Twilight Time Discussion Thread

[Banned User]

I've never seen this discussion of the pro's and cons of Twilight's tactics as people simply ranting. I see this business model as a potential game changer for the format in general. While I can only speak for myself if it gets to the point this is the norm for releases I'm very likely to give up collecting Blurays and just stream.

The fact is studios are already having to pay to larger cost of creating digital HD masters of their content for TV, streaming services. Stamping a Bluray isn't that much more expensive then DVD's were and mass production and low wages due to free trade lowers those costs to a few dollars at most. About the same price as DVD's cost when that format first started.

Right now though the target audience is split between two formats DVD/Blu and streaming. So making a ton of profit off a cheap blu release is difficult if there is not a large audience. I see no reason a typical Bluray shouldn't be sold at around 14.99-20.00. I agree however that they have devalued Blurays so much in a effort to get people to switch that now people expect it and wait for it. Unfortunately DVD's are not going to go away as fast as VHS because a lot of people don't see that huge leap in technology as they did between those formats.

Everyone has their own opinions. Personally I've never seen what Twilight is doing as that great a thing: To get over priced barebones releases on the assumption the movies would have never got a more mainstream release with more features at a lower price.
You could make that argument on a few of the titles, but for Fright Night and probably As Good as it Gets I'd argue otherwise.

[BluBonnet]

Originally Posted by Banned User

I've never seen this discussion of the pro's and cons of Twilight's tactics as people simply ranting. I see this business model as a potential game changer for the format in general. While I can only speak for myself if it gets to the point this is the norm for releases I'm very likely to give up collecting Blurays and just stream.

The fact is studios are already having to pay to larger cost of creating digital HD masters of their content for TV, streaming services. Stamping a Bluray isn't that much more expensive then DVD's were and mass production and low wages due to free trade lowers those costs to a few dollars at most. About the same price as DVD's cost when that format first started.

Right now though the target audience is split between two formats DVD/Blu and streaming. So making a ton of profit off a cheap blu release is difficult if there is not a large audience. I see no reason a typical Bluray shouldn't be sold
at around 14.99-20.00. I agree however that they have devalued Blurays so much in a effort to get people to switch that now people expect it and wait for it. Unfortunately DVD's are not going to go away as fast as VHS because a lot of people don't see that huge leap in technology as they did between those
formats.

Everyone has their own opinions. Personally I've never seen what Twilight is doing as that great a thing: To get over priced barebones releases on the
assumption the movies would have never got a more mainstream release with
more features at a lower price.

You could make that argument on a few of the titles, but for Fright Night and probably As Good as it Gets I'd argue otherwise.

It's more than an "assumption", imho. The studios wouldn't license any of those titles if they hadn't pretty much given up on them for the time being.

So for serious collectors, what TT is doing is really a great thing, and personally I don't consider their movies to be "overpriced", given that rare catalog titles are now becoming a niche item, just like laserdiscs were back in the day, when the average viewer was happy to just watch stuff on VHS.

Streaming is the new VHS - likely to be accepted by the masses because of the convenience, and because they don't care too much about PQ and great audio.

[JoeDeM]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

So for serious collectors, what TT is doing is really a great thing, and personally I don't consider their movies to be "overpriced", given that rare catalog titles are now becoming a niche item, just like laserdiscs were back in the day, when the average viewer was happy to just watch stuff on VHS.

Streaming is the new VHS - likely to be accepted by the masses because of the convenience, and because they don't care too much about PQ and great audio.

I agree, So far they have been releasing some of my most watched & loved movies, would I rather pay less sure, but some of their releases are must haves for me, and I've been waiting for them to get released. Back in the Laser disc days I was more selective of what I bought, but there was always the must haves that I would save up to buy, and I don't remember people complaining about the price, it was what it was. Personally I won't be picking up AGAIG, because it's not that important to me I have the DVD from when it was originally released back in 2003 and only watched it once since buying it.

