Twilight Time Discussion Thread

[cavesailor]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

I think it will see similar sales that Desiree has, which going from the lack of discussion here, I doubt is doing anywhere near as well as the 6 titles you've listed.

I am one of the probable few that have bought Desiree. I did so because Jean Simmons is my fav. actress. This is not one of Brando's greatest films. I guess his ego probably matched Napolean's though.

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

3 years is a long time I suppose. I think for it to sell out it will need quite a bit of interest from people who have no prior familiarity with the film (people like myself). But after undertaking the research I always perform regarding the quality of a film when considering a new blind buy, I'm having difficulty coming up with anything other than "mediocre". I think it will see similar sales that Desiree has, which going from the lack of discussion here, I doubt is doing anywhere near as well as the 6 titles you've listed.

Not as well as those titles Eddie, but if SAE's cart totals are to be believed even in general (I mean, I see the totals still updating), then Désirée has been one of their better selling deep catalogue titles, currently sitting around 1200 remaining, roughly the same territory as Bite The Bullet. I don't find that hard to believe considering it is all region and was totally MIA in widescreen since its early 90s Laserdisc release. Lot of Fox 'Scope fans out there around the world...

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

I'll probably pick it up myself, eventually, because it looks intriguing enough. But it'll only ever be something that gets added on to another order, when I get an itch to finally see it.

Bingo! I think that's exactly how many of these vintage titles in the series continue to move, albeit slower than the newer, more mainstream stuff. After pre-order and the first month or two of sales, they just seem to get added to carts with no predictable frequency or pattern as folks are buying other titles...mainly to save on the combined shipping. As we saw with Mysterious Island, that title bounced back to life after Journey was released (another Jules Verne fantasy-adventure with another classic score by Bernard Herrmann). After that, the remaining Mysterious Island discs went quite quickly, coincidentally(?) selling right out around the same time as Journey went bye-bye.

It seems that some of these vintage TT titles just need a 'helper release' to piggy-back on for renewed sales action...a problem that eventually goes away as the collection expands and deepens. This could be why The Egyptian, which has done very well despite being TT's priciest title to date, will probably just need the release of another neglected ancient epic to take it all the way home.

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

I think what will determine [TROR's] possible sell out most greatly, is how more well known Twilight Time becomes over the next couple of years. There no doubt is a couple of thousand people who would pay $35 for this release, its making them aware of its availability that is the key issue.

Absolutely agree, but the best tool for awareness has actually been the series itself...one fine Blu-ray experience leading to another...and another...and another. It was no different with the catalogue CD soundtrack labels; it took awhile for awareness of Intrada and La-La Land to instill wider collector confidence in their pricier limited editions. Now many of their releases sell out very quickly. Heck, if you go all the way back to Criterion's early days on Laserdisc, it was kinda the same story...believe me, I took a several deep breaths before parting with well over $100 bucks for Forbidden Planet...and then 2001: a space odyssey...and then North by Northwest. After my first dozen or so Criterion LDs, I couldn't order them fast enough.

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

To counter that though, TROR is one of the few TT releases that has an equivalent release elsewhere in the world, for a much lower price (currently $13!). That will surely impact sales from TT's international customers if the quality of the disc is the same, and TT's domestic customers if the release is region free.

Ahhh...but we don't know yet that it will be "equivalent" Eddie. There are already rumblings about the quality history of the German label it landed with (not Fox). And as we saw with The Egyptian, none of the other overseas Fox divisions had access to the 2010 rescan and remaster that TT got from the domestic parent, none had the IST, and if I recall correctly, none had the commentary. So we don't know yet what this German edition of TROR will be like, other than its cheaper price. However, as a collector, I do know TT will get the very best master that Fox has in its assets, and they will treat it well...the disc authoring...the IST...and the packaging. Nevertheless, it's a given that some will always place price above any other consideration, so there likely will be at least some impact on the sales of TT's version, at least initially.

All things being equal though, assuming they're both working from the same master, which version do you think most 'serious' fans of this movie - regardless where they live - would actually want in their collection?



Call me a shallow packaging snob, but to me the choice is a no-brainer...

[anthonyls]

Originally Posted by JoeDeM

I think that TT should be posting a trailer on youtube for these more obscure titles, they really need to try and market this better.

