Twilight Time Discussion Thread

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by Dex Robinson

I wish there was a forum or thread where we could discuss the practices of the licensors without sounding critical of the licensees.

I've got many Twilight Time releases and Nick Redman in particular has been very kind to me. It makes perfect sense that Twilight Time should avail themselves of the better titles that are made available to them.

The trouble is, if we raise questions about the titles that the licensor decides to release through Twilight Time, we get called complaining cheapskates.

Oh come on Dex, how many of the regulars on this board really do that, except perhaps via genteel teasing?

I suspect it's as simple as TT having a very good "give-and-take" relationship with both of these studios...more so now than ever after their stellar sophmore year. So TT probably asks for lots of titles and gets shot down cold...and then asks for others and gets a thumbs-up, no doubt to their own surprise and delight, as in "WTF? Damn right we'll run with that 4k remastered beauty, thank you very much sir!"

Fox in particular knows who they're dealing with by now, not only as a trusted home video licensee, but also because of this team's archival history with Fox soundtrack assets. Whether most Blu-ray.com shoppers care about ISTs is beside the point; Fox certainly understands where TT is coming from with their isolated soundtrack showcases. Enough of their staff are likely big ole movie fans and collectors themselves, so it's not hard for me to imagine a Fox asset manager saying, "Sure, we *could* release The Song of Bernadette ourselves, but TT will provide a much better collector showcase for Alfred Newman's award-winning score." Just as conceivable is some good old fashioned "horsetrading" taking place, with TT cajoling and bartering to get the titles they most passionately want to do. Could that be why we saw Nick Redman all over the special features of Fox' recent release of Von Ryan Express? Or why TT and Fox are now co-partnering on the resurrection of At Long Last Love? Is there some kind of behind-the-scenes 'you-win-I win-we-win' trade-off going on?

At the end of the day, it's really none of our business why these Fox/TT titles land where they do, when they do, or how they do. Although it's fun to speculate, ultimately, I'm just glad that more of these vintage and near vintage gems are being exhumed from the Fox vault and reaching the market with such fine quality.

Originally Posted by Dex Robinson

Frankly, I'm absolutely mystified as to why the studios choose to release some obscure, or low quality movies themselves but license better titles to Twilight Time. Does Fox believe that WILD RIVER is more commercially viable than JOURNEY TO THE CENTER OF THE EARTH? The know-it-alls freely tell us (and have been telling us for years) that the Twilight Time releases exist because catalogue doesn't sell. But the studios themselves continue to release catalogue titles that have even less commercial viability.

Well, I think Journey is a special case because it's such a generational 'touchstone'. But in any case, that was a year ago. Fox might not cut that same deal today...or maybe they still would, you just never know...

[JHas]

Originally Posted by Arkadin

btw: I just got 9 emails from SAE telling me the same thing--my copy of Nicholas and Alexandra has shipped!

.

Just got one email, but it said the same thing. Pumped to get this one hopefully prior to the release date!

[ROclockCK]

Speaking of "pumped", did SAE hire Lance Armstrong to configure their e-mail server? That sucker is on something!

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by deltasun

That's exactly why they may not release those region free - so that they don't interfere with TT's exclusivity to those titles.

How would Sony be interfering with TT's exclusivity? Couldn't what TT is doing be considered the same. From my recollection, Mr. Redman has stated that TT only has an exclusivity in the US (or maybe it's the whole NA region) yet they release their titles as region free and ship worldwide. So why couldn't another company, namely Sony, release their's as region free.

I've long wonder why TT didn't have to region lock their titles considering they're a small label and don't have worldwide exclusivity. Yet just about every other third-party label has mentioned that they're contractually obligated to region lock their titles for the simply fact that they themselves don't have worldwide exclusivity. So why is TT any different? I've brought this up before but no one seems to have an answer or if they do they're not speaking.

Maybe it has to do with their limited run of 3000 copies. However, if Sony region locked their release or required another third-party label to do the same, while letting TT slide, it would be a punch in the gut to those NA folks. What I mean is that TT has basically locked the US/NA area out of future releases for at least 3 years and limited the release to 3000 copies. Yet their releases are region free and they ship internationally. If Sony region locks their titles it's like saying we locked NA into a limited release, further limiting that release by (3000 - X) copies which shipped overseas, and yet now those countries get a release of their own.

Obviously, this only affects those in NA for titles which have already sold out.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad people are able to get these films regardless of were they reside. I also didn't expect Sony to release these themselves overseas. Another third-party label sure but never thought Sony would do it.

Originally Posted by DetroitSportsFan

Why wouldn't Sony want to release their best selling TT releases first?

I see no reason why they wouldn't but was just surprised that they started off with these two titles which have yet to sell out at TT rather than the two that did; actually one, which is FN, as it wouldn't surprise me if they delayed NOTLD considering the blue tint controversy.