[BluBonnet]

Originally Posted by JoeDeM

I agree, So far they have been releasing some of my most watched & loved movies, would I rather pay less sure, but some of their releases are must haves for me, and I've been waiting for them to get released. Back in the Laser disc days I was more selective of what I bought, but there was always the must haves that I would save up to buy, and I don't remember people complaining about the price, it was what it was. Personally I won't be picking up AGAIG, because it's not that important to me I have the DVD from when it was originally released back in 2003 and only watched it once since buying it.

Well, in all honesty, some people did complain, at the time, about the disparity in the prices between different studios. I mean, the Fox widescreen LDs were in the $70 range, while studios like WHV and MGM would usually release most of their movies, catalog included, for $35-$40. The Criterion titles always were a bit more expensive, but it was well justified because they were doing their own transfers, IIRC, and tried to include every extra feature they could think of.

This is why I think that if blu-rays of catalog titles increasingly become a niche item, we'll be lucky to get prices in the $30-$35 range for a title that has a solid transfer, albeit no bonus features except perhaps an isolated soundtrack.

[benbess]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

I doubt it would change much, some people on the Internet don't want "to get it", they just want to rant and rant and pass all their daily life frustrations on here. This release style from TT is just the newest set of target for them.

I think you're probably right. But it might save us time. Rather than having the choice of ignoring yet another post saying "Why 3000?!????" and writing yet another answer, we could just say something like, "Go to post 1. The links there should answer your question."

[JoeDeM]

Originally Posted by BluBonnet

Well, in all honesty, some people did complain, at the time, about the disparity in the prices between different studios. I mean, the Fox widescreen LDs were in the $70 range, while studios like WHV and MGM would usually release most of their movies, catalog included, for $35-$40. The Criterion titles always were a bit more expensive, but it was well justified because they were doing their own transfers, IIRC, and tried to include every extra feature they could think of.

This is why I think that if blu-rays of catalog titles increasingly become a niche item, we'll be lucky to get prices in the $30-$35 range for a title that has a solid transfer, albeit no bonus features except perhaps an isolated soundtrack.

You could be right, at the time I was the only one I knew who collected Laser Discs, and they were always more expensive here in Canada than in the States, and very few places carried them. Extras generally are over rated, and I never watch them.

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by Banned User

I've never seen this discussion of the pro's and cons of Twilight's tactics as people simply ranting. I see this business model as a potential game changer for the format in general. While I can only speak for myself if it gets to the point this is the norm for releases I'm very likely to give up collecting Blurays and just stream.

The fact is studios are already having to pay to larger cost of creating digital HD masters of their content for TV, streaming services. Stamping a Bluray isn't that much more expensive then DVD's were and mass production and low wages due to free trade lowers those costs to a few dollars at most. About the same price as DVD's cost when that format first started.

Right now though the target audience is split between two formats DVD/Blu and streaming. So making a ton of profit off a cheap blu release is difficult if there is not a large audience. I see no reason a typical Bluray shouldn't be sold at around 14.99-20.00. I agree however that they have devalued Blurays so much in a effort to get people to switch that now people expect it and wait for it. Unfortunately DVD's are not going to go away as fast as VHS because a lot of people don't see that huge leap in technology as they did between those formats.

Everyone has their own opinions. Personally I've never seen what Twilight is doing as that great a thing: To get over priced barebones releases on the assumption the movies would have never got a more mainstream release with more features at a lower price.
You could make that argument on a few of the titles, but for Fright Night and probably As Good as it Gets I'd argue otherwise.

Nor did I see those as rants although I do see people ranting how they think others ranted on in this thread. Some of the "pro-TT", if you will, believe all those that don't praise TT simply want cheap titles and are just complaining; how could there be any other options. That's not necessarily the case. Some individuals do want cheap titles while others just want people to have access to those titles without a small limited quantity regardless if TT charges $30.

It's unfortunate their are many people who do expect all blu-rays to be reduced to bargain bin prices. This mentality definitely doesn't help studios to release more titles. I just read another post last night where a new title was announced for $19.95 and within a few posts some mentioned that they were going to wait until it was under $10. I enjoy saving money but I don't hesitate to preorder or pick up a movie on release day.

