Twilight Time Discussion Thread

[ultlife2013]

Basically a lot of people nowadays are very entitled. Especially when it comes to entertainment being free to consume.

[Brad1963]

Most of TT's releases have been films that would not be huge sellers if distributed the usual channels. Quite a few of them may never sell out (Beloved Infidel, High Time, The Wayward Bus, Midwarp, Desiree....) which is why they decided the 3,000 unit cap. I'm in agreement that quite a few like Christine, Night of the Living Dead, Wild at Heart, Fright Night and such would have been better off distributed in mass market. But the anger should be directed at the studios, not Twilight Time. These titles were picked from a list that the studios were offering to them.

Yes, I agree that Warner (and Universal) still continue to support catalog titles. My issue with Warner is slow pace and releasing them and the endless re-issues.

I'm really fed up with Sony. Kino needs to step in and do the big distribution of titles like they have been with MGM. The Image agreement seems to be over and the Mill Creek flow of Sony Blu rays is very sad. We are left with the 1 a month TT title and occasional Criterion.

[baheidstu]

Originally Posted by atfree

EXACTLY. I was an early critic of TT (thought their model created a false market) but have come to see this as you do. I was not a big collector during the VHS/DVD eras because I thought there would always be the "next" thing in physical media. But a couple of years ago, after I saw the impact the streaming was having on the younger generation AND being shocked that EVERY TT release didn't sell out, I came to the conclusion that catalog titles and physical media just don't resonate with the 18-45 age group overall. And I began collecting BD's of my favorite films, mostly catalog titles, at a rapid pace.

The new majority of consumers are just that, consumers. They consume media in huge amounts and want the convenience of pressing a few buttons on a mouse, touch screen, or remote control and having whatever media they desire (music, movies, books, etc) pop right up.

This generation (and I have 4 kids, ages 13, 14, 17 and 21) also has little sense of anything that occurred or was created before their birth. I was brought up with "old" movies (i.e. 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's) being on TV all the time. Before cable/satellite, local stations has hundreds of hours of programming time to fill each week. As late as the early 1980, local TV stations showed "old" movies late at night, early in the morning, on weekends, plus the networks still showed classics on a pretty regular basis. In the early days of cable, AMC, TBS, WGN, and other outlets showed older films daily.

Now, "old" movies are relegated to TCM and a few niche premium channels, or streaming. Long story short, I have come to believe that BD will be the last, significant form of physical media for "old" movies. No way the studios (or even the niche companies like TT) will put catalog titles on UHD/4k except for the usual suspects like Casablance, GWTW, etc.

I have a retro King Kong T-shirt I wear around the house and my son (9 years old) was asking about it... I asked if he wanted to watch King Kong. He thought it would be the Jackson one, but we ended up watching the original. He was very hesitant because it was old and in black & white, but apart from a few creaky spots in the beginning that drag a bit even for me, he ended up liking it. When he first saw Kong he though it was funny because of the jerky stop-motion movements, but by the end he was enthralled by Kong beating up dinosaurs, smashing trains, etc. When I was a kid I'd see old movies like that all the time on TV but to him it was a whole new world!

[Brad1963]

Originally Posted by atfree

EXACTLY. I was an early critic of TT (thought their model created a false market) but have come to see this as you do. I was not a big collector during the VHS/DVD eras because I thought there would always be the "next" thing in physical media. But a couple of years ago, after I saw the impact the streaming was having on the younger generation AND being shocked that EVERY TT release didn't sell out, I came to the conclusion that catalog titles and physical media just don't resonate with the 18-45 age group overall. And I began collecting BD's of my favorite films, mostly catalog titles, at a rapid pace.

The new majority of consumers are just that, consumers. They consume media in huge amounts and want the convenience of pressing a few buttons on a mouse, touch screen, or remote control and having whatever media they desire (music, movies, books, etc) pop right up.

This generation (and I have 4 kids, ages 13, 14, 17 and 21) also has little sense of anything that occurred or was created before their birth. I was brought up with "old" movies (i.e. 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's) being on TV all the time. Before cable/satellite, local stations has hundreds of hours of programming time to fill each week. As late as the early 1980, local TV stations showed "old" movies late at night, early in the morning, on weekends, plus the networks still showed classics on a pretty regular basis. In the early days of cable, AMC, TBS, WGN, and other outlets showed older films daily.

Now, "old" movies are relegated to TCM and a few niche premium channels, or streaming. Long story short, I have come to believe that BD will be the last, significant form of physical media for "old" movies. No way the studios (or even the niche companies like TT) will put catalog titles on UHD/4k except for the usual suspects like Casablance, GWTW, etc.

