Twilight Time Discussion Thread

[Brian81]

Originally Posted by Arkadin

for better or for worse it seems clear TT will continue to be the major source of US based catalog releases of studio classics.
really wish the major US studios would step it up, but at 8 years into the format it feels more and more like a pipe dream with every passing day.
at least they got most of the major classics out is looking like the majors' bd legacy at this point.

The only thing this whole situation makes me think of is the viability of ANY 4K home video format. If the studios aren't really bothered to put titles on BD...

Add to that, stores like Best Buy and shrinking shelf space.

I'm left thinking all the talk about Blu-ray 4K will be meaningless, as no one will support it.

[The Great Owl]

Originally Posted by Brian81

The only thing this whole situation makes me think of is the viability of ANY 4K home video format. If the studios aren't really bothered to put titles on BD...

I expect that we'll see a few older flagship titles (Gone with the Wind, 2001: A Space Odyssey, Lawrence of Arabia, etc.) released on 4K home video. For most older titles, though, the process of making them presentable in high definition on current Blu-rays is already problematic enough.

I'm inclined to think that 4K home video will mostly be a "from today forward" format that will showcase movies made with present-day technology. I can imagine James Cameron's Avatar sequels and the upcoming Marvel superhero flicks making a splash in the format.

[Arkadin]

Originally Posted by The Great Owl

I expect that we'll see a few older flagship titles (Gone with the Wind, 2001: A Space Odyssey, Lawrence of Arabia, etc.) released on 4K home video. For most older titles, though, the process of making them presentable in high definition on current Blu-rays is already problematic enough.

I'm inclined to think that 4K home video will mostly be a "from today forward" format that will showcase movies made with present-day technology. I can imagine James Cameron's Avatar sequels and the upcoming Marvel superhero flicks making a splash in the format.

totally agree with all this.
sadly 4k probably won't have anything to do with the decades when Hollywood made "real" films.

[captveg]

Originally Posted by jetthead

Sadly, I agree. This is especially disturbing because Warner Brothers doesn't seem to want to license out anything and is sitting on so many bona fide classics that may never see the light of day on Blu-ray.

Warner owns something like 6000 feature films. No matter how many they release they will always have a lower % of their titles out when compared to other studios simply because their holdings are so much larger. They still release quite a lot of catalog titles.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by Arkadin

for better or for worse it seems clear TT will continue to be the major source of US based catalog releases of studio classics.
really wish the major US studios would step it up, but at 8 years into the format it feels more and more like a pipe dream with every passing day.
"at least they got most of the major classics out" is looking like the majors' bd legacy at this point.

That's not really true. In 2013, TT put out 29 titles. This includes a range of films from 1939 (Drums Along the Mohawk) through 2000 (Sexy Beast).

Olive Films released 120 titles in 2013, with 3/4 of them being vintage (by which I mean pre-1970) titles.

Fox, which is oddly enough one of TT's licensors, in 2013 released 24 vintage titles, not counting the ones they licensed to TT, nor the ones on the MGM label that they are distributing. If you want to add post-1970 catalog titles, I'm sure it will more than top TT.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by captveg

Warner owns something like 6000 feature films. No matter how many they release they will always have a lower % of their titles out when compared to other studios simply because their holdings are so much larger. They still release quite a lot of catalog titles.

They released 14 pre-1970 titles on Blu-ray in 2013, not counting the ones they distributed for Paramount.

[captveg]

Originally Posted by jayembee

They released 14 pre-1970 titles on Blu-ray in 2013, not counting the ones they distributed for Paramount.

And for a major studio that's pretty good. One has to take into account that Warner released many of their major A-list pre-70s titles in previous years (King Kong, Gone with the Wind, Citizen Kane, Treasure of the Sierra Madre, etc.). Fox may have greatly improved in this area more recently, but Warner was killing them and all other major studios in 2008-2011.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by captveg

And for a major studio that's pretty good. One has to take into account that Warner released many of their major A-list pre-70s titles in previous years (King Kong, Gone with the Wind, Citizen Kane, Treasure of the Sierra Madre, etc.). Fox may have greatly improved in this area more recently, but Warner was killing them and all other major studios in 2008-2011.

Sadly, Warner's output (not including Paramount's films) has declined from previous years. Perhaps about 20% less. They have such a deep vault too, what with the RKO and MGM library to add with theirs.

My hope is that they'll issue some actor-based box sets that they did on DVD. Such as Bette Davis, Judy Garland, Bogart, Spencer Tracy, Clark Gable, etc. The existing masters that they have are in really good shape, so all they need to do is encode. Even if it was from WAC, at least it would be something. Crossing my fingers, and after all we're getting classic TV series like Andy Griffith so why not the box set classics?

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by jayembee

That's not really true. In 2013, TT put out 29 titles. This includes a range of films from 1939 (Drums Along the Mohawk) through 2000 (Sexy Beast).

Olive Films released 120 titles in 2013, with 3/4 of them being vintage (by which I mean pre-1970) titles.

