Twilight Time Discussion Thread

[billy pilgrim]

Originally Posted by 20th Century Boy

How is this? (no spoilers please). Never seen it. Am intrigued by the prospect of Hill doing Westerns (Have not seen The Long Riders either).

Well, I can say that I was greatly anticipating this film when it was released but, in fact, it was one of my most disappointing.

I love Jeff Bridges and think he is one of the finest actors alive today. I also think Ellen Barkin is a stone fox and am normally a fan of Walter Hill's output. I also find the true story of Wild Bill Hickok one of the more fascinating of the old west. However, I found this film to go down hill significantly when Wild Bill and Calamity Jane are in Deadwood. Something went very wrong at this point and the film, IMHO, veers completely off the road and not in a good way.

The finest depiction of Hickok, in my opinion, is the HBO Series Deadwood where Wild Bill, beautifully interpreted by the great Keith Carradine, is prominent in the first season.

The film, Wild Bill, is a curiosity, however I believe it doesn't come close to its potential given its A list stars and Hill directing.

My recommendation is a pass on this one.

The Long Riders, however, is a western classic and one of Hill's finest. It's a must own if you love westerns.

[Majin Blu]

I wonder if TT can get their hands on 711 Ocean Drive (1950)? I'd love to see that on Blu.

[ddwall]

Originally Posted by billy pilgrim

Well, I can say that I was greatly anticipating this film when it was released but, in fact, it was one of my most disappointing.

I love Jeff Bridges and think he is one of the finest actors alive today. I also think Ellen Barkin is a stone fox and am normally a fan of Walter Hill's output. I also find the true story of Wild Bill Hickok one of the more fascinating of the old west. However, I found this film to go down hill significantly when Wild Bill and Calamity Jane are in Deadwood. Something went very wrong at this point and the film, IMHO, veers completely off the road and not in a good way.

The finest depiction of Hickok, in my opinion, is the HBO Series Deadwood where Wild Bill, beautifully interpreted by the great Keith Carradine, is prominent in the first season.

The film, Wild Bill, is a curiosity, however I believe it doesn't come close to its potential given its A list stars and Hill directing.

My recommendation is a pass on this one.

The Long Riders, however, is a western classic and one of Hill's finest. It's a must own if you love westerns.

I agree with your opinion Wild Bill worth a watch not great. The long riders is a must have if you are a fan of Westerns. I would recommend Hour of the gun and lawman also good westerns of course not as modern as The long riders.

[cinerama]

Originally Posted by oildude

I watched Woody Allen's Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sex (But Were Afraid to Ask) a couple of nights ago. ... Another favorite skit was the cross-dressing father.

Many years ago I was in a NYC Chinese restaurant and saw the actor picking up his food order.

[mja345]

Finally got around to watching "The Only Game in Town" with Elizabeth Taylor and Warren Beatty. I picked it up very cheap during one of TT's sales as a, "Why not? I like both of the actors" purchase. This film is not well-regarded and generally considered an overly-talky snoozer. However, I thought it was fantastic. Both Beatty and Taylor are terrific as a Las Vegas lounge singer and former dancer respectively. Both characters are somewhat down on their luck and find fulfillment in each other, which is how many honest relationships start. Taylor is the mistress of a wealthy businessman, who comes back offering to marry her. The businessman character is portrayed as an incredibly insufferable prick, which is an obvious flaw of the film. Making him slightly more nuanced would have helped the film. However, the film is mostly very good. Eventually, Beatty and Taylor fall in love, but the journey to that point never feels contrived or trite. These are two people who are flawed, but find comfort in each other.

I persuaded my girlfriend to watch the film with me (she loves Elizabeth Taylor and romance films) and she was so overwhelmed she declared it "one of the best movies she has seen in a while". I'm not going to go to those lengths with my praise (I watch a lot more films than she does), but I really enjoyed it. It's another very underappreciated film in Twilight Time's catalog.

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by mja345

Finally got around to watching "The Only Game in Town" with Elizabeth Taylor and Warren Beatty. I picked it up very cheap during one of TT's sales as a, "Why not? I like both of the actors" purchase. This film is not well-regarded and generally considered an overly-talky snoozer. However, I thought it was fantastic. Both Beatty and Taylor are terrific as a Las Vegas lounge singer and former dancer respectively. Both characters are somewhat down on their luck and find fulfillment in each other, which is how many honest relationships start. Taylor is the mistress of a wealthy businessman, who comes back offering to marry her. The businessman character is portrayed as an incredibly insufferable prick, which is an obvious flaw of the film. Making him slightly more nuanced would have helped the film. However, the film is mostly very good. Eventually, Beatty and Taylor fall in love, but the journey to that point never feels contrived or trite. These are two people who are flawed, but find comfort in each other.

