Twilight Time Discussion Thread

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by Brad1963

I agree. From Here to Eternity sounds like a Criterion release to me.

Actually, it sounds like one of the few titles that Sony will do themselves Brad. Why? Only because they always have...on VHS...on LD...on DVD...heck, FHTE even had a Superbit edition!

I still think Sony's recently announced 'Mastered in 4k' branding will begin showing up on a lot of their retail Blu-rays, and might even tip the scales back towards release of some 'select' Columbia Classics titles in HD (e.g. the Capra films, maybe some Noirs). Like Fox with their revived Studio Classics series, not redoing all of them, but at least some...the rest still up for grabs among trusted licensees like Criterion and Twilight Time.

[EddieLarkin]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

Actually, it sounds like one of the few titles that Sony will do themselves Brad. Why? Only because they always have...on VHS...on LD...on DVD...heck, FHTE even had a Superbit edition!

Was this not also the case with On the Waterfront, a 4K title Criterion just put out?

A number of people also took the waves in this clue to be FHTE as well:

http://i.imgur.com/Y4lYVVp.jpg

Bit of a stretch though.

[EricJ]

And suppose most folks noticed the resident TT insider on HTF's forum recently semi-confirming this week:

For what it's worth, Twilight Time will be releasing a 1950s 3-D film in early 2014.

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/t/31...0#post_4039641

Old news, but from the horse's mouth.
Easy speculation is for Sony up-dumping their PSN print of Mad Magician, but the faction of 3D authorities on HTF have been speculating about new possible restorations of "Miss Sadie Thompson" and "Gorilla at Large". So could go any possible way.

[NoirFan]

Miss Sadie Thompson sounds most likely. Somehow, I doubt they'd see much marketability of a $30 disc of Gorilla at Large, but a Rita Hayworth musical, or to a lesser degree, a mid-level Vincent Price horror film would be a different story.

[EricJ]

Originally Posted by NoirFan

Miss Sadie Thompson sounds most likely. Somehow, I doubt they'd see much marketability of a $30 disc of Gorilla at Large, but a Rita Hayworth musical, or to a lesser degree, a mid-level Vincent Price horror film would be a different story.

Columbia made Magician as their very unreasonable-similarities "answer" to Warner's House of Wax, and given the expectation for Warner's Wax disk, and the direction of fans' interest in 50's 3D, I have a feeling...that's how Sony and TT are going to sell it. The more things stay the same.

(It'd be nice to have Gorilla, but it'd also be nice to at least get a cheaper Amazon price for Magician than PSN's $30-take-it-or-leave-it.)

[Seymour]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

Any Hammer or Noir titles that have fallen through the cracks elsewhere?

Not a bad thought, here. Anybody think Twilight Time might release the 1961 Hammer production Scream of Fear? (Originally titled Taste of Fear in the UK)

[MTRodaba2468]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

The best (and likliest) candidates I see for Twilight Time from both of your lists are Obsession, Body Double, A Man For All Seasons, The Swimmer, Dead Heat on a Merry Go-Round, Walk on the Wild Side, Strait-Jacket, His Girl Friday, and maybe Fat City, Shampoo, and/or California Split.

I know I've said this before, but I still maintain that Obsession would not be a prime candidate for a title that Twilight Time should release, if only because there is already a Blu-Ray release available.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Obsession-Blu-ray-Region-Cliff-Robertson/dp/B004QIT2X8/ref=sr_1_2?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1361736781&sr=1-2

While it's a UK import, it is region free, and is a great release in its own right. While it doesn't have an isolated score, something that Twilight Time would undoubtably add, I don't think you would have too many people going for a limited Twilight Time release when they could get this for almost half the cost...

[Brad1963]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

Actually, it sounds like one of the few titles that Sony will do themselves Brad. Why? Only because they always have...on VHS...on LD...on DVD...heck, FHTE even had a Superbit edition!

I still think Sony's recently announced 'Mastered in 4k' branding will begin showing up on a lot of their retail Blu-rays, and might even tip the scales back towards release of some 'select' Columbia Classics titles in HD (e.g. the Capra films, maybe some Noirs). Like Fox with their revived Studio Classics series, not redoing all of them, but at least some...the rest still up for grabs among trusted licensees like Criterion and Twilight Time.

