Twilight Time Discussion Thread

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by tomahawk

I would say that the fact of TT seemingly extending the sale indefinitely means that there are no current plans for further price drops. So, I would definitely get what you want now while it's in stock. (I will be taking my own advice, as I've been holding out up until this point.)

I’m inclined to agree with this, but who knows? They really don’t seem to be in any hurry, at least at the moment. Also, there is always the possibility they could unload excess stock to liquidators or mega-resellers. I admit that it took a big chunk out of my discretionary income to get all the remaining titles I wanted during this sale, but not as much as it would if they go OOP and command OOP prices. Even if there is further price drops in the future, how much will I save in the end and will the titles I want still be around? I’ve messed up before on a few Blus where I thought the price would drop and it never did. Fool me once, I suppose.

[Professor Echo]

The quote below comes from the TT Sale thread in the DEALS Forum. I thought I’d share it here since I found it really interesting and for those who may not have seen it already. Ace poster Hariseldon has been an invaluable resource in these forums for many Blu sales over the years and has saved me lots of money, so kudos and thanks.

Originally Posted by hariseldon

Not surprising HARLOCK now sold out at TT.com

Assuming the sale ends in a few minutes some useless numbers

8 titles went completely OOP during the sale

18 additional items sold out at TT.com but still have stock at SAE.

The 2 items I was tracking that appeared to sell the most copies
MODEL SHOP -- 165 copies
SEVEN UPS -- approx 150

The only item that started with less than 100 copies at TT.com that didn't sell out was
BRUTAL TALES OF CHIVALRY -- started 94, ended with 17


The item that appeared to sell the least was Pin Up Girl with around 20-25.
Note I didn;t have accurate count on most items that started above 200-250 and wasn;t really tracking 2/3 of the titles in the sale


There now appears to be around 40 BD exclusive at SAE and only 1 exclusively at TT (Most Beautiful Wife)


In general Westerns, Noir, Crime Thriller (Cops or Robber-centric), and Woody Allen seem to be the most popular
Historical Dramas not so much

A few titles I was surprised that really didn't sell all that well
My Cousin Rachel -- about 30 copies
Suddenly Last Summer
The Admirable Crichton
The Hospital

[Dollar Colonel]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

I’m inclined to agree with this, but who knows? They really don’t seem to be in any hurry, at least at the moment. Also, there is always the possibility they could unload excess stock to liquidators or mega-resellers. I admit that it took a big chunk out of my discretionary income to get all the remaining titles I wanted during this sale, but not as much as it would if they go OOP and command OOP prices. Even if there is further price drops in the future, how much will I save in the end and will the titles I want still be around? I’ve messed up before on a few Blus where I thought the price would drop and it never did. Fool me once, I suppose.

TT probably has an exclusivity deal with SAE as evidenced by the matching prices, but it seems to me that if they didn't have such a deal, the best way to maximum returns would be to send them all to Amazon and charge $19.99 until the end of time. They'll get better exposure to the casual audience who are more likely to impulse buy them on Amazon than on a niche site.

I can't imagine TT has too much overhead these days so they'll just be out the cost of FBA storage/commission. The titles can sit there forever until a new format comes along or another label releases them. A lot of these titles are rather obscure so they're unlikely to get another mass release.

[captveg]

I've bought all the titles I want, and I have about 50 titles left that are in print that I've never seen. About half of these are available via streaming. Once I check those out and decide on whether to own them or not I'll have about 25 titles left as potential blind buys, and nearly all of them are in the $15 category. So unless some of them start being listed as low quantity it'll probably be a while before I blind buy any more (I did just blind buy three of $15 Fox titles).

[hariseldon]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

The quote below comes from the TT Sale thread in the DEALS Forum. I thought I’d share it here since I found it really interesting and for those who may not have seen it already. Ace poster Hariseldon has been an invaluable resource in these forums for many Blu sales over the years and has saved me lots of money, so kudos and thanks.

