Twilight Time Discussion Thread

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by Arkadin

well all that restoration, etc. etc. doesn't just go towards making a blu-ray release. It provides a new hd version of the film to provide for cable, for downloads, for streaming, etc. etc.
so it's an investment to monetize the film for many different platforms.

Very true.

Originally Posted by Arkadin

These major Hollywood studios that spend 100's of millions of dollars all the time on total crap films at the theater could easily spend the money to preserve their film legacies for future generations and release bds if they wanted to. I mean give me a break about all this cost stuff.

Sort of true.

Originally Posted by Arkadin

these studios should promote their legacy films and the blu-ray releases much more and maybe they would make more money. How can anybody say it wouldn't happen since they hardly ever do that in the first place?

Not so true. Even when they go over the top with an SE or UCE, the stuff isn't selling in the volumes they need to make a splash on retail shelves and stay there long enough to sell through before the ruthless discounting and dumping kicks-in.

Originally Posted by Arkadin

Honestly, Fox and Sony haven't really significantly supported older catalog from day 1 of the format. simple as that.

Not so true either, but depending on how you interpret "significantly".

On the SPHE side, what seemed like an early migration carrot and no-brainer hit - that Close Encounters Collector's Box Set featuring all versions of the film with detailed comparison timelines - was almost stillborn even with heavy promotion. 4 1/2 years later, they still haven't cleared those out, even at a third of the original list price. Ditto for the double-disc SE of Oscar winner Gandhi, David Lean's Forster adaptation A Passage to India, the classic western The Professionals, or even freakin' Tommy, all eventually blown out for $10.00 or less among many others. All still available.

As for Fox, they released South Pacific and The Robe, both expensively restored and remastered for high-def, and the lovingly handled The Diary of Anne Frank, plus classy digibooks of All About Eve, An Affair to Remember, and The Hustler, all still widely available everywhere, as well as the double-disc The Longest Day and The Sand Pebbles.

Originally Posted by Arkadin

They have absolutely issued some great releases, but in general the overall output for coming on 6 years has been pretty pathetic imo, and it seems clear they are both basically throwing in the towel at this point.

All true, especially if you go by the total numbers during those 6 years. However, both studios front-loaded whatever catalogue titles they did offer circa 2008-2010. After that, not so much.

So basically I agree that they could have gone deeper with their catalogues, a lot faster Arkadin, but suspect the outcome would have been more or less the same regardless. Not enough folks had Blu-ray players then, and none of those titles (which were all perennial sales successes on DVD), was enough of a carrot to get consumers to migrate en masse.

At the mass market retail level, catalogue titles never got out the gate for either studio.

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by Yami

I think they might have a chance with Nicholas Ray's noir In a Lonely Place which features what many consider to be Bogart's best performance.

Nolo contendre!

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by anthonyls

Maybe this thread should be moved up to the Sticky Threads above... as a permanent TT Discussion thread.

I was just thinking about that after seeing all the board action after this weekend's announcement anthonyls.

It might be a tough sell to the mods at this point though. I'd give it a few months...they'll be liklier to agree once we pass 50, 75, or 100 pages.

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by jaaguir

I pre-ordered Demetrius. No April titles for me. But I'll be getting Journey... and The big heat in May for sure! I may get The wayward bus too, probably.

In many respects, this was the biggest eyebrow archer of all the recent TT announcements. I don't think many movie fans realize how ultra-rare this title truly is. It was almost totally witheld from home video due to a rights issue*, never available *legally* on DVD, or in 'Scope!

Naturally, a crappy TV-capped version of it can be found on YouTube:

http://youtu.be/5F_MR-uUNvw

For many vet movie collectors this is a "holy grail" title, so anybody's guess what will happen when it finally gets a Blu-ray release from high-def mastered vault elements. If any of the core market for this flick are still alive, it should be very interesting what happens on pre-order day...

* According to eNotes: "The film was never officially released on DVD because Steinbeck's widow bought back the rights and refuses to let it be released because Steinbeck didn't like it." [obviously she relented or no longer owns the rights]

[Page14]

Originally Posted by benbess

+2

If you have a Facebook account, you can log right into the Twilight Time page and suggest it to them directly. Nick Redman of TT usually responds with a "like" if he thinks a suggestion might be possible someday...

I did as you suggested ... suggesting "Flight of the Phoenix" along with a couple other personal, somewhat forgotten favorites ... "Wrestling Ernest Hemingway" and "Tender Mercies".

I received a "like" from a Bruce Pullen along with his comment saying "Tender Mercies (1983) is currently owned by Lionsgate. Wrestling Ernest Hemingway (1993) is released by Warners. Flight of the Phoenix (1965) is a Fox title. TT (at this time) only does 20th Century Fox or Sony/Columbia titles. Since they have a working relationship with both. So Phoenix is possible, the rest we'll have to wait and see. Sorry I couldn't help more."

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by Page14

I did as you suggested ... suggesting "Flight of the Phoenix" along with a couple other personal, somewhat forgotten favorites ... "Wrestling Ernest Hemmingway" and "Tender Mercies".

