Twilight Time Discussion Thread

[EddieLarkin]

Svet, are most other Arrow releases so stacked with physical extras? Is Zombie Flesh Eaters?

[AgentOrange]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

It is quite ironic to see that you went on to dismiss someone else's work, very obviously without even having seen it or knowing what it looks like, and then came back to question MTRodaba's post.

Here's what Arrow's releases looks like. Not only does it not have the logos you speculated it does -- in fact, the release comes with an extra slip -- but actually it has a reversible cover, original reversible posters, a massive booklet (actually a small book) containing Brad Stevens' essay "Obsession" and Paul Schrader's original screenplay of the film, and a regular booklet.

[Show spoiler]






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Pro-B

Impressive package.

I always get a kick when ROclockCK goes on and on about Twilight time being "premium collectors packages". I guess he has a different definition from everybody else.

Don't get me wrong, I actually don't care about the superfluous trinkets in collectors packages anyway, but I at least recognize that Twilight Time releases are about as bare-bones as it gets. Fortunately their PQ/AQ standards and a few of their film choices have "converted" me into buying more than a handful of their blu-rays, but other than that I feel like I'm paying 200-300% premium just because of the "limited availability" model.

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

Svet, are most other Arrow releases so stacked with physical extras? Is Zombie Flesh Eaters?

Well, here's the review. You judge it.



Arrow also do different SteelBooks/LEs for the collectors, but I personally don't get as excited about them as I do about presentations/content. For more, you will have to look at the subforum where there are collectors that are far better informed than I am. I don't own any of their SteelBooks.

Special features -- they actually do new interviews, featurettes, etc.

Pro-B

[MTRodaba2468]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

But you continue to speak about the inclusion of an IST like "well yeah that's nice, so what?", and I guess to you and other movie-only fans it likely is just that...at best a quaint afterthought. But step outside your own frame of reference long enough to understand who TT actually is, why they do what they do, how they do it, and for whom. Nick Redman has had a major hand in literally hundreds of soundtrack recoveries and restorations for Fox Music over the past 20 years. That's his bag, and by extension the TT label. Their isolated scores aren't just mixdowns without the dialogue...these are the original studio soundtrack recording sessions...meticulously restored sometimes over the course of years...thus of considerable value to the small, but dedicated pool of fans and collectors who cherish this 'hybrid media' approach in the preservation of all aspects of a fave vintage movie.

So to TT's target market of home media collectors this distinctive audio option is a very significant feature of these Blu-rays...and why they continue to be preferred even in the face of other editions from other regions. For example, over the past year or so, The Egyptian has been available in at least 3 other Blu-ray editions worldwide, and yet TT's edition continues selling just fine. If what you say is true, then how could that be? By your logic, TT's edition shouldn't even have sold this many...potential buyers would have long ago defected to the cheaper Swedish, Danish, or French editions instead. But TT's Egyptian continues to sell and is closer than ever to selling out. Why? Because TT had access to a more recent and superior Fox transfer...plus the feature length commentary...plus that rare Newman-Herrmann score in isolated form. I'll concede that no one factor has set it apart, but as a complete A/V package it has clearly become the most desirable edition among collectors.

Ultimately, you're right though, it's all just speculation regarding the suitability of Obsession to TT's model, or its market viability. But IMO that wouldn't be because an Arrow Blu-ray edition is already available in Britain; personally, I think this film is a great fit for TT and what they do best, and I suspect the only thing really holding them back from such a project would be waiting for Sony to remaster the picture in 4k...

The isolated score isn't just a "quaint afterthought" in my view. I collect film scores as well (I'll concede that that collection isn't nearly as large as my movie collection, but I digress), and frankly, I'd love it if all releases had that option available. I'm also well aware of who Nick Redman is, and why the isolated scores are as big a part of the label as the films themselves. I made the observations I stated in my previous posts by stepping outside my frame of reference. Look at the number of people on these boards that, up until recent releases like Christine and the Flint films, would lament when Twilight Time was releasing a film they enjoyed, because it meant they would "have to spend $30 on a barebones release". You and I would both agree that "barebones" is not an apt term, due to the isolated score being included, but the fact that we've seen this lamentation constantly would show that plenty of people don't view it as an extra worth their time. I'm not dismissing isolated scores as not being a valuable asset to any film release, nor am I saying that there aren't those whom would pick up a title because it included one. I'm pointing out that, based on what I have seen, both with how well Twilight Time's releases have sold and with the discussion about said releases, that the isolated scores are not the major selling point for the majority of the people whom are buying them.