I agree... that would be a great idea. Why don't they?

[EddieLarkin]

I'm not at all a packaging snob, and am by no means flush with cash, but even I wouldn't be able to resist picking up the TT release over the German one. I appreciate the work TT put into a release.

It's much the same with importing Criterion. There are plenty of Criterion titles that have almost exact equivalents over here in the U.K., AV quality and supplements wise. Yet none of them can match the quality of the packaging, artwork, booklets etc. Sometimes it means spending 4 times as much on a title! I guess that's why the TT price doesn't bother me. I've been importing Criterion since I was 16 at great detriment to my wallet, often in the face of all logic.

[Andrew-Kenneth]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

Call me a shallow packaging snob, but to me the choice is a no-brainer...

Well, I guess I'm less of a snob than you.
(I'm not as big a TT-collector as a lot of posters on this thread - only ordered two disc from them so far)

I consider german blu-ray's, with the german age-rating displayed prominently on the cover, as exotic additions to my collection.

If both discs have identical picture and audio quality and both editions have identical special features (extra's, commentaries, etc...) I guess TT would have a hard time persuading me to part with an additional 20 USD for a booklet and different cover art.

A big drawback of the german edition however might be the use of forced german subtitles. (a lot of german discs are marred by this)
If the german disc has forced german subs, the TT-edition will be the only acceptable choice for me.

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by Andrew-Kenneth

I consider german blu-ray's, with the german age-rating displayed prominently on the cover, as exotic additions to my collection.

We couldn't be further apart on that point Andrew-Kenneth. I've come to detest those large 'hazmat'-style age warnings on Euro releases, mainly because of what they represent...like cancer warnings on cigarette packs or something. I put up with these sometimes large, intrusive defacements of original cover art if there's no alternative, but really, there's nothing "exotic" about them...they're just a blatant concession to modern nanny state rating systems and government-sanctioned tastes. I wish more of them were peel-off because they really do look like a blight on the package, and are anathema to well-seasoned collectors just interested in an old movie that had no controversial content to begin with...it just happened to be released before such rating nonsense overcame reason and common sense.

Originally Posted by Andrew-Kenneth

If both discs have identical picture and audio quality and both editions have identical special features (extra's, commentaries, etc...) I guess TT would have a hard time persuading me to part with an additional 20 USD for a booklet and different cover art.

Agreed. And I've conceded that this could be true for the masters used for TROR - we just don't know for sure yet what this label had access to from Fox Germany - but even if the master was identical (as with Cleopatra), some of us are soundtrack buffs, so the IST is always a major plus for me with TT releases. I realize others don't place such a premium on that feature, but to me, it's golden. I often play my TT discs and pump the IST into my den while I'm working. Actually, I'm 'listening' to TT's The Sound and the Fury Blu-ray again as I write this.

Originally Posted by Andrew-Kenneth

A big drawback of the german edition however might be the use of forced german subtitles. (a lot of german discs are marred by this) If the german disc has forced german subs, the TT-edition will be the only acceptable choice for me.

Well, here's the irony Andrew-Kenneth: To date, it's been quite a challenge getting ANY subtitles on TT's Fox titles, so that's the least of your worries with this stateside edition!

Bottom line: My alt-region buying has always been strictly centered on source content, rather than price. I mean, if it's a natively French, German, Danish, Korean, or whatever film, chances are that a home label will offer the best produced, fullest featured home video edition. Heck, I even prefer our own Canadian releases of Canadian movies because more often than not we seem to get SEs that no one else does (just compare the 2-disc Canuck DVD of Atanarjuat to the single disc U.S. release of The Fast Runner - there's really no comparison).

So when a big ole splashy American 'Scope-era Hollywood production like TROR finally gets released on Blu-ray, my natural inclination would be to go for the home label anyway. Although I know others don't share that view, it just makes more collector sense to me because this was a U.S. movie.

[Clark Kent]

An interesting note to pass along. Christine has been playing sporadically on the HD version of AMC this month, for Halloween. It does not appear that AMC has access to a true HD master of Christine for broadcast, though that is not really out of the ordinary for the channel.

I imagine the transfer made for the upcoming Twilight Time release has to have been made very recently.