I'm glad to see titles are being released by TT that might not have been released by the parent studio. I just wish people would have access to those movies without potentially missing out. Isn't that what enjoying movies and blu-rays is all about?

In one of the interviews Nick Redman mentioned that some of their limited CDs, back in the day, sold out within minutes and people missed out even if they tried to get in on the deal right as it was offered. I'd hate for it to eventually get to that point with blu-rays. TT is really targeting a collectors market rather than market with customers that are truely movie buffs.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by benbess

I think you're probably right. But it might save us time. Rather than having the choice of ignoring yet another post saying "Why 3000?!????" and writing yet another answer, we could just say something like, "Go to post 1. The links there should answer your question."

Could not hurt yes you are right for that.

[Banned User]

Originally Posted by rdodolak

.......

It's unfortunate their are many people who do expect all blu-rays to be reduced to bargain bin prices. This mentality definitely doesn't help studios to release more titles. I just read another post last night where a new title was announced for $19.95 and within a few posts some mentioned that they were going to wait until it was under $10. I enjoy saving money but I don't hesitate to preorder or pick up a movie on release day.

All very good points. I'm amazed movies are being released at such low prices ( for instance the upcoming To Catch a Thief $12.99). I'm not sure what they use to gauge the pricing of a title on release and whether or not preorders, or the lack thereof, have anything to do with it. I do not hesitate to purchase a lot of titles on day one. Especially for labels I want to support or just favorite movies. Although there are a lot of titles, mostly those I already have on DVD, that I wait till they hit the bargain bin.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by rdodolak

Nor did I see those as rants although I do see people ranting how they think others ranted on in this thread. Some of the "pro-TT", if you will, believe all those that don't praise TT simply want cheap titles and are just complaining; how could there be any other options. That's not necessarily the case. Some individuals do want cheap titles while others just want people to have access to those titles without a small limited quantity regardless if TT charges $30.

It's unfortunate their are many people who do expect all blu-rays to be reduced to bargain bin prices. This mentality definitely doesn't help studios to release more titles. I just read another post last night where a new title was announced for $19.95 and within a few posts some mentioned that they were going to wait until it was under $10. I enjoy saving money but I don't hesitate to preorder or pick up a movie on release day.

I'm glad to see titles are being released by TT that might not have been released by the parent studio. I just wish people would have access to those movies without potentially missing out. Isn't that what enjoying movies and blu-rays is all about?

In one of the interviews Nick Redman mentioned that some of their limited CDs, back in the day, sold out within minutes and people missed out even if they tried to get in on the deal right as it was offered. I'd hate for it to eventually get to that point with blu-rays. TT is really targeting a collectors market rather than market with customers that are truely movie buffs.

While I do understand that the limited release is a concern in the sense that yes someone people will just never hear about these releases. One example being my very good friend. He is not a Internet person and he would never hear of these releases if it wasn't for me. There is no doubt that there are a lot of people like him and it's sad. However let's not kid ourselves that the majority of the people mad at this new market releases for movie do so because they feel sad a lot of people will never hear about them Most people are mad because of the prices and anyone saying different is trying to sell you something.

The sad reality is (and this is a off topic I know and a lot of people whill disagre but does not matter, it does not change my point) this site is a lot more a "collector" site than 'movie site". I am not saying most people dislike movies but the for a lot of them it's more about the "collector" side of things then the movies. The obession over slipcovers, steelbooks, always talking about prices. Example, the Indy set as been put on pre-order on Amazon for $74. Already 60%-70% of the talk is how it's too expensive and it need to come down. Never mind that for the last five years each and everyone of them kept crying to Lucas and Spielberg "where in Indiana Jones?"