I persuaded my girlfriend to watch the film with me (she loves Elizabeth Taylor and romance films) and she was so overwhelmed she declared it "one of the best movies she has seen in a while". I'm not going to go to those lengths with my praise (I watch a lot more films than she does), but I really enjoyed it. It's another very underappreciated film in Twilight Time's catalog.

I'm glad to see another positive review of The Only Game in Town. I was beginning to think that I was The Only Fan on the Forum when it comes to this particular title.

[cropduster]

Originally Posted by mja345

Finally got around to watching "The Only Game in Town" with Elizabeth Taylor and Warren Beatty. I picked it up very cheap during one of TT's sales as a, "Why not? I like both of the actors" purchase. This film is not well-regarded and generally considered an overly-talky snoozer. However, I thought it was fantastic. Both Beatty and Taylor are terrific as a Las Vegas lounge singer and former dancer respectively. Both characters are somewhat down on their luck and find fulfillment in each other, which is how many honest relationships start. Taylor is the mistress of a wealthy businessman, who comes back offering to marry her. The businessman character is portrayed as an incredibly insufferable prick, which is an obvious flaw of the film. Making him slightly more nuanced would have helped the film. However, the film is mostly very good. Eventually, Beatty and Taylor fall in love, but the journey to that point never feels contrived or trite. These are two people who are flawed, but find comfort in each other.

I persuaded my girlfriend to watch the film with me (she loves Elizabeth Taylor and romance films) and she was so overwhelmed she declared it "one of the best movies she has seen in a while". I'm not going to go to those lengths with my praise (I watch a lot more films than she does), but I really enjoyed it. It's another very underappreciated film in Twilight Time's catalog.

Agreed. I was hesitant to pick this one up after reading some negative reviews of the film but decided to buy it anyway for $10 during a sale since I was beginning to explore Elizabeth Taylor's filmography. I ended up really enjoying it a lot more than I expected. I wouldn't call it a classic but it's a well made film with Beatty and Taylor giving amazing and at times honestly raw performances. I don't know how often I'll end up rewatching this but when the mood is right, I know it'll bring a smile to my face.

[Aclea]

While I wouldn't start a fan club for it, I do think it's got a bad rep over the years - probably because it's been so little seen and the ridiculously high budget and Taylor's diva demands tend to dominate any mentions it does get.



"Not being particularly honest myself, I admire it in other people."

The odds were stacked against The Only Game in Town from the very beginning. One of those hot properties that got cold fast, Frank D. Gilroy's play sold for a record $550,000 before it even opened, 20th Century Fox throwing in an additional $150,000 for him to write the screenplay: just as well, since the critics slaughtered it and it closed in a couple of weeks. Not that that stopped the studio going ahead with their plans to film it even after Frank Sinatra dropped out of the male lead, banking on Elizabeth Taylor's fading star power in a role that had Shirley MacLaine's name, address and phone number written all over it. It didn't help that Sinatra's replacement, a still youthful looking Warren Beatty, only emphasised that Taylor was getting on a bit to play a disillusioned chorus girl who finds a convenient no-strings arrangement with a gambling addicted piano player turning into love. Hiring a perfectionist director notorious for going over budget wasn't the best move either, but the icing on the cake was Taylor's insistence on shooting the Las Vegas-based film in Paris so she could be near Richard Burton while he was filming Staircase, which saw the budget for what is essentially a two-hander set almost entirely in two locations balloon to an incredible $11m. returning barely 10% of the investment at the box-office. Coming off two hugely expensive flops (The Diary of Anne Frank and The Greatest Story Ever told), it proved the last straw for director George Stevens' career, remembered, if at all, as another of those lousy swansongs so common for many major directors. Amazingly, the film got sort of remade to similar lack of success by Curtis Hanson as the almost equally unlucky Lucky You.

The film's reputation never recovered from the ill-conceived folly of its casting, production and massive losses, but it's really not that bad at all. Despite being billed as a romantic comedy it's more of a bittersweet drama - Beatty may crack wise, but the only big laughs come from two early close-ups of Taylor bobbing her head in a forlorn effort to try to sell her as part of the chorus in a big Vegas production number. For the most part it's a drama about two losers who drift together, united as much by their inability to break out of their bad habits and losing streaks to grab a chance for happiness as by any growing affection. Indeed, their bond seems to become stronger the more they start to grate on each other's nerves and threaten to go their separate ways. Both stars are on good form, Taylor toning it effectively down despite a script that occasionally throws in reminders that this sort of thing is not what she's really famous for (Liz Taylor playing a gal who gives back a diamond ring?), Beatty cast much more to type in a role that allows him fragile charm and the odd darker moment of self-disgust alike. The only other player who gets any chance to make an impression is Broadway musical performer Charles Braswell as Taylor's married lover, who's good enough to make you wonder why he only made two films and had barely a handful of TV credits to his name.