It now makes me wonder if TT's sales have some how spurred Sony into releasing some of their catalog titles. Obviously they can't release these in the US until the 3 years are up but what does this mean for future catalog titles? Is Sony considering getting back into the game with catalog titles? Id so how could this affect TT? Those are questions I would love to have answers to because I would love to see Sony bring even more titles to the table.

[Erhen]

I also received several emails from Screen Archives.

[ROclockCK]

...how little discussion there's been about Pony Soldier. I mean, Tyrone Power in the lead. Another Alex North score. Filmed in vintage 3-strip Technicolor:



I've never seen this picture, but am actually looking forward to it more than the rest of the new releases. Anyone else order it?

[Blu-Velvet]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

...how little discussion there's been about Pony Soldier. I mean, Tyrone Power in the lead. Another Alex North score. Filmed in vintage 3-strip Technicolor:

[Show spoiler]

I've never seen this picture, but am actually looking forward to it more than the rest of the new releases. Anyone else order it?

Well, I ordered it, along with NICHOLAS & ALEXANDRA, EXPERIMENT IN TERROR, and the two "Flint" films. Haven't gotten any shipping notice yet, but I'll be looking forward to seeing both it and NICHOLAS & ALEXANDRA for the first time.

[benbess]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

...how little discussion there's been about Pony Soldier. I mean, Tyrone Power in the lead. Another Alex North score. Filmed in vintage 3-strip Technicolor:



I've never seen this picture, but am actually looking forward to it more than the rest of the new releases. Anyone else order it?

ROclockCK: You may have missed it, but it's been talked about over at the Home Theater Forums for years, and confirmed by RAH: Fox threw out most of their 3 strip negatives in the 1970s. They "duped" them, and so they aren't lost, but the stunning results found with 3-strip from WB and others are not likely to be found for Fox titles. A few 3-strip negatives escaped this fate at Fox, but not many. Can they still get impressive results from what survives? Perhaps....

[Abdrewes]

Originally Posted by octagon

Absolutely. I would be surprised and disappointed if something like The Lady From Shanghai went to TT instead of somebody like Criterion but I would certainly have no quarrel with TT for taking it.

They'd have to be crazy not to.

I'd buy regardless who releases it.

So is $35 the cheapest for TT (32+3 on Amazon) or am I looking in the wrong places?

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by benbess

ROclockCK: You may have missed it, but it's been talked about over at the Home Theater Forums for years, and confirmed by RAH: Fox threw out most of their 3 strip negatives in the 1970s. They "duped" them, and so they aren't lost, but the stunning results found with 3-strip from WB and others are not likely to be found for Fox titles. A few 3-strip negatives escaped this fate at Fox, but not many. Can they still get impressive results from what survives? Perhaps....

But I thought I read somewhere - here I think - that the original Technicolor separations for movies like Singin' in the Rain (MGM) and Cover Girl (Columbia) are also gone too, and yet both studios still had good enough protection to do a credible video transfer for Blu-ray. And just recently, somebody posted a YouTube video right here in this thread celebrating the recent restoration of Leave Her to Heaven, which was a Fox Technicolor title. I have a hard time believing nothing workable remains from the Fox Technicolor library - with many of their CinemaScope/DeLuxe titles, yes - but not Technicolor because the separations were on black and white stock.

Obviously, I'm missing something here, so can you point me toward those discussions on the other forum benbess? If a direct link is against Blu-ray.com rules, then just the topic title(s)? I haven't been registered with the HTF very long so I'm still discovering the nooks and crannies of their site.

[benbess]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

But I thought I read somewhere - here I think - that the original Technicolor separations for movies like Singin' in the Rain (MGM) and Cover Girl (Columbia) are also gone too, and yet both studios still had good enough protection to do a credible video transfer for Blu-ray. And just recently, somebody posted a YouTube video right here in this thread celebrating the recent restoration of Leave Her to Heaven, which was a Fox Technicolor title. I have a hard time believing nothing workable remains from the Fox Technicolor library - with many of their CinemaScope/DeLuxe titles, yes - but not Technicolor because the separations were on black and white stock.

Obviously, I'm missing something here, so can you point me toward those discussions on the other forum benbess? If a direct link is against Blu-ray.com rules, then just the topic title(s)? I haven't been registered with the HTF very long so I'm still discovering the nooks and crannies of their site.

I don't have any specific links, but RAH's review of Cover Girl was quite low when it comes to PQ, and he guessed that the original 3-strip was missing. Cover Girl also got mediocre rankings for PQ here:

" ...This Technicolor musical evidently was not archivally preserved well and neither a decent negative nor an IP was available for this transfer. What we have, therefore, is a presentation with severe density issues and color fluctuations that vary almost from instant to instant. At times colors are quite vivid, even if they don't have that traditional Technicolor "pop", but then they fade and variously skew toward either the yellow, brown or magenta side of things (the fact that there's such a disparity is indicative of some of the issues here). This transfer is also incredibly grainy...."