Fox, which is oddly enough one of TT's licensors, in 2013 released 24 vintage titles, not counting the ones they licensed to TT, nor the ones on the MGM label that they are distributing. If you want to add post-1970 catalog titles, I'm sure it will more than top TT.

Fox is really odd in mixing their output from themselves and TT, especially the studio classics. I would have preferred only Fox themselves release the Studio Classics series that they did on DVD, but now we get to mix and match.

[captveg]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

Sadly, Warner's output (not including Paramount's films) has declined from previous years. Perhaps about 20% less. They have such a deep vault too, what with the RKO and MGM library to add with theirs.

My hope is that they'll issue some actor-based box sets that they did on DVD. Such as Bette Davis, Judy Garland, Bogart, Spencer Tracy, Clark Gable, etc. The existing masters that they have are in really good shape, so all they need to do is encode. Even if it was from WAC, at least it would be something. Crossing my fingers, and after all we're getting classic TV series like Andy Griffith so why not the box set classics?

I think you over-estimate the status of the masters for those films. Most of those box sets were released 2001-2005, so many of those masters are probably not up to snuff and would likely need to be redone to meet the standards people expect out of the current blu-ray market.

It's true that Warner has released less pre-70s films the last couple years than before, but their general output remains the same as they've also released a fair amount of post-70s catalog. Every film has its fans, so while I'm not rushing to go buy Next of Kin someone is happy it got a release. And like I said, WB got around to releasing their bigger a-list titles sooner than the other studios, leaving them with films not as easy to market.

The good news is that the major catalog holders (Warner, Sony, Fox, Paramount, MGM) all currently have active 4k remastering programs, with Warner, Sony and Fox being the most productive. The main difference with Warner and the others is they don't like to sublicense (though they did make one exception with Badlands). If they can get the Warner Archive blu-ray program going to have at least one classic catalog title released a month that will basically equal the licensing deals Sony, Fox and MGM have with Twilight Time, so it's really a matter of that part of Warner kicking into gear as opposed to their mainline Warner Home Video releases.

[duggie walker]

For what it's worth - I finally got ZULU, KHARTOUM and THE MAN IN THE DARK today.

I'd say that I instantly preferred the TT ZULU image - which looks far more vibrant in motion (red suits, not orange!) than in the screen caps I've seen - to the UK one, which did always look a bit unnatural to my eyes. Not saying that's the correct assessment - just that it "feels" more correct to me.

PQ on KHARTOUM is just breath-taking. It's releases like these that make me happy TT is around - unfussy presentations of good movies in pristine condition.

I just hope and pray that SOMEONE will release THE PRIVATE LIFE OF SHERLOCK HOLMES.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by captveg

I think you over-estimate the status of the masters for those films. Most of those box sets were released 2001-2005, so many of those masters are probably not up to snuff and would likely need to be redone to meet the standards people expect out of the current blu-ray market.

It's true that Warner has released less pre-70s films the last couple years than before, but their general output remains the same as they've also released a fair amount of post-70s catalog. Every film has its fans, so while I'm not rushing to go buy Next of Kin someone is happy it got a release. And like I said, WB got around to releasing their bigger a-list titles sooner than the other studios, leaving them with films not as easy to market.

The good news is that the major catalog holders (Warner, Sony, Fox, Paramount, MGM) all currently have active 4k remastering programs, with Warner, Sony and Fox being the most productive. The main difference with Warner and the others is they don't like to sublicense (though they did make one exception with Badlands). If they can get the Warner Archive blu-ray program going to have at least one classic catalog title released a month that will basically equal the licensing deals Sony, Fox and MGM have with Twilight Time, so it's really a matter of that part of Warner kicking into gear as opposed to their mainline Warner Home Video releases.

I remember the PQ on the Bette Davis set and most of their other sets being very good. I'm not sure it's cost effective to remaster these for a general Blu-ray release, so my choice would be to have them release them using the existing master than to not release them at all. TT is not doing any remastering either, and neither Fox nor Sony and doing any remastering for them. So the releases should be on par with those of TT and perhaps even better because Warner has kept their material in such good shape.


As for the Warner catalog output, yes including post 70's it is down the last two years form the 2008-2011 years. Last year they released 39 new catalogs on Blu-ray (24 others were from Paramount), not including WAC. They had been releasing about 50 or more. But with most of their tentpoles out, the drop is understandable.

[captveg]

Originally Posted by bruceames.

As for the Warner catalog output, yes including post 70's it is down the last two years form the 2008-2011 years. Last year they released 39 new catalogs on Blu-ray (24 others were from Paramount), not including WAC. They had been releasing about 50 or more. But with most of their tentpoles out, the drop is understandable.

Probably the biggest reason they moved to pick up the Samuel Goldwyn and Paramount distribution deals - more a-list titles to market. as new catalog releases.

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by Aclea

It was shot at 24fps for theatrical release (over 91 minutes in theaters, 88 minutes on VHS with the PAL speedup). Like most Film 4 features, it got a small and unsuccessful theatrical release before its TV broadcast.

Excellent, thanks for the info! I really liked RESURRECTED and am a Greengrass completist, so I'll pick up the BD.