I received a "like" from a Bruce Pullen along with his comment saying "Tender Mercies (1983) is currently owned by Lionsgate. Wrestling Ernest Hemingway (1993) is released by Warners. Flight of the Phoenix (1965) is a Fox title. TT (at this time) only does 20th Century Fox or Sony/Columbia titles. Since they have a working relationship with both. So Phoenix is possible, the rest we'll have to wait and see. Sorry I couldn't help more.

That's good to know. Let's hope they don't start a partnership with Warner or Disney.

[BluBonnet]

Originally Posted by Page14

I did as you suggested ... suggesting "Flight of the Phoenix" along with a couple other personal, somewhat forgotten favorites ... "Wrestling Ernest Hemmingway" and "Tender Mercies".

"Tender Mercies" was released on DVD by Lionsgate; "Wrestling Ernest Hemingway" is currently available from the Warner Archive as a made-on-demand DVD.

My guess is the only likelihood of those movies coming out on BD would be if their respective studios released them... maybe WHV will some day start releasing on-demand blu-rays?

Originally Posted by HD Goofnut

That's good to know. Let's hope they don't start a partnership with Warner or Disney.

WB and Disney already have their own made-on-demand offerings for many obscure catalog titles. They have only released DVD-Rs so far, but as I said before, maybe some day they will do the same thing with BDs.

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by Yankees0222

They should have numbered their releases like criterion. That's definitely the easiest and most effecient way to get most of your titles to sell out eventually.

No doubt they considered that approach, but I bet they rejected it because they didn't want to appear copy-cat or pretentious. Besides, just looking at these recent announcements, they couldn't be offering a more eclectic bunch of movies...not a chance all of these titles will appeal to the same buyers.

In his HTF interview, Redman admitted TT's output would be a reel "mix-up" and "mash-up", and their May/June sked proves it.

[CinemaScope]

The thing about Fox is that they were so good in the DVD years, just so many great releases, so them virtually given up the ghost looks extra bad now. So glad they released The Comancheros a while back, as it would be a T.T. release now, & I suppose the same with The Robe (but at least it would have been multi-region!). I only buy Blu-rays of films that are special to me (not particually great movies, mostly films I grew up with in the 60's). This year I've only bought three movies, Cleopatra, The Comancheros & It's A Mad Mad Mad Mad World (plus The Pacific miniseries), & have nothing planned 'till Journey To The Centre Of The Earth, so the price is not the issue it would be if I was buying a couple of Blu's a week.

[Yami]

TT's Julie Kirgo discusses writing, commentary tracks and Blu-Ray

[HD Goofnut]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

WB and Disney already have their own made-on-demand offerings for many obscure catalog titles. They have only released DVD-Rs so far, but as I said before, maybe some day they will do the same thing with BDs.

Then home video would again become a rich man's Laserdisc format at least for the HD world. That would be beyond awful.

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by CinemaScope

The thing about Fox is that they were so good in the DVD years, just so many great releases, so them virtually given up the ghost looks extra bad now. So glad they released The Comancheros a while back, as it would be a T.T. release now, & I suppose the same with The Robe (but at least it would have been multi-region!). I only buy Blu-rays of films that are special to me (not particually great movies, mostly films I grew up with in the 60's). This year I've only bought three movies, Cleopatra, The Comancheros & It's A Mad Mad Mad Mad World (plus The Pacific miniseries), & have nothing planned 'till Journey To The Centre Of The Earth, so the price is not the issue it would be if I was buying a couple of Blu's a week.

My take too CinemaScope, although lately, I've been buying a lot KINO, Olive, and Criterion, as well as Twilight Time. But at least we're finally starting to see some of this stuff get done well and get out there.

I swear if I see another cheap, lazy WB or MGM port from existing DVD or HD-DVD masters I'm going to hurl some furniture. The only major studios left who continue to support this failed mass market model for catalogue Blu-ray, are the very same ones who routinely release the lowest quality product.

[NoirFan]

Originally Posted by Yami

Some stuff that I'd like TT to get (or Criterion, doesn't bother me):

In a Lonely Place

From TT's FB:

One of our faves, and of course we requested it, but were turned down. It's quite possibly been licensed to another label...

Hopefully Criterion - I'd rather pay $20 (during B & N's sale) for a superb transfer and an extensive array of extras than $35 (plus shipping!) for a superb transfer with zero extras.

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by NoirFan

Hopefully Criterion - I'd rather pay $20 (during B & N's sale) for a superb transfer [of In a Lonely Place] and an extensive array of extras than $35 (plus shipping!) for a superb transfer with zero extras.

Wouldn't we all NoirFan? But some legacy titles won't be so lucky, which is what we're talking about here vis-à-vis Twilight Time's output.