I forgot about the Superbit. Hopefully they will. They need to start releasing classic titles on their own label.

[Brent L.]

I'm not sure what I'm more shocked at. The fact that TT released As Good As it Gets instead of it getting a normal packed Blu-ray release, or the fact that it hasn't even sold out of the 3,000 copies yet.

[NoirFan]

Originally Posted by Brent L.

I'm not sure what I'm more shocked at. The fact that TT released As Good As it Gets instead of it getting a normal packed Blu-ray release, or the fact that it hasn't even sold out of the 3,000 copies yet.

I'm not shocked that it hasn't sold out. Casual, non-collector, non-forum frequenting movie fans would buy it for $10 at Walmart, but aren't going to shell out $30 to buy an online exclusive.

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by MTRodaba2468

I know I've said this before, but I still maintain that Obsession would not be a prime candidate for a title that Twilight Time should release, if only because there is already a Blu-Ray release available.

http://www.amazon.co.uk/Obsession-Blu-ray-Region-Cliff-Robertson/dp/B004QIT2X8/ref=sr_1_2?s=dvd&ie=UTF8&qid=1361736781&sr=1-2

While it's a UK import, it is region free, and is a great release in its own right. While it doesn't have an isolated score, something that Twilight Time would undoubtably add, I don't think you would have too many people going for a limited Twilight Time release when they could get this for almost half the cost...

And I still think you are overestimating the number of North American collectors who routinely shop overseas for American movies, and are underestimating the soundtrack fans who would be on a TT edition in a snap just to get its classic Herrmann score isolated (all CD versions are currently out of print and going for wads of dough). Would that be enough fan and collector interest to justify a wider release? Of course not, which is why we're discussing it here. But with 3000 premium produced and packaged Blu-rays including IST, sold exclusively via 'Soundtrack Central' (SAE), I think Obsession would not only land in TT's comfort zone just nicely, but also probably become one of their brisker deep catalogue sellouts. I mean, we've already had a preview of the 'Herrmann factor' with both Journey to the Center of the Earth and Mysterious Island. In both those cases, I doubt it was only the genre of movie at play.

Movie-only fans, especially those with no interest in ISTs or little interest in the quality of the entire package, frequently dismiss this factor, but TT is first and foremost a collector label targeted at collectors...specifically of soundtracks. So just getting a movie like Obsession as cheaply as possible, with large 'hazmat'-style UK video warnings defacing what was indifferent artwork to begin with, and no IST or liner essay...well, forgive me if I "yawwwn". We're talking about different markets entirely. Collectors understand this difference implicitly. Which is why limited editions even exist...

It's a moot point anyway MTRodaba2468, because TT hasn't announced Obsession yet, but I would bet a fin that it's on their radar...

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by Seymour

Not a bad thought, here. Anybody think Twilight Time might release the 1961 Hammer production Scream of Fear? (Originally titled Taste of Fear in the UK)

[Show spoiler]

With a script by Hammer vet Jimmy Sangster I'd be interested in that one Seymour. It never had a standalone R1 DVD release, only via SPHE's Hammer box*. So who knows?

Although technically not a Hammer production, The Creeping Flesh was Hammer in all but name only. Another possibility?

* BTW, that same box included The Curse of the Mummy's Tomb , The Two Faces of Dr. Jekyll, and The Gorgon.

[RiFiFi1955]

Originally Posted by Seymour

Not a bad thought, here. Anybody think Twilight Time might release the 1961 Hammer production Scream of Fear? (Originally titled Taste of Fear in the UK)

I absolutely love this movie and would love to see TT release it on Blu-Ray.

[bluknight1]

Is anybody else here hoping for a release of 3 Fly films? They seem like prime TT material. Sure to be fairly swift sellouts too.

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

Was this not also the case with On the Waterfront, a 4K title Criterion just put out?

A number of people also took the waves in this clue to be FHTE as well:

http://i.imgur.com/Y4lYVVp.jpg

Bit of a stretch though.

Since the sign says "Coney Island", and FHTE was set in Hawaii, then yes, I'd say that's indeed a "bit of a stretch".

As for On the Waterfront, it never had a Superbit DVD. But I think that's probably one Sony title that Criterion specifically went after...especially with the added backstory (and SE possibilities) offered by its different aspect ratios.