At heart it's a little film, Stevens adopting an almost continental approach to the character piece at times. It's overly dependent on the writing, which is problematic at times: there's a good opening, and a couple of particularly strong scenes in the middle and end of the film but the inbetweens get a bit flabby and at times feel like treading water in a script that could certainly have been a bit tighter. Henri Decae's cinematography is typically impressive, especially when the film gets out of the apartment and briefly onto the streets of Vegas or onto the impressive casino sets, and gets a good showcase on Twilight Time's remastered Blu-ray release that restores it to its original lustre (the disc also gives Maurice Jarre's jazzy lounge-style score an isolated track as well as including a booklet and the original trailer). It's certainly no lost classic, but at its best it's still a more interesting film that it gets credit for.

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by mja345

Finally got around to watching "The Only Game in Town" with Elizabeth Taylor and Warren Beatty. I picked it up very cheap during one of TT's sales as a, "Why not? I like both of the actors" purchase. This film is not well-regarded and generally considered an overly-talky snoozer. However, I thought it was fantastic. Both Beatty and Taylor are terrific as a Las Vegas lounge singer and former dancer respectively. Both characters are somewhat down on their luck and find fulfillment in each other, which is how many honest relationships start. Taylor is the mistress of a wealthy businessman, who comes back offering to marry her. The businessman character is portrayed as an incredibly insufferable prick, which is an obvious flaw of the film. Making him slightly more nuanced would have helped the film. However, the film is mostly very good. Eventually, Beatty and Taylor fall in love, but the journey to that point never feels contrived or trite. These are two people who are flawed, but find comfort in each other.

I persuaded my girlfriend to watch the film with me (she loves Elizabeth Taylor and romance films) and she was so overwhelmed she declared it "one of the best movies she has seen in a while". I'm not going to go to those lengths with my praise (I watch a lot more films than she does), but I really enjoyed it. It's another very underappreciated film in Twilight Time's catalog.

I also bought it cheap during a sale. Probably because I had super low expectations, I ended up quite liking it. I kept reading about how they filmed in Europe instead of Vegas so I was expecting something ridiculous looking, but they still filmed enough stuff in Vegas to establish the location and since it's primarily a character piece, it didn't matter anyway.

[mja345]

Great post, Aclea. You're right, Shirley Maclaine would have been perfect in Taylor's role, although Taylor was very good. It's a similar film to the MacLaine-Robert Mitchum vehicle, "Two for the Seesaw". Only problem is MacLaine and Warren Beatty are brother and sister haha. I could easily envision this film with, say, MacLaine and Robert Redford, but Beatty is excellent in his role. Sinatra would have been absolutely terrible in the role. I like Frank fine as an actor, but that's not a role he would have been effective in.

[Aclea]

Didn't think about the incest angle! MacLaine and the young Redford could have worked. But as it stands there's enough that works about the film for me to be glad to have it in my collection - especially since it's so rarely revived these days.

I've not seen Two for the Seesaw, so I'll put that on the list for the next Kino sale.

[billy pilgrim]

What a nice piece of writing, Aclea.

I enjoyed this film quite a lot. Bought it for $9.99 or whatever in their clearance sale and never regretted it.

However, I am a fan of misjudged films and also of certain kinds of bad films, so I have a hard time finding people with similar eclectic tastes. Anyone can review a popular film however the joy, for me, is finding and sharing the oddities that others may have dismissed.

BTW, my favorite scene in TOGIT was the aforementioned chorus girl dance scene with Taylor. Really entertaining. I enjoyed the melodrama that marks the rest of the film quite a bit also.

Anyway, a big thanks for the great review and for providing positive exposure to this largely dismissed film to other film lovers on this forum.

[mja345]

Originally Posted by billy pilgrim

What a nice piece of writing, Aclea.

I enjoyed this film quite a lot. Bought it for $9.99 or whatever in their clearance sale and never regretted it.

However, I am a fan of misjudged films and also of certain kinds of bad films, so I have a hard time finding people with similar eclectic tastes. Anyone can review a popular film however the joy, for me, is finding and sharing the oddities that others may have dismissed.

BTW, my favorite scene in TOGIT was the aforementioned chorus girl dance scene with Taylor. Really entertaining. I enjoyed the melodrama that marks the rest of the film quite a bit also.

Anyway, a big thanks for the great review and for providing positive exposure to this largely dismissed film to other film lovers on this forum.

