base for a lot of '50s and '60s titles probably skews very old - i.e., the fans are probably much older than fifty or sixty, and I don't think that demographic is as heavy into movie collecting as people in their 30s or 40s. For example, my dad loves movies - but he doesn't have any real desire to own them.

[Aclea]

That demographic is still fairly substantial - the people who drove the growth of retail VHS and DVD collecting back in the 80s and 90s - but it's primarily DVD with in many cases limited disposable income and no intention of upgrading. Like many markets, the problem is an ageing customer base not being replaced by a younger one who consume products in different ways, in this case streaming. And a lot of BD collectors want something to really give their system a workout and assume that means modern films, which is one reason scifi and fantasy tends to sell disproportionately well on the format.

[English Patient]

Originally Posted by Aclea

That demographic is still fairly substantial - the people who drove the growth of retail VHS and DVD collecting back in the 80s and 90s - but it's primarily DVD with in many cases limited disposable income and no intention of upgrading. Like many markets, the problem is an ageing customer base not being replaced by a younger one who consume products in different ways, in this case streaming. And a lot of BD collectors want something to really give their system a workout and assume that means modern films, which is one reason scifi and fantasy tends to sell disproportionately well on the format.

Definitely makes a lot of sense. I know many older folks who, if they do own any movies, have just a handful of DVDs and aren't interested in things like hi-def, remasters, restorations, special features, etc. And many millennials don't want the burden of physical copies and most likely wouldn't be interested in/haven't heard of a lot of movies from the TT catalog anyway. So with these kind of headwinds it's no surprise that an obscure '50s or '60s TT film doesn't sell and just falls through the cracks. Seems like an indie label pretty much needs a few Fright Night-type horror or sci-fi titles every year to stay in business. Old westerns, noirs and dramas aren't going to cut it anymore.

[bdgking]

Theater of blood
Devil in a blue dress
Boston Strangler &
Hound of the Baskervilles are all close to being sold out now at SAE

[Dailyan]

Originally Posted by English Patient

And many millennials don't want the burden of physical copies and most likely wouldn't be interested in/haven't heard of a lot of movies from the TT catalog anyway.

My only burden is finding shelf space and I’d say about 90% of my collection is blind-buys (that’s where the real fun is).

Old westerns, noirs and dramas aren't going to cut it anymore.

It’s a shame because those are my biggest fixes.

[Acer2010]

I ordered a classic movie from 1967 on Blu-ray from Twilight Time, and it came yesterday. I'm looking forward to watching it! Here it is:

[Brad1963]

The market is just not what it used to be for physical media. How difficult is that to comprehend? The recent statement from Kino regarding titles going OOP indicates they are taking note. Not to stay they are ceasing business; they are clearly not. But they are most likely going to continue to not renew titles that are poor performers (same with Shout) and focus on what has the most potential to sell. The 3,000 units TT set was probably quite generous when they began, and if they continue, they probably may want to cut that number down. Clearly Nick’s passing was a big blow to Twilight Time. He was the heart of it and I would imagine it has been difficult this year to try to maintain the company without him.

[Dailyan]

Originally Posted by Acer2010

I'm looking forward to watching it! Here it is:

[Show spoiler]

Probably my favorite Mancini score (both the film and LP versions).

[rdodolak]

Would love to see them finally release Alien Nation if (before) they close up shop.

[English Patient]

Originally Posted by Dailyan

My only burden is finding shelf space and I’d say about 90% of my collection is blind-buys (that’s where the real fun is).

That's good to hear - I'm sure there are plenty of other exceptions to my generalization about millennials. But it just seems like there really aren't enough exceptions to bring the industry back to its heyday. To some extent I even consider myself part of the problem - if there's a title I'm somewhat curious about, instead of blind buying it and supporting a label like TT, I end up thinking, "Well, I'll just wait and catch it on TCM or some other cable channel," since I've got 100+ channels. Maybe 10-15 years ago I would blind-buy a lot of DVDs. Nowadays I probably buy a third as many.

[KJones77]

I wasn't going to place another TT order after doing two last month, but I want to support them a bit after the recent developments and don't want to risk missing out entirely on some titles I want.

So, I decided to pick up these two in the Halloween sale:



I thought about getting The Boston Strangler too as I really dug it when I watched it a few months back, but I'll get the Plan B release from the UK instead (plus, they need some help too so it evens out).

Of the two, I've seen Black Widow before and just know my mom will love it (she loves all of those whodunit kind of films) so I'm looking forward to watching it with her. Plus, I enjoyed it myself when I saw it earlier this year (and felt guilty for not saving it to watch with her, so this'll rectify that lol). Strange Invaders is a blind buy and seems like a lot of fun, so I'll roll the dice.

[etimh]

Direct from TT, I got these from the Halloween sale:



Supporting them as best I can.

