Twilight Time Discussion Thread

[baheidstu]

Originally Posted by PuppetMasterBlu

If you check the already sold he actually sold 2 already. Man the people that don't know how to use Google amaze me.

But oh wow he's offering free shipping - whatta deal!

[neoz]

Originally Posted by MTRodaba2468

Shit, I'm sorry man. If you're still in a bind once The Blob comes out, I'll make sure to order a copy for ya...

Thanks for the offer Sir. I'll be sure to let you know. Hopefully I'll be getting a car soon.

[balthazar_bee]

Originally Posted by arthur214

As a huge Woody Allen fan, I can tell anyone wondering about The Front, that I didn't care too much for it. I'm willing to let it slide and may consider down the road if I feel like I am in a Woody drought. Can't wait for more to be announced!!! Love & Death, please!

I second Love & Death with a vengeance.

As far as The Front is concerned, I think it's terrific -- a really under appreciated little film, with first rate work from Allen the actor (to say nothing of Zero Mostel).

I remember first reading about it in Danny Peary's "Alternate Oscars" book, in which he named it the best picture of 1976. Not exactly a weak year, so I was pretty intrigued.

The ending makes me stand up and cheer.

[biglou114]

Originally Posted by Aclea

It's not for everyone, but I like it a lot. You can count the films dealing with the McCarthy era blacklist directly on the fingers of one hand, so it sounds like damning with faint praise to say that the rarely revived The Front is the best of them all. That it's the `Woody Allen film' that time forgot hasn't helped it's reputation, but in truth, although many regular Allen collaborators from co-star Michael Murphy to producers Jack Rollins and Charles H. Joffe are involved, this isn't an Allen film: some of the wisecracks may be tailor-made for him, but this is Martin Ritt and Walter Bernstein's film and Allen's just playing a role, that of a cashier and small-time bookie who finds himself `fronting' for blacklisted writers for 10% of whatever they get for their scripts.



Kicking off with a superb scene-setting montage of the 50s at its best and worst, from baseball and apple pie to the Korean War and the execution of the Rosenbergs while Frank Sinatra sings Young at Heart on the soundtrack, it's a film that certainly speaks from personal experience. Along with writer Walter Bernstein and director Martin Ritt (who had both touched upon the blacklist more obliquely in 1970's The Molly Maguires) many of the cast - Zero Mostel, Herschel Bernardi, Lloyd Gough, Joshua Shelley - were blacklisted, while the daughter of one of the blacklist's most tragic victims, John Garfield, also appears. Yet surprisingly it's not a whitewash: the blacklisted writers make it clear that they weren't put on the list by mistake but because they are communists, while Allen's front may start out on his new career as a favor to a friend but quickly shows his true opportunistic colors. No sooner has he seen how much money he can make than he's taking on more writers at higher rates, seducing Andrea Marcovicci's production assistant who is really in love with the words that aren't even his own rather than the man himself and getting ideas above his station, refusing to hand in scripts he thinks aren't up to his standards because "It's my name that goes on the script." In that he's really no different from anyone else in a world where club owners take advantage of the blacklist to get performers like Mostel's increasingly suicidal Hecky Green at bargain rates and then still knock them down even further after a sell-out show. But it's not long before he becomes a political suspect himself...



Set in the fledgling TV industry where gas company sponsors insisted on rewriting concentration camp dramas to avoid giving their product a bad image and where businessmen who only owned a couple of stores could demand - and get - the right of veto over any cast members they thought are `too red' for their customers' liking by threatening to withdraw a single commercial (both true incidents), it doesn't really need to resort to comic invention, but it's more of an absurd yet dry black comedy that's often too dark NOT to laugh at. The final scene where Allen comes up against the committee and tries to bluff his way out of a contempt charge is really just a piece of wish fulfilment, the kind of thing you wish you had said long after the moment has passed, but it's hard to begrudge Ritt and Bernstein their moment: they earned it. Running a tight hour-and-a-half and with great photography by Michael Chapman, it's well worth investigating.