There are a lot of films that got ripped to shreds on initial release for whatever reason that people have just accepted as being bad without ever seeing. A film like "Heaven's Gate" has been re-evaluated because it was such a colossal, high-profile failure that it generated enough interest that plenty of people have watched it and discovered it has many merits. Films like "The Only Game in Town", "The Fortune" and "The Disappearance" have poor reputations, but haven't generated enough interest to really receive any mainstream re-evaluation. It's up to film nerds like us to do it on message boards haha. I glad TT has released a fair number of films like this.

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by mja345

There are a lot of films that got ripped to shreds on initial release for whatever reason that people have just accepted as being bad without ever seeing. A film like "Heaven's Gate" has been re-evaluated because it was such a colossal, high-profile failure that it generated enough interest that plenty of people have watched it and discovered it has many merits. Films like "The Only Game in Town", "The Fortune" and "The Disappearance" have poor reputations, but haven't generated enough interest to really receive any mainstream re-evaluation. It's up to film nerds like us to do it on message boards haha. I glad TT has released a fair number of films like this.

Ishtar is another movie that people just accept as being one of the worst movies of all time but the first time I saw it, expecting it to be terrible, I actually sat up straight and started to enjoy it. It's not a great movie by any means and would have worked better with someone a bit more adept at comedy like Robin Williams or Bill Murray in the lead roles, but it's nowhere near the cinematic abortion it's made out to be.

[thatguamguy]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

would have worked better with someone a bit more adept at comedy like Robin Williams or Bill Murray in the lead roles, but it's nowhere near the cinematic abortion it's made out to be.

I think Hoffman is pretty great in Ishtar (and pretty adept at comedy in general), but that Beatty is totally miscast.

[mja345]

Originally Posted by thatguamguy

I think Hoffman is pretty great in Ishtar (and pretty adept at comedy in general), but that Beatty is totally miscast.

Beatty's performance and character are way off the mark in "Ishtar", despite the movie not being anywhere near as awful as its reputation. It almost feels like he was channeling Stephen Furst of "Animal House" fame. His performance and character are very Fursty. A complete dolt who can barely string together coherent sentences. I thought the film would have worked better if Beatty's character was more of a loud-mouthed, abrasive a-hole than just a simpleton. His character could still be dumb, but dumb in a far more entertaining way.

[anthonyls]

Originally Posted by RCRochester

Ishtar is another movie that people just accept as being one of the worst movies of all time

It got that reputation in the industry due to its high budget at the time (which was due to its to co-stars) and high expectations everyone had of it. If you watch the movie with those two things in mind... it's a horrible movie. All this talent... and this is the result!!! Arrrgh! On the other hand, if you expect nothing of the movie and all the talent behind it (people were also expecting this to be the big breakout hit movie for Elaine May)... then you might like it... in a ho hum kind of way. Meh?

[mja345]

Originally Posted by anthonyls

It got that reputation in the industry due to its high budget at the time (which was due to its to co-stars) and high expectations everyone had of it. If you watch the movie with those two things in mind... it's a horrible movie. All this talent... and this is the result!!! Arrrgh! On the other hand, if you expect nothing of the movie and all the talent behind it (people were also expecting this to be the big breakout hit movie for Elaine May)... then you might like it... in a ho hum kind of way. Meh?

Expectations and production issues are very much at play with a lot of these films that get labeled as legendarily awful. Another Beatty film, "Town and Country", has an atrocious reputation due to its troubled production, but when you watch it, it's a fairly generic comedy. Not good, not bad, with a few chuckles here and there.

Sometimes, films earn their reputations of being atrocious ("Gigli" being the best example), but it varies case by case.

[bdgking]

Per Twilight Time's Face Book page

Inherit the wind and where the wind blows are both low quantities .

I have noticed that once they announce that is usually means they have no more than 200 copies remaining of that title and usually a lot less than that .

Those 2 titles should be sold out soon .

Hope they put 2 new great titles 2 replace them on the 7 for 70 once they sell out .

So odd that they just cannot sell out of titles from 2011 - 2013 .
They likely would have to have those ones on sale for $5 - $7 each to ever sell out if anytime soon .

[RCRochester]

Originally Posted by bdgking

Per Twilight Time's Face Book page

Inherit the wind and where the wind blows are both low quantities .

I have noticed that once they announce that is usually means they have no more than 200 copies remaining of that title and usually a lot less than that .

Those 2 titles should be sold out soon .

Hope they put 2 new great titles 2 replace them on the 7 for 70 once they sell out .

So odd that they just cannot sell out of titles from 2011 - 2013 .
They likely would have to have those ones on sale for $5 - $7 each to ever sell out if anytime soon .

Per that same FB post, both titles are now $9.95. Bear in mind that Kino will be releasing Inherit The Wind soon too, so there's no urgency to snap it up.