[SeanJoyce]

I've been tempted to jump on Black Widow ('54), but based on some healthy review-reading it just sounds so...ho-hum. The marriage of widescreen Technicolor + noir worked well enough in House of Bamboo, but it sounds like an odd couple for this material.

I love that cover art though.

[etimh]

Originally Posted by SeanJoyce

I've been tempted to jump on Black Widow ('54)...

Gene Tierney.

Enough said.

[StarDestroyer52]

Originally Posted by English Patient

That's good to hear - I'm sure there are plenty of other exceptions to my generalization about millennials. But it just seems like there really aren't enough exceptions to bring the industry back to its heyday. To some extent I even consider myself part of the problem - if there's a title I'm somewhat curious about, instead of blind buying it and supporting a label like TT, I end up thinking, "Well, I'll just wait and catch it on TCM or some other cable channel," since I've got 100+ channels. Maybe 10-15 years ago I would blind-buy a lot of DVDs. Nowadays I probably buy a third as many.

I'll blind buy many titles and many at high prices. The blind buy part of collecting is half of the fun for me and generally I have a very good idea of what blind buys I will like. I'd say my success rate with blind buying would be 99% with only the very rare time I make a mistake. Though after you add S&H for many TT films at either SAE or TT its gets very expensive though I understand TT's predicament and sympathize and my comments is not meant to be a slam against the great work that TT has done. I really do hope that TT can continue to thrive and would miss them dearly if they were gone. Maybe a release pattern of new films say just four times a year? If it is over for TT, I will least be very grateful for the great films they have released that probably never would've seen the light of day on BluRay and that they were real film buffs like many of us.

Also, there's are so many great companies releasing so many great films, which is a good problem to have and many of the UK labels are releasing many of the TT films giving me a second choice where I would have to buy the TT version and as the only option in town when I didn't have a region free player. Though, I will admit I am guilty of times of waiting for sales because at the end of the day despite how much I like classic film I'm still not made of cash and I haven't yet discovered my money tree. In my defense also, I have bought plenty of TT films at full price too like: The Birth of a Nation, The Bridge at Remagen, To Sir with Love, Two for the Road, and How To Steal A Million.

Though, the TT situation has made me realize one thing. I have been trying to slowly buy up many of the Fox owned films that I fear may not be available with the Disney uncertainty. Lately, I've been buying many UK releases of the Fox noirs and other Fox titles like A Tree Grows in Brooklyn, The Song of Bernadette, and Sink The Bismarck since I don't know how long they will be available and many are either OOP in the US or haven't seen a US release and probably never will. The only Fox owned films I feel safe in holding out are the ones Criterion has released and I may even come to regret that too which is one of the reasons I just picked up the BFI version of Night in the City. For example, I still need to pick up the UK versions of Man Hunt, Kiss of Death, and Thieves Highway plus the German release of Drums Along the Mohawk. The situation with The Iron Horse really hurt, I was looking super forward to that and that one hurt, but as I said that was on Disney not TT. I guess there is still the French Sidonis release but from what I understand is that release has forced subtitles where I'm happy to stay with the 2 DVD set that Fox released.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by Dailyan

I’d say about 90% of my collection is blind-buys (that’s where the real fun is).

Love this post.

Film should always be an adventure, not a routine.

[Aclea]

Originally Posted by SeanJoyce

I've been tempted to jump on Black Widow ('54), but based on some healthy review-reading it just sounds so...ho-hum. The marriage of widescreen Technicolor + noir worked well enough in House of Bamboo, but it sounds like an odd couple for this material.

I love that cover art though.

Well, it's certainly no House of Bamboo, but it's not bad:



A huge hit in 1954 but largely forgotten today, Black Widow at times plays like All About Eve reworked as a CinemaScope and Color by De Luxe whodunit revolving around who killed Eve? Indeed, its director-producer-screenwriter even pitched it as “the All About Eve of suspense pictures.” Was it Van Heflin’s successful Broadway producer, who took Peggy Ann Garner’s aspiring and oh so serious young writer under his wing only for his wife Gene Tierney to find her hanging in the bedroom? Was it Ginger Rogers’ insatiably poisonous diva who is never happier than when putting someone down, whether she knows them or not? Was it her easygoing husband Reginald Gardiner, who is used to everyone automatically assuming his last name is the same as his wife’s stage name? Was it her ex-flatmate Virginia Leith or her brother Skip Homeier, who was infatuated with Garner? Was it her uncle, actor Otto Kruger, who gave her her first step on the ladder?

The finger is so firmly pointed at Heflin, especially by the stories Garner told her friends and the letter she sent his wife about their imaginary relationship, that we know it can’t possibly be him even if he does insist on making himself look more suspicious, and a somewhat out of place George Raft doesn’t help it build up much tension as he walks through the investigation with uninspired professionalism as the cop on the case without ever making as much impact as whoever he’s sharing a scene with until he finally gets to bark in the last reel.