Yes, I agree. TT, like Kino, Criterion, Shout and Olive have done a great job with "old" movies. The films I think we truly consider classics. But the target consumers for the most part have no interest in something like The Train or Rapture. I'm pretty sure they would end up not being released on disc at all if TT did not release them.

The studios really went 100% with DVD but just are feeling it to be not worth it anymore with Blu ray/.

[jlk5844]

Originally Posted by atfree

EXACTLY. I was an early critic of TT (thought their model created a false market) but have come to see this as you do. I was not a big collector during the VHS/DVD eras because I thought there would always be the "next" thing in physical media. But a couple of years ago, after I saw the impact the streaming was having on the younger generation AND being shocked that EVERY TT release didn't sell out, I came to the conclusion that catalog titles and physical media just don't resonate with the 18-45 age group overall. And I began collecting BD's of my favorite films, mostly catalog titles, at a rapid pace.

The new majority of consumers are just that, consumers. They consume media in huge amounts and want the convenience of pressing a few buttons on a mouse, touch screen, or remote control and having whatever media they desire (music, movies, books, etc) pop right up.

This generation (and I have 4 kids, ages 13, 14, 17 and 21) also has little sense of anything that occurred or was created before their birth. I was brought up with "old" movies (i.e. 30's, 40's, 50's, 60's) being on TV all the time. Before cable/satellite, local stations has hundreds of hours of programming time to fill each week. As late as the early 1980, local TV stations showed "old" movies late at night, early in the morning, on weekends, plus the networks still showed classics on a pretty regular basis. In the early days of cable, AMC, TBS, WGN, and other outlets showed older films daily.

Now, "old" movies are relegated to TCM and a few niche premium channels, or streaming. Long story short, I have come to believe that BD will be the last, significant form of physical media for "old" movies. No way the studios (or even the niche companies like TT) will put catalog titles on UHD/4k except for the usual suspects like Casablance, GWTW, etc.

Great post. I especially agree with the bolded statement. I'm 19 btw and movies are my life and I have a big lot of DVDs and love collecting Blu-rays, etc. I have come to accept that I am a rare breed among my generation. My brother is a few years younger than me and I have determined that, for the most part, he won't watch anything before 1990. Much of what he watches are new releases, but he's more of a gamer and not big into movies. It's a little saddening to me being a movie buff, but I get it.

I have one friend that I can share my love of movies with, and he has a large collection of DVDs, Blu-rays, memorabilia, and he even collects laserdiscs! How crazy is that?! We don't watch any movies on our computer.

It's just sad that most kids these days seem to reject history and only care about the present or whatever's popular.

[noirjunkie]

Originally Posted by lilboyblu

Fixed
And yes, it's a pretty good transfer. You won't be disappointed.

Oops. Thanks for the correction.

Originally Posted by baheidstu

Some studios seem to be pretty much done, but Warner [...] is bringing out Point Blank, hardly "essentials".

I respectfully disagree. Point Blank is a neo-noir classic.

[Brad1963]

Originally Posted by jayembee

That's not quite true. The studios are still into marketing their catalog titles, and on physical media. Warner, MGM, Fox, Sony, Paramount, and Universal all have MOD programs for making their catalog titles available to people who want them. Or at least, to the people who want them badly enough to find out where and how they can get them. Granted, this is restricted to the DVD format (except for the handful of titles that Warner has done on Blu), but they're there.

It's just that the studios have come to the realization that these are not things that can be effectively marketed to the general consumer. The more shelf space in, say, Best Buy that's taken up with catalog titles, the less space there is for the current/recent hits that are their bread and butter. And that's not even considering the space to warehouse the copies that they haven't sold yet.

They see the move away from physical media as a means to alleviate these problems (not to mention that they believe it gives them greater control over access to their "property"). As much as those of us who hate the idea of moving away from physical media really, really hate it, the plain fact is that we're reaching (if not already reached) the saturation point for physical media. There's only so much air you can pump into a balloon before it pops.

I think the studios do know that there's money to be made from catalog titles. That's why they have those MOD programs in place. The problem is whether they can make enough money from the catalog titles to justify the effort, as well as the impact they will have on the Big Titles.

WB is the only studio offering MOD Blu ray. And they are not really breaking down the doors with them.

I'm pretty sure within the next 2 years most of the catalog title activity (except Warner) will be turned over to others like Kino, TT, Mill Creek and others for distribution. Perhaps Universal will still release catalogs. But nothing like the flow of titles they have been offering.

[baheidstu]

Originally Posted by noirjunkie

Oops. Thanks for the correction.



I respectfully disagree. Point Blank is a neo-noir classic.

I'm not speaking from a critical standpoint. I agree that Point Blank is a classic and it's certainly a must have for my collection. However, for all its merits it's still never going to be a sure-fire moneymaker like Wizard of Oz or Gone With the Wind or any of those other titles that we all buy grandma for her birthday that Warner keeps re-releasing ad infinitum.