The talk here about TT is driven mostly by the price pure and simple. Those that accept it, like me are happy because we would rather what these classics at $30 or $35 then not having them at all. At the end of the day if you feel it's too expensive do not buy the movie. In fact I hope to continue supporting TT and Criterion, Eureka, Kino, MoC...they provide greet products for the prices they ask for, products I want while everyone else is busy chassing down the lastest Hollywood CGI festival in 3D with steelbook and slipcovers for $15

[benbess]

Originally Posted by rdodolak

...TT is really targeting a collectors market rather than market with customers that are truely movie buffs.

The people who run TT are movie buffs, and they are targeting movie buffs. That group may overlap with a smaller group that are collectors/speculators. The people here on this site are movie buffs, I think, who want to talk about the movies. When you're done talking about TT's business model, hope you'll chime in with some movie buff stuff...

[Dex Robinson]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

Most people are mad because of the prices and anyone saying different is trying to sell you something.

That's a lie.

[P@t_Mtl]

Originally Posted by benbess

The people who run TT are movie buffs, and they are targeting movie buffs. That group may overlap with a smaller group that are collectors/speculators. The people here on this site are movie buffs, I think, who want to talk about the movies. When you're done talking about TT's business model, hope you'll chime in with some movie buff stuff...

I keep wondering if he was talking about the same movie buff on the rest of the site who only talk about prices, bargains, slipcovers, steelbooks, digibook, collector sets.....

[Banned User]

A lot of people have no issues paying the higher price point for Criterion, MoC films because of their value.

I still think Rapture is their best release so far for me. Although The Big Heat will take top spot when released.

[benbess]

Let's talk about your ratings so far of the TT titles that you have. I suggest they be rated two ways--as movies, and for PQ. And please add a few sentences if you feel like it about the release.

I'll start.

I own 3 TT titles: The Egyptian, Picnic, and Mysterious Island. Amazingly enough all were blind buys for me. That's sometimes how I justify the $30 and up price is that these are films I haven't even seen before, and seeing them on blu-ray for the first time is almost like being in the theater on opening night back in the day.

OK. My ratings.

The Egyptian
Movie grade: B+
PQ grade: B+

This was an interesting film to me. I founding the main character both frustrating and fascinating. Having had a long time interest in ancient Egypt, and specifically Akhnaten, I was drawn to this portrayal of very early monotheism. Almost 25 years ago I bought the opera Akhnaten by Philip Glass on CD, which I enjoyed a lot and sometimes would sometimes listen to while writing college papers. More recently I enjoyed a fine documentary on Akhnaten by Egytologist Bob Brier, and I've also read a few books on the topic. Anyway, the lavish production design on this film helped fulfill my visualizations of this era. The twists and turns of the main character's moral journey were, I thought, compelling. But I tend to like that kind of thing more than just action. So, to me it was one of the good ancient world epics of the era, along with Quo Vadis, Ten Commandments, Ben Hur, etc. The PQ is quite good, and the score done in part by Bernard Herrmann is lovely and mysterious.

Mysterious Island
Movie: B
PQ: B

Had a lot of fun watching this one with my kids. A good B movie with fine Harryhausen monsters!

Picnic
Move: B
PQ: B+

This is a compelling movie with some flawed performances. I like Kim Novak a lot. And William Holden is quite good too, although about 5 years too old for the role imho. Rosalnd Russell was too over the top for me. But Susan Strasberg was great. Does anyone else know what else she was in during that era that's good?

So, they are all solid movies that I'm glad to have in my collection. I plan to get Rapture and Journey at some point, but I'm skipping Swamp Water.

I've already ordered Demetrius and Bite the Bullet. Both of those are blind buys, and I'm looking forward to the opening night premieres in my living room!

[P@t_Mtl]

The only negative points I can make on TT is that that the bonus features are slim for the price when compare to Criterion. Criterion goes out and make their own bonus features. So far TT as not but maybe it will change in the futur.