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by EricJ

And suppose most folks noticed the resident TT insider on HTF's forum recently semi-confirming this week:

http://www.hometheaterforum.com/t/31...0#post_4039641

Old news, but from the horse's mouth.
Easy speculation is for Sony up-dumping their PSN print of Mad Magician, but the faction of 3D authorities on HTF have been speculating about new possible restorations of "Miss Sadie Thompson" and "Gorilla at Large". So could go any possible way.

What about Man in the Dark?



'Technically' it was the first 3D movie from a major studio...beating WB's House of Wax to theatres by a couple of weeks.

[MTRodaba2468]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

And I still think you are overestimating the number of North American collectors who routinely shop overseas for American movies, and are underestimating the soundtrack fans who would be on a TT edition in a snap just to get its classic Herrmann score isolated (all CD versions are currently out of print and going for wads of dough). Would that be enough fan and collector interest to justify a wider release? Of course not, which is why we're discussing it here. But with 3000 premium produced and packaged Blu-rays including IST, sold exclusively via 'Soundtrack Central' (SAE), I think Obsession would not only land in TT's comfort zone just nicely, but would probably also become one of their brisker sellouts. I mean, we've already had a preview of the 'Herrmann factor' with both Journey to the Center of the Earth and Mysterious Island. In both those cases, I doubt it was only the genre of movie at play.

Movie-only fans, especially those with no interest in ISTs, or little interest in the quality of the entire package, frequently dismiss this factor, but TT is first and foremost a collector label targeted it at collectors...specifically of soundtracks. So just getting a movie like Obsession as cheaply as possible, with large 'hazmat'-style UK video warnings defacing what was indifferent artwork to begin with, and no IST or liner essay...well, forgive me if I "yawwwn". We're talking about different markets entirely. Collectors understand this difference implicitly. Which is why limited editions even exist...

It's a moot point anyway MTRodaba2468, because TT hasn't announced Obsession yet, but I would bet a fin that it's on their radar...

I'll concede that it may be a slight over-exaggeration on my part, but no more than slight. The average consumer isn't going to have much, if any, awareness about a Twilight Time release of a movie and an overseas import of the same title; they appear of the radars of those like ourselves, whom have more than a fleeting interest in films. And while it may be incorrect on my part, but I would like to assume that when you take that into account, the percentage of those that are willing to import would go up, especially when you consider that the title in question is an import-friendly release (i.e. not region locked, has no PAL content which could cause problems on some players).

As far as the isolated score factor goes, I don't think it would necessarily be enough to make the title a "brisk sellout" if Twilight Time were to put it out. Sales on The Fury (another De Palma film, with this one having an OOP score by John Williams) have slowed down considerably since the first day presales went up. I think The Fury will sell out eventually, but I think it's more because it's a Brian De Palma film that doesn't have a Blu-Ray release elsewhere rather than due to the isolated score track.

Also, I can tell you're not that familiar with Arrow's release of Obsession, or their releases in general. The ratings are on the slipcase, but not obscuring any of the four choices of artwork you can choose to showcase (frequently posters from other countries). Unlike their other releases, this one doesn't have a liner essay, but it makes up for it by including the original screenplay in the package. As a collector, I'm quite happy with the release; again, the only thing missing that TT would provide is the IST.

Ultimately, you're right, it's all just speculating. I'm just stating why I think differently on it being on their radar...

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by MTRodaba2468

[Show spoiler]I'll concede that it may be a slight over-exaggeration on my part, but no more than slight. The average consumer isn't going to have much, if any, awareness about a Twilight Time release of a movie and an overseas import of the same title; they appear of the radars of those like ourselves, whom have more than a fleeting interest in films. And while it may be incorrect on my part, but I would like to assume that when you take that into account, the percentage of those that are willing to import would go up, especially when you consider that the title in question is an import-friendly release (i.e. not region locked, has no PAL content which could cause problems on some players).

As far as the isolated score factor goes, I don't think it would necessarily be enough to make the title a "brisk sellout" if Twilight Time were to put it out. Sales on The Fury (another De Palma film, with this one having an OOP score by John Williams) have slowed down considerably since the first day presales went up. I think The Fury will sell out eventually, but I think it's more because it's a Brian De Palma film that doesn't have a Blu-Ray release elsewhere rather than due to the isolated score track.