[bigdaddyhorse]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

An interesting note to pass along. Christine has been playing sporadically on the HD version of AMC this month, for Halloween. It does not appear that AMC has access to a true HD master of Christine for broadcast, though that is not really out of the ordinary for the channel.

I imagine the transfer made for the upcoming Twilight Time release has to have been made very recently.

I caught a bit of an airing the other day, and it was cropped to 1.78 so I only watched a few seconds. It didn't look "wow" at all. Although it clearly was HD (not all things that say HD really are I've noticed) it looked flat, but the cropping bugged me most. I thought AMC was one of the channels that usually has the correct ratio, must've mixed it up.

[fitprod]

Originally Posted by bigdaddyhorse

I thought AMC was one of the channels that usually has the correct ratio, must've mixed it up.

They only get access to what the studio gives them. Sony usually has about 8 masters for scope titles. 4x3; 4x3 Edited for Broadcast; 16x9 SD 2.35; 16x9 SD 1.78 Crop; 16x9 SD 1.78 Crop Edited for Broadcast; HD 2.35; HD 1.78 Crop; HD 1.78 Crop Edited for Broadcast.

I'd be surprised if the created an HD 2.35 Edited for Broadcast master.

fitprod

[bigdaddyhorse]

Originally Posted by fitprod

They only get access to what the studio gives them. Sony usually has about 8 masters for scope titles. 4x3; 4x3 Edited for Broadcast; 16x9 SD 2.35; 16x9 SD 1.78 Crop; 16x9 SD 1.78 Crop Edited for Broadcast; HD 2.35; HD 1.78 Crop; HD 1.78 Crop Edited for Broadcast.

I'd be surprised if the created an HD 2.35 Edited for Broadcast master.

fitprod

I definitely mixed it up as I thought AMC was an uncut channel. I must be thinking of IFC, which unfortunately doesn't have an HD channel on my cable.

At least it was better than Scarface. Just before that blu came out it was playing on an HD channel, but it was the same old 4X3 TV edit from the early 80's. Think that was TBS or something of that ilk, and I just wanted to get an idea of nice it could look in HD, yet couldn't from the crap SD airing.

[Andrew-Kenneth]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

We couldn't be further apart on that point Andrew-Kenneth. I've come to detest those large 'hazmat'-style age warnings on Euro releases, mainly because of what they represent...like cancer warnings on cigarette packs or something. I put up with these sometimes large, intrusive defacements of original cover art if there's no alternative, but really, there's nothing "exotic" about them...they're just a blatant concession to modern nanny state rating systems and government-sanctioned tastes. I wish more of them were peel-off because they really do look like a blight on the package, and are anathema to well-seasoned collectors just interested in an old movie that had no controversial content to begin with...it just happened to be released before such rating nonsense overcame reason and common sense.
(...)
Bottom line: My alt-region buying has always been strictly centered on source content, rather than price. I mean, if it's a natively French, German, Danish, Korean, or whatever film, chances are that a home label will offer the best produced, fullest featured home video edition. Heck, I even prefer our own Canadian releases of Canadian movies because more often than not we seem to get SEs that no one else does (just compare the 2-disc Canuck DVD of Atanarjuat to the single disc U.S. release of The Fast Runner - there's really no comparison).

So when a big ole splashy American 'Scope-era Hollywood production like TROR finally gets released on Blu-ray, my natural inclination would be to go for the home label anyway. Although I know others don't share that view, it just makes more collector sense to me because this was a U.S. movie.

For what it's worth, german studios have responded to the complaints of collector's like yourself concerning the largish age-warnings present on the covers of blu-ray's (and dvd's).

Nowadays most german covers are printed on both sides of the cover insert.
(On the outside with age-warning, on the inside without.)
So, people who hate the age-warning can just flip the cover insert over in order to display a cover without said age-warning.

Personally I've never done this with my small collection of german imports. I guess I like the way the big german age-warning lets my german imports stand out in my collection as imports.
(If I were german and the majority of my discs would have these "hazmat style warnings" I might just do the opposite.)

Your "home-label theory" sounds logical but can only be applied by people who know their languages well. (Main feature might contain english subtitles, extra's might not.)

