Twilight Time Discussion Thread

[Dex Robinson]

Originally Posted by indisposed

It is when you end up paying for customs charges on top of it. Besides, it's not part of the contents of the package.

Thanks guys... I just decided to go without the tracking.

Twilight Time is dishonest because your government charges you Customs fees?

[Abdrewes]

Gorgeous cover art for The Driver. That and the one for Olive's The Enforcer rank among the best I have seen this year.

[PowellPressburger]

Originally Posted by Dex Robinson

Twilight Time is dishonest because your government charges you Customs fees?

I think he means by SAE including the shipping charges on top of the item costs it makes the price seem even higher possibly incurring him even more customs fees that may have not been warranted. Id be a bit angry also. it want as if he imported the Mona Lisa lol

update: Yeah I read it too fast. :-)

[Dex Robinson]

Originally Posted by PowellPressburger

I think he means by SAE including the shipping charges on top of the item costs it makes the price seem even higher possibly incurring him even more customs fees that may have not been warranted. Id be a bit angry also. it want as if he imported the Mona Lisa lol

But there is no suggestion that was done.

The original comment on this is as follows:

"The only time I've had a problem with TT is when I paid the extra tracking charge when ordering 3 soundtrack CD's (first time I'd noticed the warning on their site). They put the actual item cost on the package and I was stung with a £16 customs bill!"

This person was noting that SAE put the actual cost of the discs on the customs declaration...which is necessary if the package is registered. You can't lowball the price of a registered package because then it would only be insured for the lowball price.

So, as the poster said, They put the actual item cost on the package...".

No one claims that the shipping cost was added to declared value.

SAE sent a package which had to be declared at full item cost in order get full coverage in the event of loss.

[ROclockCK]

I think both claims are true. The U.K.'s VAT (Value-Added Tax) is a blatantly punitive money grab by the British Government levied at the 20%++ level against almost everything. According to friends who sell handmade crafts worldwide (or used to until overseas import taxes began spiraling through the roof*), the U.K.'s value-added tax also applies to the shipping costs...i.e. the total cost of the goods plus delivery service. Which means any item over $20-30 can easily double in cost by the time it finally reaches the customer. By comparison, Canada's own 5% GST looks positively benign.

However, to expect any legit N.A. business to fudge Customs declarations by grossly undervaluing their products, thus jeopardizing their own insurance in the case of damage or loss or risking fines for fraudulent Customs declarations, seems both unfair and unreasonable. And ultimately that is not the answer anyway...the sad truth is, this is a made-in-the-UK tax problem which only Britons can do anything substantial to change via their legislation and ballots.

* Apparently, not much better in Germany, France, and most of Europe either these days.

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

I think both claims are true. The U.K.'s VAT (Value-Added Tax) is a blatantly punitive money grab by the British Government levied at the 20%++ level against almost everything. According to friends who sell handmade crafts worldwide (or used to until overseas import taxes began spiraling through the roof*), the U.K.'s value-added tax also applies to the shipping costs...i.e. the total cost of the goods plus delivery service. Which means any item over $20-30 can easily double in cost by the time it finally reaches the customer. By comparison, Canada's own 5% GST looks positively benign.

However, to expect any legit N.A. business to fudge Customs declarations by grossly undervaluing their products, thus jeopardizing their own insurance in the case of damage or loss or risking fines for fraudulent Customs declarations, seems both unfair and unreasonable. And ultimately that is not the answer anyway...the sad truth is, this is a made-in-the-UK tax problem which only Britons can do anything substantial to change via their legislation and ballots.

* Apparently, not much better in Germany, France, and most of Europe either these days.

Without getting into a long debate about what's right or wrong it's been reported many times on this forum that SAE has "fudged" the customs declarations. So it does seem that they do take the risk of fines for fraudulent Customs declarations but not when it "jeopardiz(es) their own insurance in the case of damage."

[Dex Robinson]

Originally Posted by rdodolak

Without getting into a long debate about what's right or wrong it's been reported many times on this forum that SAE has "fudged" the customs declarations. So it does seem that they do take the risk of fines for fraudulent Customs declarations...

Two things:

The PS 2976 form has no specifically defined standard for "Value". There is no requirement that Value is defined as retail price. The box on the form simply says "Value". You can download all the info from the USPS website. In the case of Twilight Time titles, these are single sourced from Twilight Time itself so an argument could be made that that they define "value" as their wholesale cost or however they chose to define it. If I try to send an ounce of gold through the mail, it's value is well defined. But if a single source seller of a plastic disc sends their product through the mail, value is very subjective.

The legal risk to the sender in this case is almost non-existent. The PS 2976 with declared value is an American export form. Countries tend to have little interest in items leaving their jurisdiction. In order for a sender to be be found liable, a complaint has to be come from authorities in the importing country to authorities in the exporting country for "aiding us to fulfill the service (service providers); to domestic and international customs pursuant to federal law and agreements; and to other governmental entities with authority over exportation.".

The bottom line is that no nation is going to open a government to government dispute process over the question of what constitutes the value of a disc.

The only likely bearer of the burden is the importer...the guy getting the disc. If customs questions the value of something, they may well demand that you cough up more money.

I get stuff from outside Canada on an almost weekly basis (yesterday, I got a set of 1967 Tru-Vue 3D slides from New York via eBay....later this week, I should get my ImportCDs order). Customs isn't interested in opening disputes with foreign senders. They just want money...and they'll get it from YOU (the path of least resistance).