Concerning The Egyptian, yes, the Twilight Time release still sells (although at a very slow moving pace; how long has it been under 500 copies now yet still available?) even though there are other options available. However, you're applying my logic to a different scenario. In this case, the overseas releases of The Egyptian, as you yourself stated, are very inferior to Twilight Time's release, not even being in the same aspect ratio. I would argue that those looking for a copy would be more inclined to go for the Twilight Time release to get the film in the correct aspect ratio more than anything else. Obsession doesn't have that working against it; the Arrow release has excellent A/V quality, on top of everything else that they included, both as physical extras, as pro-b was kind enough to show in picture form, and in extras on the disc (the release includes some of De Palma's short films, just off the top of my head). As I said before, the only thing that TT would be able to provide that Arrow didn't already provide would be the isolated score. Again, I'm not dismissing that, but I've explained already why I don't think that would be a selling point for the majority of those that do buy their releases.

[rock, stone]

Originally Posted by MTRodaba2468

The isolated score isn't just a "quaint afterthought" in my view. I collect film scores as well (I'll concede that that collection isn't nearly as large as my movie collection, but I digress), and frankly, I'd love it if all releases had that option available. I'm also well aware of who Nick Redman is, and why the isolated scores are as big a part of the label as the films themselves. I made the observations I stated in my previous posts by stepping outside my frame of reference. Look at the number of people on these boards that, up until recent releases like Christine and the Flint films, would lament when Twilight Time was releasing a film they enjoyed, because it meant they would "have to spend $30 on a barebones release". You and I would both agree that "barebones" is not an apt term, due to the isolated score being included, but the fact that we've seen this lamentation constantly would show that plenty of people don't view it as an extra worth their time. I'm not dismissing isolated scores as not being a valuable asset to any film release, nor am I saying that there aren't those whom would pick up a title because it included one. I'm pointing out that, based on what I have seen, both with how well Twilight Time's releases have sold and with the discussion about said releases, that the isolated scores are not the major selling point for the majority of the people whom are buying them.

Concerning The Egyptian, yes, the Twilight Time release still sells (although at a very slow moving pace; how long has it been under 500 copies now yet still available?) even though there are other options available. However, you're applying my logic to a different scenario. In this case, the overseas releases of The Egyptian, as you yourself stated, are very inferior to Twilight Time's release, not even being in the same aspect ratio. I would argue that those looking for a copy would be more inclined to go for the Twilight Time release to get the film in the correct aspect ratio more than anything else. Obsession doesn't have that working against it; the Arrow release has excellent A/V quality, on top of everything else that they included, both as physical extras, as pro-b was kind enough to show in picture form, and in extras on the disc (the release includes some of De Palma's short films, just off the top of my head). As I said before, the only thing that TT would be able to provide that Arrow didn't already provide would be the isolated score. Again, I'm not dismissing that, but I've explained already why I don't think that would be a selling point for the majority of those that do buy their releases.

I think first impressions have a lot to do with it, as well. TT's early releases may have had the IS, but lacked something as simple as "scene selection". A hefty price tag combined with a lack of attention to detail made these hard to swallow as genuine "collector's edition". I know a couple people who have TT discs, and every one of us vacillates from "I'm glad I have this movie" to "ehhhh, it's okay, I guess" and back again. They certainly aren't discs that you show your friends when they come over.

TT is what it is (and appears to be improving), the hyperbolic fringe aside.

[Clark Kent]

Originally Posted by EddieLarkin

Svet, are most other Arrow releases so stacked with physical extras? Is Zombie Flesh Eaters?

There isn't a better distributor in the world at packaging their Blu-rays than Arrow. It is their questionable transfers at times that have drawn the ire of some commentators.

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by MTRodaba2468

[Show spoiler]The isolated score isn't just a "quaint afterthought" in my view. I collect film scores as well (I'll concede that that collection isn't nearly as large as my movie collection, but I digress), and frankly, I'd love it if all releases had that option available. I'm also well aware of who Nick Redman is, and why the isolated scores are as big a part of the label as the films themselves. I made the observations I stated in my previous posts by stepping outside my frame of reference. Look at the number of people on these boards that, up until recent releases like Christine and the Flint films, would lament when Twilight Time was releasing a film they enjoyed, because it meant they would "have to spend $30 on a barebones release". You and I would both agree that "barebones" is not an apt term, due to the isolated score being included, but the fact that we've seen this lamentation constantly would show that plenty of people don't view it as an extra worth their time. I'm not dismissing isolated scores as not being a valuable asset to any film release, nor am I saying that there aren't those whom would pick up a title because it included one.

I'm pointing out that, based on what I have seen, both with how well Twilight Time's releases have sold and with the discussion about said releases, that the isolated scores are not the major selling point for the majority of the people whom are buying them.