Another thing to point out is a good number of the cast & crew were actually questioned during the McCarthy hearings and were blacklisted. There's a lot of truth that slipped into this movie.

[buffetfroid]

I love everything about The Front, from the title sequence to the coda that lists all who participated in the film that were actually blacklisted. Woody is perfectly cast, the script is great, it's a highlight of the 70s in my opinion, and of course that was a great decade for Hollywood.

Writer Walter Bernstein's memoir of the blacklist is well worth seeking out if you are interested in the subject.

[AJHakari]

Crimes and Misdemeanors and The Front for me. Viva la Woody.

[Tom Monahan]

Originally Posted by UseY0ur1llusi0n

I see the scalpers are already out in full force LOL

It's against Ebay rules to pre-sell. I just reported his a**. If he wasn't ripping people off that don't know better I wouldn't have done so. I HATE when people are taken advantage of. He's no better than a sleazy mechanic who takes advantage of customers who have little knowledge about their vehicle.

[atfree]

Originally Posted by Tom Monahan

It's against Ebay rules to pre-sell. I just reported his a**. If he wasn't ripping people off that don't know better I wouldn't have done so. I HATE when people are taken advantage of. He's no better than a sleazy mechanic who takes advantage of customers who have little knowledge about their vehicle.

Not against the rules if you follow Ebay's rules for pre-selling (quoted from Ebay's policy):

"If you want to list presale items, you must meet all of the following criteria:

Guarantee that the item will be available for shipping within 30 days from the purchase date. Be sure to clearly state this information in your listing.

Clearly indicate in the listing that the item is a presale item.

The handling time specified in your listing should reflect the time from the end of the listing until the item is shipped to the buyer. Be sure to specify the correct handling time in your listing."

I pulled up that exact Ebay listing....in the item description, the seller clearly indicates it's a pre-order and meets the other specified criteria. People may not like it, but that's exactly what doing a "limited edition of 3000" creates....a secondary market with inflated prices.

As for taking advantage of people, it's not the seller's (or anyone else's) responsibility to protect people from their own stupidity or ignorance. Caveat emptor.

[Tom Monahan]

That list is great, but in practice, I still got suspended. I followed all the rules and spoke to ebay about it and it didn't help. Now that I know, I will never do so again. By the way, I didn't inflate prices.

In regards to that guy's auction, I'll let Ebay decide.

You must rip people off as well to make that last statement. People like this seller will take copies away from others who may actually want to own it and not just use it to make a buck. How any TT buyer can defend this is beyond my comprehension.

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by Tom Monahan

That list is great, but in practice, I still got suspended. I followed all the rules and spoke to ebay about it and it didn't help. Now that I know, I will never do so again. By the way, I didn't inflate prices.

In regards to that guy's auction, I'll let Ebay decide.

You must rip people off as well to make that last statement. People like this seller will take copies away from others who may actually want to own it and not just use it to make a buck. How any TT buyer can defend this is beyond my comprehension.

he just described every business known to man. take an item and price it for what he thinks will sell. you really think people sob into their pillows at night that some boutique store sells a projector at full msrp while best buy sells it for 40% off down the road?? this goes for ANY business, but prices are set by what consumers will pay for it vs. what the owner is willing to sell at... once the 2 line up and intersect you have a selling point. econ 101.

if someone thinks a price is unfair then they just don't buy it. if no one buys than the seller is forced to drop his price. that boutique electronics store I mentioned isn't going to go out of his way to say "hey, you can get it for 40% less just down the road at best buy ya know"... he's going to try and get that consumer to buy HIS product.

ripping someone off would be giving defective merchandise and not standing behind the product or lying to the person's face to get a sale

[atfree]

Originally Posted by Tom Monahan

That list is great, but in practice, I still got suspended. I followed all the rules and spoke to ebay about it and it didn't help. Now that I know, I will never do so again. By the way, I didn't inflate prices.