Thanks for the thoughts. When I did that at 2am last night I didn't double check things completely, but it's pretty close. I updated that post a bit ago with a few more details

Actually 12 items appears to have SOLD OUT completely now that THE TWILIGHT SAMURAI appears to be sold out at SAE (again). Honestly this is probably the 3rd time it's been listed as sold out over the last couple of years -- not sure exactly why this item has been so screwy

I do expect Seven-Ups to become the top seller fairly soon and if/when it sells out at TT.com it will have sold a bit more than 200-210 copies at TT for the sale. It's been selling pretty steadily 15-20 copies per week, but sold over 40 copies from 4/20-4/27

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by hariseldon

Actually 12 items appears to have SOLD OUT completely now that THE TWILIGHT SAMURAI appears to be sold out at SAE (again). Honestly this is probably the 3rd time it's been listed as sold out over the last couple of years -- not sure exactly why this item has been so screwy

Tell me about it. I was just going over today's email and saw the sale extension mail from SAE. Scanned down the list to see what they said were in LQ, and noticed that they listed The Twilight Samurai as being "sold out". I thought "Wait...wasn't that sold out a while back? Why was it even being listed for this sale?" And, yes, I have it flagged as having gone OOP on 2018 12 26. I hadn't realized that it had come back from the dead, let alone multiple times.

[mep]

Strange, that they don´t lower the prices at least a bit. I would guess only a certain amount of people are interested in buying their titles and those most likely already bought all titles they personally thought are priced decent enough. Or at least give like 5$ off if you order for at least 50$ and 10$ if you order for at least 100$. Normally they also only have a certain license window (three to five years), so they don´t have infinite time so liquidate their business.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by mep

Normally they also only have a certain license window (three to five years), so they don´t have infinite time so liquidate their business.

That's not necessarily the case. As far as we know (not having any access to their contracts) they have an exclusive license for US rights to each title for a three-year window. It's not clear when the window begins -- with the signing of the contract? with the start of pre-orders? with the street date of the actual release? In any event, their windows don't limit the time they can sell the copies they press, only their right to exclusivity in offering a title for sale in the US. Their last two released titles were the Fox films The Tall Men and Whirlpool, which streeted on 2019 09 17. So, according to the contract, Fox/Disney won't be able to license them to anyone else until September 2022, give or take, unless the two parties renegotiate.

Quite a number of titles have been offered for sale that have been a long time in release. Currently, the oldest release still in print is Alamo Bay, which had a street date of 2013 09 10 -- 6½ years ago -- so it's fairly clear that they are contractually allowed to keep selling their stock until it's gone.

[hariseldon]

Taken a bit further -- of the items still on sale that they've lost their exclusive rights window -- HOW MANY have new releases? I'm not sure I can find a single item (not talking about items that sold out or a couple that were bought out). It's not like the studios are falling over themselves to re-release them under any condition.

It seems many of the SONY items would be ripe for their MOD program. Even American Buffalo which had that weird rights issues never got released. The transfer is there, so there should be zero upfront costs other than the actual disc production/distribution. They could keep their own bonus material and easily discard the TT exclusive bonus.

What proportion of them even have an international release to fall back on?

[BagheeraMcGee]

Originally Posted by hariseldon

Taken a bit further -- of the items still on sale that they've lost their exclusive rights window -- HOW MANY have new releases? I'm not sure I can find a single item (not talking about items that sold out or a couple that were bought out). It's not like the studios are falling over themselves to re-release them under any condition.

It seems many of the SONY items would be ripe for their MOD program. Even American Buffalo which had that weird rights issues never got released. The transfer is there, so there should be zero upfront costs other than the actual disc production/distribution. They could keep their own bonus material and easily discard the TT exclusive bonus.

What proportion of them even have an international release to fall back on?

I fully expect to see As Good As It Gets as a Sony MOD at some point. They've already done Sleepless In Seattle and The Remains Of The Day, so I think it's just a matter of time.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by jayembee

Quite a number of titles have been offered for sale that have been a long time in release. Currently, the oldest release still in print is Alamo Bay, which had a street date of 2013 09 10 -- 6½ years ago -- so it's fairly clear that they are contractually allowed to keep selling their stock until it's gone.