Actually, I think this turn toward licensing by SPHE is great news for Criterion fans who want to see more classic American movies in the collection. In the past, Criterion was totally shut-out or lost the rights to many domestic titles that the majors wanted to reserve for their home DVD labels. Now, you won't see quite as much of that studio 'hoarding'. I think it's very likely that many Columbia Classics will go to Criterion that previously wouldn't have had a chance, such as The Lady From Shanghai, It Happened One Night, and Lost Horizon, or Huston's Fat City, Edwards' Experiment in Terror, or Penn and Brando's The Chase...heck, maybe even a Bogart Box set containing the aforementioned In a Lonely Place, The Harder They Fall, and Sahara, etc. None of these should be considered off limits now.

For many of these titles, the limited TT model would mean runs too low, but under Criterion they would land smack in the 'sweet spot' of being just big enough and well-known enough to be worth premium treatment...especially with Grover Crisp transfers to anchor them.

So there is an 'upside' to all this...especially for collectors.

[BluBonnet]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

Wouldn't we all NoirFan? But some legacy titles won't be so lucky, which is what we're talking about here vis-à-vis Twilight Time's output.

Actually, I think this turn toward licensing by SPHE is great news for Criterion fans who want to see more classic American movies in the collection. In the past, Criterion was totally shut-out or lost the rights to many titles that the majors preferred to release via their home DVD labels. Now, you won't see quite as much of that studio 'hoarding'. I think it's very likely that many Columbia Classics will go to Criterion that otherwise wouldn't have previously had a chance, such as The Lady From Shanghai, It Happened One Night, and Lost Horizon, or Huston's Fat City, Edwards' Experiment in Terror, or Penn and Brando's The Chase...heck, maybe even a Bogart Box set containing the aforementioned In a Lonely Place, The Harder They Fall, and Sahara, etc.

For many of these titles, the limited TT model would means runs too low, but under Criterion they would land right in the 'sweet spot' of being just big enough and well-known enough to be worth premium treatment...especially with Grover Crisp transfers to anchor them.

So there is an 'upside' to all this...especially for collectors.

Well, I agree with the potential upside... and in the end any title that Criterion doesn't take, I'm sure TT or someone else might.

BTW, Sony did release a Bogart set with "The Harder They Fall" and some of the other titles that had not been on DVD before, and is selling it as a tcm.com exclusive ("TCM Vault"). I'm not sure if Sony's deal with TCM would preclude the possibility of a blu-ray release via another distributor. Hopefully not!

[JoeDeM]

Originally Posted by NoirFan

Hopefully Criterion - I'd rather pay $20 (during B & N's sale) for a superb transfer and an extensive array of extras than $35 (plus shipping!) for a superb transfer with zero extras.

You had me at superb transfer, I'd take it either way, I don't watch extra's.

[Blu-Velvet]

It is great that Twilight Time is getting such a wide selection of Sony catalog titles in addition to the off-beat Fox titles. Of course I'd love to see the major Columbia classics on Blu-ray (the Capras, the 50s Oscar-winners) but like others would prefer a Criterion edition when possible if Sony doesn't do it themselves like they did with THE CAINE MUTINY and all-too-few others.

The deep-catalog but less than 50-year-old Columbia titles I'd like most to see from Twilight Time include FIRST MEN IN THE MOON (already mentioned by others), NICKELODEON (in both the color & BW versions), and my guilty favorite MACKENNA'S GOLD. A great obscure early Columbia B from the 1930s would be BLACK MOON, which I've seen in a gorgeous 35mm print. As facebook is virtually impossible for me with dialup internet, I hope someone else has suggested these titles to them.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

Wouldn't we all NoirFan? But some legacy titles won't be so lucky, which is what we're talking about here vis-à-vis Twilight Time's output.

Actually, I think this turn toward licensing by SPHE is great news for Criterion fans who want to see more classic American movies in the collection. In the past, Criterion was totally shut-out or lost the rights to many domestic titles that the majors wanted to reserve for their home DVD labels. Now, you won't see quite as much of that studio 'hoarding'. I think it's very likely that many Columbia Classics will go to Criterion that previously wouldn't have had a chance, such as The Lady From Shanghai, It Happened One Night, and Lost Horizon, or Huston's Fat City, Edwards' Experiment in Terror, or Penn and Brando's The Chase...heck, maybe even a Bogart Box set containing the aforementioned In a Lonely Place, The Harder They Fall, and Sahara, etc. None of these should be considered off limits now.

For many of these titles, the limited TT model would means runs too low, but under Criterion they would land smack in the 'sweet spot' of being just big enough and well-known enough to be worth premium treatment...especially with Grover Crisp transfers to anchor them.

So there is an 'upside' to all this...especially for collectors.

If Twillight Time want to release Capra's movies on Blu-ray they will have a client for life in me

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

If Twillight Time want to release Capra's movies on Blu-ray they will have a client for life in me

Seems not only possible, but likely, that those are all on the table now P@t.

[kemcha]

I agree that Twilight Time probably is limited but when they come across a movie that sells out like Fright Night, I don't see why they won't just press more copies of that movie. Fright Night, the original classic, has such a cult following that I think they underestimated the demand and that they should press more copies of that film.

I agree that not every movie should exceed 3000 copies but when such demand is so high, I think they should press more copies of it to satisfy demand.