In regards to that guy's auction, I'll let Ebay decide.

You must rip people off as well to make that last statement. People like this seller will take copies away from others who may actually want to own it and not just use it to make a buck. How any TT buyer can defend this is beyond my comprehension.

No, I don't rip people off......when I do sell something on Ebay, I don't force anyone to buy anything, nor do I present it as something it's not. Again, I blame TT for the "black market" for their releases. They even say on their Facebook postings that they cater to the "collectors" market and the collector's market is what it is. People buy stuff every day, yourself included I'm sure, for more than they have to if they'd just researched it some. I buy from local businesses every day and pay more than I would if I used Amazon, just to keep my $ local.

And just for the record....this is NOT my item on Ebay. But more power to whoever is selling it. I think I might start buying more TT products and sell them (or rip-off people, to coin a phrase) on Ebay.....I can then use the profits to fund future blu-ray releases that are more reasonably priced as $30 for a barebones release that TT generally offers (other than much-wanted Redman-Kirbo commentary tracks that accompany all TT releases; and if I wanted an isolated score, I'd buy the CD!). At least paying that much (or more) for a Criterion release generally gets me a four-star transfer (actually done by Criterion) and extras.

TT does the 3000 thing just to create this kind of secondary market buzz about their products. It makes people feel they "have" to buy it NOW from THEM....or else people are afraid they'll have no choice to buy at inflated prices from the secondary market later on. That's why I hold my nose whenever I purchase a TT release. It's a great business model for them.

[Tom Monahan]

I apologize to all for taking this thread way off topic.

Tom

[wormraper]

weird, my order of the 2 sinbads shipped today, but my order from a week earlier for Enemy Mine is still stuck in pending.... sigh, time to email Ed

[Yojimbo]

Originally Posted by atfree

...$30 for a barebones release that TT generally offers (other than much-wanted Redman-Kirbo commentary tracks that accompany all TT releases; and if I wanted an isolated score, I'd buy the CD!). At least paying that much (or more) for a Criterion release generally gets me a four-star transfer (actually done by Criterion) and extras.

So I decided to take a look at all of the reviewed releases of Twilight Time. I'm not sure why people keep saying Twilight Time blu-rays are "barebones". atfree, keep in mind that I am not singling you out in particular. This is just something I've seen several people say. These are not exactly what I would call barebones:

Bell, Book & Candle- 2 interviews, trailer, isolated score
The Blue Lagoon- 2 commentaries, 4 trailers, 1 featurette, isolated score
Body Double- 4 featurettes, isolated score
Christine- commentary, deleted scenes, 3 featurettes, isolated score
The Disappearance- original director's cut, 2 featurettes, isolated score
The Driver- alternate opening, isolated score, trailer
Drums Along the Mohawk- 1 commentary, 1 documentary, trailer
The Egyptian- 1 commentary, isolated score, trailer
Experiment in Terror- 2 trailers, 2 tv spots, isolated score
The Golden Voyage of Sinbad- 3 featurettes, isolated score, trailer
In Like Flint- commentary, isolated score, 12 featurettes, 2 trailers
Jane Eyre- 2 commentaries, 2 featurettes, trailer, isolated score
Khartoum- 1 commentary, 2 trailers, isolated score
Leave Her to Heaven- 1 commentary, trailer, isolated score, Movietone news
Lost Horizon- 2 trailers, 2 tv spots, 1 alternate scene, 1 featurette, 1 music demo featurette, isolated score
Love is a Many-Splendored Thing- 1 commentary, isolated score, trailer, Movietone news
Major Dundee- theatrical & extended cuts, commentary, isolated score, trailer, outtakes, promo reel, deleted scene
Nicholas & Alexandra- isolated score, trailer, 3 featurettes
Night of the Living Dead- commentary, isolated score, trailer
Oliver!- 3 featurettes, isolated score, trailer, sing-alongs & dance instructions
Our Man Flint- commentary, isolated score, trailer, storyboard sequences, 7 featurettes, 2 screen tests
Pal Joey- 1 featurette, isolated score, trailer
Philadelphia- deleted scenes, protest footage & interviews, isolated score, trailer, commentary
The Rains of Ranchipur- 3 trailers, 1 tv spot, isolated score
Sexy Beast- commentary, featurette, isolated score, trailer
Sinbad and the Eye of the Tiger- 1 brief featurette, isolated score, trailer
Sleepless in Seattle- commentary, 1 featurette, isolated track, trailer, music video
The Song of Bernadette- commentary, featurette, isolated score, trailer
Those Magnificent Men in Their Flying Machines- commentary, isolated score, 2 trailers, 2 tv spots
The Way We Were- 2 commentaries, 1 featurette, isolated score, trailer
The Wayward Bus- commentary, isolated score, trailer