Singin' in the Rain is an interesting case, and one that I can't quite figure out. Apparently the 3-strip didn't survive for that title, but somehow with a lot of work WB got it into very nice shape. To me it does not have quite the PQ of An American in Paris, which is a title where the 3-strip does survive. To me that's the difference right there, for An American in Paris is stunning, imho, while Singin' is just very good.

But, if Fox can get Singin' level quality out of their surviving elements, I'm all for it! RAH has said he has doubts about that, but with advancing technology who knows? I still have hope for Leave Her to Heaven, but will wait for the reviews before I buy.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Looks like The Blue Lagoon, and As Good as it Gets are being released by Sony in Germany:

http://www.bluray-disc.de/blu-ray-ne...-im-april-2013

credit to IndyMLVC for mentioning it in the AGAIG thread

Pre-orders are up for both:

The Blue Lagoon Blu-ray PRE-ORDER
As Good as It Gets Blu-ray PRE-ORDER

We don't know the region coding yet, but they do work out cheaper than the TT titles. Blue Lagoon comes to $23US shipped. AGAIG comes to $24.50US shipped. If both are bought together it'd be $43 shipped.

[SymbioticFunction]

Love The Driver, been waiting a long time for a bd version - I'll be very upset if I don't get one of the 3000 copies.

[MifuneFan]

Originally Posted by SymbioticFunction

Love The Driver, been waiting a long time for a bd version - I'll be very upset if I don't get one of the 3000 copies.

As long as you place your order within the next year (or two) you're pretty much guaranteed to get a copy. I doubt demand will be all that high for it.

[Lemmy Lugosi]

Originally Posted by MifuneFan

Pre-orders are up for both:

The Blue Lagoon Blu-ray PRE-ORDER
As Good as It Gets Blu-ray PRE-ORDER

We don't know the region coding yet, but they do work out cheaper than the TT titles. Blue Lagoon comes to $23US shipped. AGAIG comes to $24.50US shipped. If both are bought together it'd be $43 shipped.

Good news.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by Dex Robinson

I wish there was a forum or thread where we could discuss the practices of the licensors without sounding critical of the licensees.

I've got many Twilight Time releases and Nick Redman in particular has been very kind to me. It makes perfect sense that Twilight Time should avail themselves of the better titles that are made available to them.

The trouble is, if we raise questions about the titles that the licensor decides to release through Twilight Time, we get called complaining cheapskates.

Frankly, I'm absolutely mystified as to why the studios choose to release some obscure, or low quality movies themselves but license better titles to Twilight Time. Does Fox believe that WILD RIVER is more commercially viable than JOURNEY TO THE CENTER OF THE EARTH? The know-it-alls freely tell us (and have been telling us for years) that the Twilight Time releases exist because catalogue doesn't sell. But the studios themselves continue to release catalogue titles that have even less commercial viability.

I don't think it's a question of calling others cheap but more a question that many of us find it extremely funny that these so call "questions of release and rights" only come up when something popular come's out. All of a sudden the none regulars are all up in arms in outrage at Twillight release policies and so on. Where is the outrage when it's not Philadelphia or As Good As It Get?

[Seymour]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

Where is the outrage when it's not Philadelphia or As Good As It Get?

Because literally no one is surprised when The Rains of Ranchipur or The Wayward Bus get limited edition releases.

[MifuneFan]

None of this is TT's fault anyway. It's Sony and Fox that people should be directing their anger and confusion towards. It's they who believe that it's not financially viable to release titles like FN, AGAIG, Philadelphia, and Christine themselves. All TT is doing is saying "sure we'll release that". The price they're charging is likely a reflection of whatever Sony/Fox is charging them for the 3,000 units, and the overall cost of handling such an operation.

Similarly, I don't blame anyone for being shocked at Sony for giving TT these titles. I think anyone who accepts that they simply wouldn't sell well if released widely is in essence saying that Sony knows perfectly well how to handle their catalog, and I just have to disagree with that. I think they've shown how poorly they've done with their catalog. Perhaps it's due to their own financial issues as a company, but people should be surprised that Philadelphia and AGAIG didn't get wide releases, and I can't blame them for being upset at essentially deciding between paying premium for a BD they feel they shouldn't have to, and not owning it at all.

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Seymour

Because literally no one is surprised when The Rains of Ranchipur or The Wayward Bus get limited edition releases.

Heh, yeah, it's hard to imagine anybody being surprised by a limited release of The Egyptian let alone shaking their fists at the heavens.

[Blu-Velvet]

Originally Posted by Seymour

Because literally no one is surprised when The Rains of Ranchipur or The Wayward Bus get limited edition releases.

They're more likely to be surprised that RAINS OF RANCHIPUR and THE WAYWARD BUS got any Blu-ray release at all, much less a limited edition release. And that's what seems to shock certain people that the same company could release a movie they've not only heard of, but actually have already seen and liked!