This doesn’t have Eve’s Joseph L. Mankiewicz behind the camera and at the typewriter, but with top screenwriter Nunnally Johnson (The Grapes of Wrath, The Gunfighter, How to Marry a Millionaire) directing, producing and adapting Hugh Wheeler’s pseudonymous novel it’s still a class act if notably short on suspense – for the first half this feels like a woman’s picture at least as interested in the marriages of glamorous people wearing fabulous clothes in expensive apartments as it is in who killed Garner.



Rogers may surprisingly get top billing for one of the smaller roles in the film (apparently her price for taking the part after Tallulah Bankhead turning it down) but it’s Heflin who takes centre-stage here, and surprisingly despite spending so much of his screen career suffering seems more at ease even when suspected of murder in this than in most of his other work. Gardner’s on particularly good form as the ‘kept husband’ who makes light of his humiliation, and genuine Broadway sensation Hilda Simms gets one good scene as a waitress in what would be her second and final film role before the twin professional handicaps of being black and blacklisted at a time when roles for non-white actresses were thin on the ground even if they weren’t suspected of being reds as well killed off her promising big screen career for good. Garner’s something of a weak link, managing the youthful seriousness about her vocation but less convincing with the sexual threat or calculating deviousness of the ‘purpose girl who forgot her purpose’ that emerges in the wake of her death: her relationship with Heflin seems so obviously surrogate parental that it’s hard to imagine anyone believing it developed into a crime of passion.

As befits its Great White Way backdrop, this feels very much like the kind of traditional well-made play that regularly tours the provinces as a staple of repertory companies, and could probably easily have been adapted as such with little alteration. More of a high-class soaper than a sweaty palmer, it’s an entertainingly glossy but resolutely undemanding number, the movie equivalent of a superior beach novel.

Twilight Time’s Bluray offers a fine transfer in the original Scope ratio, though there is a noticeable teal push in some scenes as per many Fox remasters, though in this case it doesn’t feel too out of place with the film’s color scheme. Extras are carried over from the DVD release – audio commentary by Alan K. Rode, featurettes on Gene Tierney and Ginger Rogers and, in 1.75:1, the original hyperbolic hard sell trailer (‘Not since the advent of CinemaScope has such powerful drama engulfed the screen!’ it screams, a claim which might have been a bit more impressive had the first CinemaScope film not been released only 13 months earlier) – with the addition of an isolated track for Leigh Harline’s score and booklet.

[StarDestroyer52]

Old westerns, noirs and dramas aren't going to cut it anymore.

That would be a pity, since those are three of my favorite genres. I fear in the future there won't be enough of us to sing the praises of the noir genre especially also with many of the American New Wave directors will be passing away soon. No matter the decade I feel like there will be enough of us to keep the classic Western alive as John Wayne continues to be one of the most popular actors decades after his death, though maybe the Westerns that aren't lucky enough to have The Duke may not be as lucky?

[KJones77]

Originally Posted by StarDestroyer52

Though, the TT situation has made me realize one thing. I have been trying to slowly buy up many of the Fox owned films that I fear may not be available with the Disney uncertainty. Lately, I've been buying many UK releases of the Fox noirs and other Fox titles like A Tree Grows in Brooklyn, The Song of Bernadette, and Sink The Bismarck since I don't know how long they will be available and many are either OOP in the US or haven't seen a US release and probably never will. The only Fox owned films I feel safe in holding out are the ones Criterion has released and I may even come to regret that too which is one of the reasons I just picked up the BFI version of Night in the City. For example, I still need to pick up the UK versions of Man Hunt, Kiss of Death, and Thieves Highway plus the German release of Drums Along the Mohawk. The situation with The Iron Horse really hurt, I was looking super forward to that and that one hurt, but as I said that was on Disney not TT. I guess there is still the French Sidonis release but from what I understand is that release has forced subtitles where I'm happy to stay with the 2 DVD set that Fox released.

Totally agree here. I recently picked up Fox's release of Panic in the Streets for this reason and recently bought my first pair of non-US/UK releases (The Gunfighter and A High Wind in Jamaica) for this reason. I've similarly prioritized other Fox titles at labels I usually buy from for the same reason you mentioned: I have no idea how long they'll be available.

I know Kino's insider tried to downplay any fears about Fox licensing deals, but from Indicator and Eureka's willingness to express the opposite, I would rather ere on the side of caution. It seems like there is a ticking clock on Fox titles on blu (especially older ones), so I'm not holding my breathe for new releases (like of The Kremlin Letter, which I was hoping TT would put out but now I'll just buy the French release soon or of The Last American Hero where I'll soon pickup the German version) and don't want to let the ones out already slip past me.