The only one I found that was truly barebones was Cover Girl. Everything else contains an isolated score and trailer. These may not be riveting special features to most, but they are still included and some people do enjoy them. I've seen Criterions for $30 that are truly barebones. Of course, you can get those much cheaper, but that's still the price they list. Anyway, I drew this list up because I was curious about it and had actually seen some pretty good stuff on some my Twilight Times, especially the Flint films.

[AgentOrange]

Originally Posted by Yojimbo

So I decided to take a look at all of the reviewed releases of Twilight Time. I'm not sure why people keep saying Twilight Time blu-rays are "barebones". atfree, keep in mind that I am not singling you out in particular. This is just something I've seen several people say. These are not exactly what I would call barebones:

Bell, Book & Candle- 2 interviews, trailer, isolated score
The Blue Lagoon- 2 commentaries, 4 trailers, 1 featurette, isolated score
Body Double- 4 featurettes, isolated score
Christine- commentary, deleted scenes, 3 featurettes, isolated score
The Disappearance- original director's cut, 2 featurettes, isolated score
The Driver- alternate opening, isolated score, trailer
Drums Along the Mohawk- 1 commentary, 1 documentary, trailer
The Egyptian- 1 commentary, isolated score, trailer
Experiment in Terror- 2 trailers, 2 tv spots, isolated score
The Golden Voyage of Sinbad- 3 featurettes, isolated score, trailer
In Like Flint- commentary, isolated score, 12 featurettes, 2 trailers
Jane Eyre- 2 commentaries, 2 featurettes, trailer, isolated score
Khartoum- 1 commentary, 2 trailers, isolated score
Leave Her to Heaven- 1 commentary, trailer, isolated score, Movietone news
Lost Horizon- 2 trailers, 2 tv spots, 1 alternate scene, 1 featurette, 1 music demo featurette, isolated score
Love is a Many-Splendored Thing- 1 commentary, isolated score, trailer, Movietone news
Major Dundee- theatrical & extended cuts, commentary, isolated score, trailer, outtakes, promo reel, deleted scene
Nicholas & Alexandra- isolated score, trailer, 3 featurettes
Night of the Living Dead- commentary, isolated score, trailer
Oliver!- 3 featurettes, isolated score, trailer, sing-alongs & dance instructions
Our Man Flint- commentary, isolated score, trailer, storyboard sequences, 7 featurettes, 2 screen tests
Pal Joey- 1 featurette, isolated score, trailer
Philadelphia- deleted scenes, protest footage & interviews, isolated score, trailer, commentary
The Rains of Ranchipur- 3 trailers, 1 tv spot, isolated score
Sexy Beast- commentary, featurette, isolated score, trailer
Sinbad and the Eye of the Tiger- 1 brief featurette, isolated score, trailer
Sleepless in Seattle- commentary, 1 featurette, isolated track, trailer, music video
The Song of Bernadette- commentary, featurette, isolated score, trailer
Those Magnificent Men in Their Flying Machines- commentary, isolated score, 2 trailers, 2 tv spots
The Way We Were- 2 commentaries, 1 featurette, isolated score, trailer
The Wayward Bus- commentary, isolated score, trailer

The only one I found that was truly barebones was Cover Girl. Everything else contains an isolated score and trailer. These may not be riveting special features to most, but they are still included and some people do enjoy them. I've seen Criterions for $30 that are truly barebones. Of course, you can get those much cheaper, but that's still the price they list. Anyway, I drew this list up because I was curious about it and had actually seen some pretty good stuff on some my Twilight Times, especially the Flint films.