[Show spoiler]Concerning The Egyptian, yes, the Twilight Time release still sells (although at a very slow moving pace; how long has it been under 500 copies now yet still available?) even though there are other options available. However, you're applying my logic to a different scenario. In this case, the overseas releases of The Egyptian, as you yourself stated, are very inferior to Twilight Time's release, not even being in the same aspect ratio. I would argue that those looking for a copy would be more inclined to go for the Twilight Time release to get the film in the correct aspect ratio more than anything else. Obsession doesn't have that working against it; the Arrow release has excellent A/V quality, on top of everything else that they included, both as physical extras, as pro-b was kind enough to show in picture form, and in extras on the disc (the release includes some of De Palma's short films, just off the top of my head).

As I said before, the only thing that TT would be able to provide that Arrow didn't already provide would be the isolated score. Again, I'm not dismissing that, but I've explained already why I don't think that would be a selling point for the majority of those that do buy their releases.

I'm not disagreeing with anything you're saying.

Nor I with you actually MTRodaba2468, just perhaps a different level of emphasis is all. In the case of Obsession, I'm willing to hold out for a more complete package, which, in terms of my collector interests includes IST, in no small part because Herrmann's contribution to that picture was so instrumental to its success (sorry, cheesy pun intended).

Plus I don't think at this point there's any reason to believe it would be the same transfer...we have lots of examples in the collection already (and increasing monthly) where TT has had access to what is fresh out of Grover Crisp's 4k hopper. TT waits, and I'm glad they do. So I am willing to wait patiently too. Look at Major Dundee which will be arriving over a year after it was originally announced. There has to be a darn good reason for that, and based on TT's own hints, I have my theories about why they held off for so long.

Of course, there's always a chance that for one reason or the other TT will never get around to doing Obsession, but I'm willing to take that chance for the sake of that long coveted Herrmann IST.

[Seymour]

The Arrow release of Obsession actually has the Columbia Pictures logo at the beginning of the film (as in, they got it from Sony). Plus, it's a fairly recent release, as it came out in 2011. The transfer is absolutely stellar--I doubt it could ever look much better.

[MTRodaba2468]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

Nor I with you actually MTRodaba2468, just perhaps a different level of emphasis is all. In the case of Obsession, I'm willing to hold out for a more complete package, which, in terms of my collector interests includes IST, in no small part because Herrmann's contribution to that picture was so instrumental to its success (sorry, cheesy pun intended).

Plus I don't think at this point there's any reason to believe it would be the same transfer...we have lots of examples in the collection already (and increasing monthly) where TT has had access to what is fresh out of Grover Crisp's 4k hopper. TT waits, and I'm glad they do. So I am willing to wait patiently too. Look at Major Dundee which will be arriving over a year after it was originally announced. There has to be a darn good reason for that, and based on TT's own hints, I have my theories about why they held off for so long.

Of course, there's always a chance that for one reason or the other TT will never get around to doing Obsession, but I'm willing to take that chance for the sake of that long coveted Herrmann IST.

Fair enough. I'd hesitate to call it a "complete package", since I wouldn't expect Twilight Time to license the interviews Arrow conducted for their disc, the De Palma short films they included, a printed copy of the screenplay, etc. Rather, I'd say you'd like a release which falls more in line with your interests, with the isolated score being a major selling point. I see absolutely nothing wrong with that. I've got both the Arrow release and the Scream Factory release of The Funhouse just for the different extras they offer.

Now Arrow's release, as Seymour said, is from 2011, and is a very nice high def transfer (definitely one of the better ones that Arrow have put out). However, I don't know if it was licensed from Sony or if Arrow did it themselves, and if it was from Sony, whether it was from a 4K master or not. So there is a chance, if TT were to decide to put this title out, that it would have an improved transfer. Not a giant leap, mind you, but marginally better.

And I won't lie, if they did announce this title, and it had an improved transfer, that, along with the isolated score, would probably be enough for me to grab a copy, and I already have the Arrow disc. However, I realize that I'm a bit more OCD with my completionism than others, and I wouldn't expect many others to follow suit. That was my original point. The fact that there is a non-limited version of this title available on Blu-Ray, available for a cheaper price than TT would be offering it, to me, would make it a less enticing title for Twilight Time to put out, compared to the other films that Sony or Fox have offered them that don't already have a release elsewhere.

[EricJ]

Originally Posted by bluknight1

Is anybody else here hoping for a release of 3 Fly films? They seem like prime TT material. Sure to be fairly swift sellouts too.