[Hank the Tank]

Originally Posted by iamnoone

But the music in this film is a bit beyond those - just with The Jacksons alone. Try to clear that! Also, much of the music in SNF and TGIF was created for the films themselves, not acquisitions for theatrical only as this one. In any event, it would be great to be proven wrong, as I remember for years there was no way in hell that HEAVY METAL would ever come out intact on homevideo, and it finally did. So there's always a slight chance, but don't hold your breath. And remember, both SNF and TGIF had VHS releases over the years, whereas Skatetown has been MIA completely on homevideo, even with its star appeal, music, and disco revival popularity.

From wikipedia on Skatetown USA:

Among other songs on the soundtrack are the Patrick Hernandez dance hit "Born to Be Alive," "Boogie Wonderland" (Earth, Wind & Fire and The Emotions), "Shake Your Body" (The Jacksons), "Boogie Nights" (Heat Wave), "Baby Hold On" (Eddie Money), "Ain't No Stoppin' Us Now" (McFadden & Whitehead), "I Want You to Want Me" (Cheap Trick), "Roller Girl" (John Sebastian), "Perfect Dancer" (Marilyn McCoo and Billy Davis Jr.) and a cover of Mick Jagger and Keith Richards' "Under My Thumb" by the Hounds.

I see your point. I do think that the SNF soundtrack is at least equal, if not slightly superior to Skatetown USA's soundtrack. But you are correct, Skatetown USA has one killer soundtrack and that could present problems for TT and Sony for a blu-ray release.
One thing bugs me though. All this talk about music rights (here and on other Skatetown USA information sites) and none of it comes directly from Sony/Columbia (who hold Skatetown USA's rights) or anyone connected to the film, particularly the estate of Patrick Swayze (or his widow Lisa Niemi). Seems like a lot of hearsay. Doesn't mean it isn't true though.
Anyway I do hold out some hope that TT could strike a deal for Skatetown USA (and Thank God Its Friday while they're at it). Especially considering what a correctly done transfer (from the original negatives) of this movie would look like on my 70" Vizio.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by captveg

If they can get the Warner Archive blu-ray program going to have at least one classic catalog title released a month that will basically equal the licensing deals Sony, Fox and MGM have with Twilight Time, so it's really a matter of that part of Warner kicking into gear as opposed to their mainline Warner Home Video releases.

I have to say that I'd been leary of Warner Archive and the whole MOD thing. But I took advantage of a sale they were having to order some old RKO titles (Wheeler & Woolsey comedies), and I was rather pleasantly surprised by the result. The overly simplistic menu and lack of extras aside, the quality was as good as I'd expect from a regular DVD.

I can't help thinking that the MOD process makes them more expensive than they should be, but other than that, I'd inclined to support them if they get more things out on Blu-ray. I'm just about ready to pull the trigger and order their post-Weismuller Tarzan sets.

[jrsl76]

Originally Posted by jayembee

I have to say that I'd been leary of Warner Archive and the whole MOD thing. But I took advantage of a sale they were having to order some old RKO titles (Wheeler & Woolsey comedies), and I was rather pleasantly surprised by the result. The overly simplistic menu and lack of extras aside, the quality was as good as I'd expect from a regular DVD.

I can't help thinking that the MOD process makes them more expensive than they should be, but other than that, I'd inclined to support them if they get more things out on Blu-ray. I'm just about ready to pull the trigger and order their post-Weismuller Tarzan sets.

I don't have a lot of them, but I have 2 of the WB Archive Blus (Hudsucker, Fearless) and 2 of the DVDs (Thundarr, Pretty Maids All In A Row). I've been very happy with the quality and am just happy to have them on DVD or Blu and in the case of Fearless, finally in OAR.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by jrsl76

I don't have a lot of them, but I have 2 of the WB Archive Blus (Hudsucker, Fearless) and 2 of the DVDs (Thundarr, Pretty Maids All In A Row). I've been very happy with the quality and am just happy to have them on DVD or Blu and in the case of Fearless, finally in OAR.

Didn't realize that Fearless was a WAC BD. I'll definitely have to order that one (along with Greystoke). I'd kept my old Warner laserdisc around because it was OAR where the DVD was not.

[oildude]

Originally Posted by jayembee

I have to say that I'd been leary of Warner Archive and the whole MOD thing. But I took advantage of a sale they were having to order some old RKO titles (Wheeler & Woolsey comedies), and I was rather pleasantly surprised by the result. The overly simplistic menu and lack of extras aside, the quality was as good as I'd expect from a regular DVD.

I can't help thinking that the MOD process makes them more expensive than they should be, but other than that, I'd inclined to support them if they get more things out on Blu-ray. I'm just about ready to pull the trigger and order their post-Weismuller Tarzan sets.

Ha ha. Ironic to read this in the TT thread.....you could say the same thing about limiting titles to 3000 units for three years.

I am very happy with Warner's MOD program on blu-ray, at least the handfull they have released thus far. I really hope they get that program cranking.

[Kristian Idol]

Originally Posted by oildude

I am very happy with Warner's MOD program on blu-ray ... I really hope they get that program cranking.

+1

Was very happy for Fearless and Hudsucker.