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by Dex Robinson

Two things:

The PS 2976 form has no specifically defined standard for "Value". There is no requirement that Value is defined as retail price. The box on the form simply says "Value". You can download all the info from the USPS website. In the case of Twilight Time titles, these are single sourced from Twilight Time itself so an argument could be made that that they define "value" as their wholesale cost or however they chose to define it. If I try to send an ounce of gold through the mail, it's value is well defined. But if a single source seller of a plastic disc sends their product through the mail, value is very subjective.

The legal risk to the sender in this case is almost non-existent. The PS 2976 with declared value is an American export form. Countries tend to have little interest in items leaving their jurisdiction. In order for a sender to be be found liable, a complaint has to be come from authorities in the importing country to authorities in the exporting country for "aiding us to fulfill the service (service providers); to domestic and international customs pursuant to federal law and agreements; and to other governmental entities with authority over exportation.".

The bottom line is that no nation is going to open a government to government dispute process over the question of what constitutes the value of a disc.

The only likely bearer of the burden is the importer...the guy getting the disc. If customs questions the value of something, they may well demand that you cough up more money.

I get stuff from outside Canada on an almost weekly basis (yesterday, I got a set of 1967 Tru-Vue 3D slides from New York via eBay....later this week, I should get my ImportCDs order). Customs isn't interested in opening disputes with foreign senders. They just want money...and they'll get it from YOU (the path of least resistance).

The PS 2976 is a generic form used for all countries but the seller is still responsible for knowing the rules and regulations of the destination country. For the UK, they define value as the transaction value (cost, insurance, freight, etc.)

But that doesn't explain the arbitrary valuation of goods SAE seems to use. If I remember correctly, some UK members have reported receiving non registered packages which valued a Blu-ray at $5 where as those that received identical items via registered mail were valued at the full transaction price $30 + shipping costs. So, why the discrepancy in the declared value for like items? The only reason I can think of is to allow the purchaser (importer) to avoid custom fees/duties except in the instances when it benefits the shipper (exporter).

Some countries hold the exporter and importer equally responsible and can levy fines on both and/or may confiscate future shipments from said exporter. This doesn't mean that they will but they could.

The US has different ways to determine value when importing goods into the US.

http://www.cbp.gov/linkhandler/cgov/...t/icp001r2.pdf

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by rdodolak

Without getting into a long debate about what's right or wrong it's been reported many times on this forum that SAE has "fudged" the customs declarations. So it does seem that they do take the risk of fines for fraudulent Customs declarations but not when it "jeopardiz(es) their own insurance in the case of damage."

Perhaps SAE is just finding it harder to get away with such "fudging" anymore, thanks in part to users bragging about that practice in very public 'Net forums such as this.

I don't know, you might be right that the VAT trigger is simply the level of service chosen (i.e. with tracking), which throws up a red flag to British Customs. I do know that here in Canada stuff slips through Customs all the time without GST due as long as it remains under $100.00 per order. Over that amount I invariably have to pay the 5% GST when I pick it up...even when using SAE's standard shipping rate, which is most of the time.

[Lemmy Lugosi]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

Perhaps SAE is just finding it harder to get away with such "fudging" anymore, thanks in part to users bragging about that practice in very public 'Net forums such as this.

Bingo.

[NoirFan]

Similar thing happened with Import CDs shipping titles early - people bragged about getting Scream titles 2-3 weeks before release, someone at Shout complained, and now we're lucky to get pre-orders a day or two after release.

[EddieLarkin]

It's not getting harder for them to do it because nothing has changed. All my SAE packages are still marked as $5 per item. But my very first order with them years ago used the insured tracking thing and I got charged at customs. So it's simple: if you're in the UK and you want a nasty customs charge, choose tracking/insured. If you don't, don't, and save yourself the cost of unnecessary insurance as well!

[CrazyHorse42]

Bingo!

[deepred]

Originally Posted by NoirFan

Similar thing happened with Import CDs shipping titles early - people bragged about getting Scream titles 2-3 weeks before release, someone at Shout complained, and now we're lucky to get pre-orders a day or two after release.

I know that Phantasm II shipped weeks early but they also had the street date on the site as three weeks early so that probably had something to do with it.

[captveg]

On another note - is the first post no longer getting updates? It's in need of one.

[HyperRealist]

[ROclockCK]

"Fasten your seatbelts, it's going to be a bumpy site..."

[Arkadin]

Originally Posted by captveg

On another note - is the first post no longer getting updates? It's in need of one.

yeah I've tried to get some action, but so far no luck.

[Blu Titan]

Originally Posted by Arkadin

yeah I've tried to get some action, but so far no luck.

If you are interested in becoming the op to keep the thread updated...let me know .

*If one of you is so kind as to post what releases are missing from the op I will add them. I am just not 100% on their announced titles.

[Akijama]

Originally Posted by Blu Titan

*If one of you is so kind as to post what releases are missing from the op I will add them. I am just not 100% on their announced titles.

Officially announced titles:

DRUMS ALONG THE MOHAWK (1939) BLU-RAY w/Becoming John Ford (2007) - Sept 10th
ALAMO BAY (1985) BLU-RAY - Sept 10th
MINDWARP (1992) BLU-RAY - Oct 8th
THE OTHER (1972) BLU-RAY - Oct 8th
OLIVER! (1968) BLU-RAY - Nov 12th
THE WAY WE WERE (1973) BLU-RAY - Nov 12th
JANE EYRE (1944) BLU-RAY - Nov 12th