You've never even SEEN the third Fly "film" (and if you had, you'd know why I used quotes), have you?
It's a British TV drama. It looks like Dark Shadows (the soap opera, not the movie) with Hammer actors. It has only the most tenuous connection to the two "real" movies (teleportation experiments), and even then is pretty much name-only past the concept.
Completism has its limits.

[jrsl76]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

Since the sign says "Coney Island", and FHTE was set in Hawaii, then yes, I'd say that's indeed a "bit of a stretch".

As for On the Waterfront, it never had a Superbit DVD. But I think that's probably one Sony title that Criterion specifically went after...especially with the added backstory (and SE possibilities) offered by its different aspect ratios.

Re: the drawing, the Coney Island and the water may be 1 clue, but if it follows Criterion patterns, then it has the possibility of being 2 clues.

Coney Island = Lonesome
Shoreline = ? Perhaps FHTE

[EddieLarkin]

For those interested Obsession has just been reduced to around $12 on Amazon.co.uk

[Aclea]

Originally Posted by AgentOrange

I at least recognize that Twilight Time releases are about as bare-bones as it gets.

Except they're not. Both Our Man Flint and In Like Flint not only included all the featurettes from the Ultimate Flint DVD boxed set, but dug up several more that weren't included, as well as additional screen tests and isolated scores. Nicholas and Alexandra found two more featurettes that weren't included on the DVD release, along with the featurette and trailer that were. Lost Horizon is overflowing with extras, as are The Blue Lagoon and Christine, while Bell Book and Candle isn't too shoddy either. Even when there's an extremely limited amount of extra material available they go for booklets and isolated scores - the only barebones TT release I can think of is Cover Girl (which at least had a booklet), and Columbia's DVD release was similarly barebones. Compared to Image's Columbia titles - Image actually dropped all of the extras from their release of The Deep - TT are doing pretty well on the extras front, and constantly getting better.

[Seymour]

Originally Posted by Aclea

Compared to Image's Columbia titles - Image actually dropped all of the extras from their release of The Deep - TT are doing pretty well on the extras front, and constantly getting better.

Not true. I mentioned this earlier today in the thread for the film--the Image version of the The Deep actually contains the SPHE disc (2009 copyright, no Image logo whatsoever on the BD--like I said, it's the Sony disc). No extras lost with this bad boy.

[NoirFan]

Originally Posted by Clark Kent

There isn't a better distributor in the world at packaging their Blu-rays than Arrow.

Masters of Cinema (above even Criterion) consistently have the best packaging - massive, wonderfully detailed and stylish booklets (borderline books, in some cases), and typically wonderful cover and interior art.

[larrys]

Other Columbia titles not mentioned in this thread:

Tootsie
Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice
Eyes of Laura Mars
Bugsy (Tri-Star)
Tess (region B release in March, Amazon UK)

If TT announced any of these titles, it would be a day 1 pre-order for me.
Along with Shampoo, Hardcore, The China Syndrome and Body Double.

[EddieLarkin]

Got around to watching Bell Book and Candle. Loved it. Far more romance than comedy, which I wasn't expecting, but I prefer it that way. James Wong Howe leaves his mark even on a little film like this, with brilliant use of colour and coloured lighting.

So can we please have some more Novak and Quine please TT? Middle of the Night, Strangers When We Meet, The Notorious Landlady, How to Murder Your Wife and It Happened to Jane are all Columbia titles.

[Brad1963]

Originally Posted by larrys

Other Columbia titles not mentioned in this thread:

Tootsie
Bob & Carol & Ted & Alice
Eyes of Laura Mars
Bugsy (Tri-Star)
Tess (region B release in March, Amazon UK)

If TT announced any of these titles, it would be a day 1 pre-order for me.
Along with Shampoo, Hardcore, The China Syndrome and Body Double.

Tess (I believe) will be a Criterion release.

[NoirFan]

Originally Posted by MTRodaba2468

The fact that there is a non-limited version of this title available on Blu-Ray, available for a cheaper price than TT would be offering it, to me, would make it a less enticing title for Twilight Time to put out, compared to the other films that Sony or Fox have offered them that don't already have a release elsewhere.

A significantly cheaper price - only £7.39 ($11.17 before shipping added and VAT removed) from Amazon UK right now. Region-free, packed with extras, a very nice transfer - anyone who is a fan of the film shouldn't hesitate, unless an isolated score on an otherwise likely bare-bones disc is worth an additional $20 to you.

[EddieLarkin]

Originally Posted by Brad1963

Tess (I believe) will be a Criterion release.

It definitely will be, as Janus are the U.S. distributors:

http://www.filmforum.org/movies/more...polanskis_tess