PQ wise so far I am happy. I know that not everyone is however

[Pirate King]

My two cents worth about TT's pricing... Someone mentioned the price of laser discs.. been there, done that... I remember.. I believe it was 1982.. Star Wars A New Hope.. On VHS. and I think it was about 35.00. In todays dollars, I am guessing it would be twice that... maybe more. for VHS! The asking price for Twilight Times Blu-rays are a bargain. And considering that if were not for them, we might not have Blu-rays of The Egyptian, Mysterious Island and the soon to be released Demetrius and the Gladiators and Journey to the Center of the Earth. I am delighted to own these quality transfers and have no problem with the price. Thank you Twilight Time.

[JoeDeM]

Originally Posted by P@t_Mtl

The only negative points I can make on TT is that that the bonus features are slim for the price when compare to Criterion. Criterion goes out and make their own bonus features. So far TT as not but maybe it will change in the futur.

PQ wise so far I am happy. I know that not everyone is however

That's true, but they are a small company just starting out, adding in extras could just bog them down at this point, but like you said maybe in the future.

I only have 2 right now Mysterious Island and Pal Joey, I also own them on DVD so in comparison the Blu-rays are way better, but I find Pal Joey to be a little soft for a blu-ray. I will be picking up Picnic, Bell Book and Candle, and Journey to the center of the earth, which I also own on DVD .

Mysterious Island
PQ B
Movie B+

Pal Joey
PQ B-
movie B+

[Yankees0222]

Originally Posted by Pirate King

My two cents worth about TT's pricing... Someone mentioned the price of laser discs.. been there, done that... I remember.. I believe it was 1982.. Star Wars A New Hope.. On VHS. and I think it was about 35.00. In todays dollars, I am guessing it would be twice that... maybe more. for VHS! The asking price for Twilight Times Blu-rays are a bargain. And considering that if were not for them, we might not have Blu-rays of The Egyptian, Mysterious Island and the soon to be released Demetrius and the Gladiators and Journey to the Center of the Earth. I am delighted to own these quality transfers and have no problem with the price. Thank you Twilight Time.

To say that $35 for a barebones disk is a bargain seems a little hyperbolic. I don't think anyone can say that price is a bargain with a straight face. You can't compare what prices were for movies 20 years ago. You have to go by today's standards and $35 is a lot of a single film.

That being said, I'm willing to pay a premium price for a movie that I really want. The price isn't going to stop me. I can still see why some people would get up in arms over the price though.

A movie like Agaig probably isnt worth the $35 they're gonna be asking for it. And for those who enjoy the film and want to own it it but do not want to pay that high of a price tag are the ones who get screwed.

When you can buy a Hitchcock movie on release date for $12.99 (To Catch a Thief - with amazing PQ, an abundance of extras AND a slipcover), $35 is a heck of a lot of money..... Which sucks because TT releases a lot of interesting movies I'd like to own (Egyptian, mysterious island, pal Joey) but not at those prices

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by benbess

The people who run TT are movie buffs, and they are targeting movie buffs. That group may overlap with a smaller group that are collectors/speculators. The people here on this site are movie buffs, I think, who want to talk about the movies. When you're done talking about TT's business model, hope you'll chime in with some movie buff stuff...

Yes indeed benbess...something that comes through loud and clear in both of those Redman interviews, yet tends to get lost in these discussions. Those who own and run TT are fans first, and their impetus for entering the Blu-ray market wasn't just an out-of-the-blue business idea in a total vacuum. It came after years of watching fave soundtracks continue to languish in studio vaults...year...after year...after year...until they came up with a way to release them in limited collector-targeted runs. And if they could find a way to apply that same limited 'magazine rate' model to Blu-rays, maybe some of these long neglected catalogue movies could also be rescued from the vaults too...not just for other fans, but themselves.

Actually, it's the oldest recipe for a viable startup: recognizing a need of your own that's not being fulfilled, and while finding a way to satisfy that, the byproduct is a way to bring it others. Bingo! New business. One of the reasons I've been so supportive of TT is because I recognized almost immediately what they were doing, and was grateful that someone had been creative and savvy enough to find an end-run around the chronic studio roadblocks against releasing more catalogue titles.