Isolated score + trailer *IS* barebones. Even the few barebones Criterion's generally don't get any lower than having a commentary and trailer. And as far as Twilight Time, almost all of their initial releases WERE barebones. Hell, their first batch of releases didn't even have proper chapters. Take a look at Fright Night, as I recall that one has a chapter break ever 10 minutes - almost like an amateur video.

Of course, they've come a long way since then. I knew they were starting to port over a bunch of DVD extras, and actually looking at that list they've done more than I thought (hell I have some of those releases and didn't even realize there were extras on them).

I would say they are at least on par with what the studios would likely be putting out themselves - since studios don't do much than port DVD extras anyway. But I wouldn't compare them to Criterion - who produces alot of their own extras. You already pointed out that Criterion is more frequently available for much less than MSRP, but even if they weren't. They have two price points, $29.99 MSRP and $39.99 MSRP. The $39.99 MSRP are almost universally loaded with features, only the $29.99 ones are lacking.

[AgentOrange]

and I can't believe I forgot all about the autographed Royal Flash...

[Aclea]

Originally Posted by AgentOrange

Isolated score + trailer *IS* barebones. Even the few barebones Criterion's generally don't get any lower than having a commentary and trailer.

If you ignore their completely extras-free Eclipse range (often of films that have plenty of extras in other territories) and extras-free releases like Kapo, Gervaise, Sword of Doom, Lights of Variety, Mayerling, Le Trou... Admittedly all DVDs, but some will probably eventually turn up equally barebones on BD. And they've certainly released some dodgy transfers in their time (their about the transfer section in the Tunes of Glory DVD booklet that scrupulously doesn't mention the fact that there's a huge green tramline running through a whole reel of the film.

I knew they were starting to port over a bunch of DVD extras

In some cases they've added extras: several of the featurettes on the Flint films weren't even included in the Ultimate Flint DVD boxed set, as well as extras that weren't on the DVDs of titles like Drums Alonmg the Mohawk, The Disappearance, Nicholas and Alexandra and Major Dundee.

They have two price points, $29.99 MSRP and $39.99 MSRP. The $39.99 MSRP are almost universally loaded with features, only the $29.99 ones are lacking.

You mean the ones with the same price point as Twilight Time?

[octagon]

Originally Posted by Aclea

You mean the ones with the same price point as Twilight Time?

No, barebones Criterions do not sell for the same price as Twilight Time releases. They sell for much lower.

Criterion themselves sell those titles everyday for $24.96 and several times a year they are available for $14.99 during Criterion's flash sales.

Amazon regularly prices barebones Criterions between fifteen and twenty dollars. Barnes and Noble marks barebones Criterions down to $18 during their 40% sales and to $15 during the twice yearly Criterion sales.

So, no. Not the ones with the same price point as Twilight Time.

[themoviefanatic]

Since Criterion distributes and manufactures their own films and decides the MSRP of course, why don't they sell them for the price they are suggesting? I can understand Amazon and other companies not using the price guideline Criterion came up with but Criterion doesn't even use them. I can't think of very many distributors and manufacturers that sell their own products for cheaper then they suggest. It just sounds funny.

[hammer99]

Originally Posted by grundy

I see why you're hammer99; you drop $99+ in your shopping cart with the thunder of Thor's Hammer lol

Now THAT'S a HAUL!!!

I just wanted to make sure I got the autographed Royal Flash & figured that was the safest bet.