It occurred to me that when I wrote that, I was only thinking of Blu-rays. But two of the items they're still offering for sale are the two DVDs they released back at the beginning that haven't sold out yet: Violent Saturday and Woman Obsessed. Those streeted in (respectively) April and June 2011. So they've been around nine years and counting.

[belcherman]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

I’m inclined to agree with this, but who knows? They really don’t seem to be in any hurry, at least at the moment. Also, there is always the possibility they could unload excess stock to liquidators or mega-resellers. I admit that it took a big chunk out of my discretionary income to get all the remaining titles I wanted during this sale, but not as much as it would if they go OOP and command OOP prices. Even if there is further price drops in the future, how much will I save in the end and will the titles I want still be around? I’ve messed up before on a few Blus where I thought the price would drop and it never did. Fool me once, I suppose.

I’ve already picked up all the titles that were must-haves for me. There are about a dozen that I might snap up if they hit the sub $10 price point, but if they sell out before that, I won’t lose sleep over it.

[hariseldon]

Originally Posted by BagheeraMcGee

I fully expect to see As Good As It Gets as a Sony MOD at some point. They've already done Sleepless In Seattle and The Remains Of The Day, so I think it's just a matter of time.

Sure -- but Sleepless was sold out and long beyond the exclusive period
Remains of the Day may actually fit since the TT item sold out 4 months after the Re-release was put out (4.5 years after the original TT release).

I'm not really asking about items that sold out long ago which would have no simultaneous TT (Philadelphia, Fright Night, Sleepless, Christine, etc). There are many that are screaming for a release like As Good as It Gets that no studio really seems to be in a hurry to put out.

Even among the group that sold out quickly there just haven't been that much effort to release them again -- the Sinbads, Harryhausens, Verne films, Enemy Mine, Blue Lagoon, Breaking Away, The Egyptian. It took nearly 7 years to see Bye Bye Birdie, Steel Magnolias, Leave Her to Heaven.
Of TT 370 releases, I count only around 20 that have subsequent releases in the US

As best as I can tell there are 80-100 or so items still in print and many well past the exclusive period -- none of them that I'm aware of is even rumored to have a new version in the wind. TT has already paid their studio fee so selling more current copies doesn't net the studio anything, there don't appear to be any legal issues if the studio wanted to release their own Woody Allen series or a Charles Bronson set.

[Professor Echo]

Originally Posted by hariseldon

There are many that are screaming for a release like As Good as It Gets that no studio really seems to be in a hurry to put out.

Even among the group that sold out quickly there just haven't been that much effort to release them again -- Of TT 370 releases, I count only around 20 that have subsequent releases in the US

As best as I can tell there are 80-100 or so items still in print and many well past the exclusive period -- none of them that I'm aware of is even rumored to have a new version in the wind.

I think any expectation that the majority of TT Blus will ever get a future re-release from another label is a pipe dream. It's important to remember that TT was run more as a labor of love than one of a hardcore business intent on maximizing profit. As such, many of the titles they released seemed to be chosen more out of a passion for film as art and entertainment, not necessarily for their commercial potential.

That is the one thing a lot of us will miss about them more than anything else; you never knew what was coming next, but even when it proved a head scratcher to many, it was still great it made it out there anyway. Outside of KINO, I can't really think of any other major Blu producer these days who would ever take such chances. That's why I am so doubtful that the majority of the TT catalog, and many films like the ones they put out, will ever see the light of day again. More's the pity.

[StarDestroyer52]

I concur the mass majority of the TT films probably won't ever see another re-release or least in region A. Maybe a few of the MGM/UA and Sony titles may see a release by Eureka or Indicator, I'm kind of surprised no UK label has touched The Fortune Cookie for one. You would think that many of the Sony titles could be released via there MOD line, I mean I guess A Man for All Seasons saw a re-release. Maybe Arrow could try to port Bring Me The Head of Alfredo Garcia now that the TT version is OOP? I highly doubt that many of the Fox owned films released by TT will ever see a re-release for sure.