Moreover foreign editions of certain films might just prove more collectible.
(I'm quite happy with my german "Inglourious Basterds" blu-ray. Only this german edition contains the slightly longer theatrical cut of this film that was shown in german, austrian and swiss cinemas.)

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by Andrew-Kenneth

For what it's worth, german studios have responded to the complaints of collector's like yourself concerning the largish age-warnings present on the covers of blu-ray's (and dvd's).

Nowadays most german covers are printed on both sides of the cover insert.
(On the outside with age-warning, on the inside without.)
So, people who hate the age-warning can just flip the cover insert over in order to display a cover without said age-warning.

I wasn't aware of that Andrew-Kenneth, but thanks for the tip. Might just come in handy to know if the Germans ever do release a 'deal-breaker' title not available natively, or elsewhere.

Originally Posted by Andrew-Kenneth

Your "home-label theory" sounds logical but can only be applied by people who know their languages well. (Main feature might contain english subtitles, extra's might not.)

In my own experience, this has cropped up mostly with French language films, which fortunately I have just enough fluency to muddle through catching the gist of what everyone is saying. But granted, this would be a problem for me with...say...Korean.

[CinemaScope]

Originally Posted by Andrew-Kenneth

If both discs have identical picture and audio quality and both editions have identical special features (extra's, commentaries, etc...) I guess TT would have a hard time persuading me to part with an additional 20 USD for a booklet and different cover art.

A big drawback of the german edition however might be the use of forced german subtitles. (a lot of german discs are marred by this)
If the german disc has forced german subs, the TT-edition will be the only acceptable choice for me.

I think you can take it as read that the German Blu of The Rains Of Ranchipur won't have the same extras, but if the picture & sound are the same (& I don't see why they shouldn't be), then it's 10 Euro v $29 (both plus p&p), a no brainer for me, & I don't really care about the cover. I can only see the spine when it's on the shelf. I shall be reading reviews first.

[Andrew-Kenneth]

All this talk about the upcoming release of TROR both by TT and by a competing german label led me to spend some time on Amazon.de.

Discovered that this friday Fritz Lang's Indian epics "Der Tiger von Eschnapur" and "Das Indische Grabmal" will see release on german blu-ray.
(I'm very interested in ordering these films)

Researched some more Lang-blu-ray's on the Beaver-site (M, Metropolis) and then placed my 3rd TT-order => The Big Heat.
I'm looking forward to watching this Fritz Lang blind-buy.

[EddieLarkin]

Originally Posted by Andrew-Kenneth

All this talk about the upcoming release of TROR both by TT and by a competing german label led me to spend some time on Amazon.de.

Discovered that this friday Fritz Lang's Indian epics "Der Tiger von Eschnapur" and "Das Indische Grabmal" will see release on german blu-ray.
(I'm very interested in ordering these films)

Researched some more Lang-blu-ray's on the Beaver-site (M, Metropolis) and then placed my 3rd TT-order => The Big Heat.
I'm looking forward to watching this Fritz Lang blind-buy.

The Indian Epics are also confirmed to be coming from the Masters of Cinema label in the UK at some point, though no date/announcement has yet been made.

Die Nibelungen (another Lang) has just been released by them, and will be seeing its U.S. release from Kino Nov' 6th

[hootowls]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

The Indian Epics are also confirmed to be coming from the Masters of Cinema label in the UK at some point, though no date/announcement has yet been made.

Die Nibelungen (another Lang) has just been released by them, and will be seeing its U.S. release from Kino Nov' 6th

Lang's Indian Epic already looks awesome on the MoC DVDs so the Blu version should be almost over the top.

[Blu Titan]

I assume that the new pre-orders will still be available for 4 pm EST today? Nothing in TT's Facebook account about this. Not much interest here either.

[oildude]

Originally Posted by Blu Titan

I assume that the new pre-orders will still be available for 4 pm EST today? Nothing in TT's Facebook account about this. Not much interest here either.

Yeah, I am thinking same as you. I will assume it is 4 pm EST today, but it sure is quiet here and on TT facebook page when I checked it last night.

[Arkadin]

it's supposed to be today, and I feel confident it will be.

[filmmusic]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

The Indian Epics are also confirmed to be coming from the Masters of Cinema label in the UK at some point, though no date/announcement has yet been made.

Where has this been confirmed? i can't find anything..