Also, I can tell you're not that familiar with Arrow's release of Obsession, or their releases in general. The ratings are on the slipcase, but not obscuring any of the four choices of artwork you can choose to showcase (frequently posters from other countries). Unlike their other releases, this one doesn't have a liner essay, but it makes up for it by including the original screenplay in the package.

As a collector, I'm quite happy with the release; again, the only thing missing that TT would provide is the IST.

But you continue to speak about the inclusion of an IST like "well yeah that's nice, so what?", and I guess to you and other movie-only fans it likely is just that...at best a quaint afterthought. But step outside your own frame of reference long enough to understand who TT actually is, why they do what they do, how they do it, and for whom. Nick Redman has had a major hand in literally hundreds of soundtrack recoveries and restorations for Fox Music over the past 20 years. That's his bag, and by extension the TT label. Their isolated scores aren't just mixdowns without the dialogue...these are the original studio soundtrack recording sessions...meticulously restored sometimes over the course of years...thus of considerable value to the small, but dedicated pool of fans and collectors who cherish this 'hybrid media' approach in the preservation of all aspects of a fave vintage movie.

So to TT's target market of home media collectors this distinctive audio option is a very significant feature of these Blu-rays...and why they continue to be preferred even in the face of other editions from other regions. For example, over the past year or so, The Egyptian has been available in at least 3 other Blu-ray editions worldwide, and yet TT's edition continues selling just fine. If what you say is true, then how could that be? By your logic, TT's edition shouldn't even have sold this many...potential buyers would have long ago defected to the cheaper Swedish, Danish, or French editions instead. But TT's Egyptian continues to sell and is closer than ever to selling out. Why? Because TT had access to a more recent and superior Fox transfer...plus the feature length commentary...plus that rare Newman-Herrmann score in isolated form. I'll concede that no one factor has set it apart, but as a complete A/V package it has clearly become the most desirable edition among collectors.

Ultimately, you're right though, it's all just speculation regarding the suitability of Obsession to TT's model, or its market viability. But IMO that wouldn't be because an Arrow Blu-ray edition is already available in Britain; personally, I think this film is a great fit for TT and what they do best, and I suspect the only thing really holding them back from such a project would be waiting for Sony to remaster the picture in 4k...

[EddieLarkin]

I think it's worth pointing out that unlike international releases of current TT titles, the Arrow release of Obsession is a UK disc. It has English text on the cover, in the booklet if there is one, the menu and any extras will be in English dialogue. No weird German or Scandinavian words that look like gobbledygook to most of us. I think this aspect contributes hugely to some Americans not importing from EU countries, whilst being fine with doing so from the UK.

Although I'm sure plenty of soundtrack fanatics would snap up a TT Obsession, I don't think it would be supported much by anyone else, who could import the cheaper Arrow disc instead. Unless of course it comes with a new transfer.

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

But you continue to speak about the inclusion of an IST like "well yeah that's nice, so what?", and I guess to you and other movie-only fans it likely is just that...at best a quaint afterthought. But step outside your own frame of reference long enough to understand who TT actually is, why they do what they do, how they do it, and for whom.

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

Movie-only fans, especially those with no interest in ISTs or little interest in the quality of the entire package, frequently dismiss this factor, but TT is first and foremost a collector label targeted at collectors...specifically of soundtracks. So just getting a movie like Obsession as cheaply as possible, with large 'hazmat'-style UK video warnings defacing what was indifferent artwork to begin with, and no IST or liner essay...well, forgive me if I "yawwwn". We're talking about different markets entirely. Collectors understand this difference implicitly. Which is why limited editions even exist...

It is quite ironic to see that you went on to dismiss someone else's work, very obviously without even having seen it or knowing what it looks like, and then came back to question MTRodaba's post.

Here's what Arrow's releases looks like. Not only does it not have the logos you speculated it does -- in fact, the release comes with an extra slip -- but actually it has a reversible cover, original reversible posters, a massive booklet (actually a small book) containing Brad Stevens' essay "Obsession" and Paul Schrader's original screenplay of the film, and a regular booklet.







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