[SeanJoyce]

Originally Posted by StarDestroyer52

Maybe Arrow could try to port Bring Me The Head of Alfredo Garcia now that the TT version is OOP?

Arrow has already released that one, with a superior scan/package (I opted for the TT however.)

[StarDestroyer52]

Originally Posted by SeanJoyce

Arrow has already released that one, with a superior scan/package (I opted for the TT however.)

Should've clarified when I meant port, I meant to port their release to Region A.

[hariseldon]

Originally Posted by Professor Echo

I think any expectation that the majority of TT Blus will ever get a future re-release from another label is a pipe dream. It's important to remember that TT was run more as a labor of love than one of a hardcore business intent on maximizing profit. As such, many of the titles they released seemed to be chosen more out of a passion for film as art and entertainment, not necessarily for their commercial potential.

That is the one thing a lot of us will miss about them more than anything else; you never knew what was coming next, but even when it proved a head scratcher to many, it was still great it made it out there anyway. Outside of KINO, I can't really think of any other major Blu producer these days who would ever take such chances. That's why I am so doubtful that the majority of the TT catalog, and many films like the ones they put out, will ever see the light of day again. More's the pity.

You know that I agree with the whole post which is why my TT collection is what it is. 60% of TT would almost certainly be non-starters. OTOH, there are 50-60 items I'd guess that seem to be good to excellent candidates for US releases and another group that could be a decent reach release.

Especially since all the expensive part of the cleanup/encode/transfer is just sitting there for free.

[bdgking]

Originally Posted by tomahawk

I would say that the fact of TT seemingly extending the sale indefinitely means that there are no current plans for further price drops. So, I would definitely get what you want now while it's in stock. (I will be taking my own advice, as I've been holding out up until this point.)

I respectfully have to disagree with this . I feel this sale is showing just how desperate they are . I feel that most of the regular buyers whom buy 1 of this 1 of that etc. have bought most of what they already wanted or could afford at the moment . Those whom are sellers buying quantities are likely going to have their funds depleted by a bit until they can sell from what they bought .

Many people not saying all will have limited funds once they spent our bought a bit . Coupled with the fact of the Virus and many people still not working all will cause a lot less sales this month for Twilight & SAE IMO .

What they should have done IMO if they were wanting to continue with immediate sales they should have ended it at the end of last month and then a week later or so drop the prices on everything and if not do that wait a few weeks to do the price drops .

Me I have almost everything I want that Twilight time has and I refuse to buy from SAE as both sites shipping rates are bad but SAE is horrible beyond belief IMO .

I doubt it but unless Twilight Time has SAE trans ship titles to them then I will no longer buy myself unless the prices are between $4.99 - $9.95 at most because of the shipping rates .

IMO if Twilight Time is going out of Business which we all know they are they would be wise to have a lot of SAE twilight Time movies trans shipped if for no other reason it would help them sell out of many titles faster .

I am confident that I am not the only one whom feels that they would rather buy from Twilight Time because of the shipping rates than buy from SAE whom rates are horrible .

I think the reasoning they gave for jacking up the shipping rates was beyond horrible IMO . Amazon or other companies do not go around saying we have to jack up our rates because a customer received a damaged item etc.
That is another reason they are going out of business simply because they do not accept responsibility for their own packaging or mishandling of the items or their partnered shipping carriers .


I wanted Manhattan Murder Mystery but will likely never buy it as it is gone from Twilight Time so unless SAE ever has it at $9.95 or under I will just miss out . Oh well !

[bdgking]

I also wanted to say that SAE really should update their low quantities especially considering this is a much longer sale . You would think many other titles have gone low quantity by now that were not at the beginning of the original sale 2 months ago or so .
They also should consider not just saying low quantity but say less than 100 as an example . I would bet them anything they would sell a ton more & faster if they actually did that .
211 titles still remaining at SAE on Twilight Times behalf .