[noirjunkie]

Originally Posted by Brad1963

WB is the only studio offering MOD Blu ray.

WB's blu-ray offerings through WAC are pressed, not MOD.

Originally Posted by baheidstu

I'm not speaking from a critical standpoint. I agree that Point Blank is a classic and it's certainly a must have for my collection. However, for all its merits it's still never going to be a sure-fire moneymaker like Wizard of Oz or Gone With the Wind or any of those other titles that we all buy grandma for her birthday that Warner keeps re-releasing ad infinitum.

Agreed.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by Brad1963

The studios really went 100% with DVD but just are feeling it to be not worth it anymore with Blu ray/.

I think that's just a reflection of the consumer base. Consumers went nuts with DVD, but Blu-ray doesn't seem to make that much of an impression on them. The increase in PQ/AQ doesn't seem significant enough for them.

It's like videotape vs laserdisc back in the late 80s/early 90s. There were a number of people that I would "demonstrate" LD to, all of whom could see the difference in quality, and would ooh and aah when I'd pause the picture, and it would be a virtually perfect still. But none of them ever considered actually getting an LD player. VHS was "good enough" for them. And today, a lot of people think DVD is "good enough", and don't need or want Blu-ray.

A lot of consumers were perfectly happy to scrap their VHS tapes and players and convert to DVD. A much smaller percentage want to scrap their DVDs and convert to Blu-ray. So as frustrating as it is, I perfectly understand why the studios don't want to dive headfirst into the Blu-ray pool.

[klauswhereareyou]

I think part of it is that almost everything made it to DVD, that mainstream consumers got a little fatigued once blu-ray came along. Many studios got lazy intially putting out poor transfers with little to no new extras, that by the time they really got off their butts to put out quality it was too late.

[jayembee]

One more point...

Another part of the problem is the general consumer's idea of the advantages of Blu-ray. It's been frustrating when I talk to someone who should know better, but nevertheless believes that Blu-ray is only worthwhile when watching action blockbusters or SF films choking with CGI, and in 8-channel sound. I've even come across people who've asked me why I wanted to upgrade a film like Citizen Kane to Blu-ray, because "It's just an old black & white movie. Isn't the DVD enough?"

And I think the studios sense that that is a prevalent attitude among consumers, and so are reluctant to issue catalog titles in the format.

[Brad1963]

Originally Posted by jayembee

I think that's just a reflection of the consumer base. Consumers went nuts with DVD, but Blu-ray doesn't seem to make that much of an impression on them. The increase in PQ/AQ doesn't seem significant enough for them.

It's like videotape vs laserdisc back in the late 80s/early 90s. There were a number of people that I would "demonstrate" LD to, all of whom could see the difference in quality, and would ooh and aah when I'd pause the picture, and it would be a virtually perfect still. But none of them ever considered actually getting an LD player. VHS was "good enough" for them. And today, a lot of people think DVD is "good enough", and don't need or want Blu-ray.

A lot of consumers were perfectly happy to scrap their VHS tapes and players and convert to DVD. A much smaller percentage want to scrap their DVDs and convert to Blu-ray. So as frustrating as it is, I perfectly understand why the studios don't want to dive headfirst into the Blu-ray pool.

I tend to believe the wasted time spent pushing HD DVD hurt Blu ray. By the time Blu ray had the market by itself people settled into streaming. There is a small group of 'collectors' still but overall the optical disc is not first choice.

A couple weeks ago when I was in Target I was look at the Blu rays. I overheard one guy say to another "You still buying?". His tone sounded like he thought the guy was crazy.

One more issue I have is most people clump DVD and Blu ray together. The Starz Blu rays promo trailers only say 'Coming to DVD', there is never any mention of Blu ray. I'm talking about recent titles like Silver Linings Playbook and My Week with Marilyn. Also a local radio station in L.A. has the weekly Tuesday morning "New on DVD" segment and they never mention Blu ray. I think the general mindset is that discs are not worth it to most, and that Blu ray is really not anything overly special to consumers.

[Blu Titan]

Wow, thought I had made an orderr for Rollerball but it slipped my mind.
How many left of "The Train"...any ideas?

[BluOrbit]

Originally Posted by jayembee

Scofield also stars in the even better 1967 Best Picture winner, A Man for All Seasons (for which Scofield also won Best Actor). And A Man for All Seasons is a far more likely candidate for a Twilight Time release, given that it's a Sony-distributed title (Quiz Show is owned by Disney).

The biggest problem I have with Quiz Show is Rob Morrow's attempt at a Bostonian accent. Very few people in Boston (even back in the 1950s) actually sound like one of the Kennedys.

FYI, A Man For All Seasons was the 1966 Best Picture and Actor winner.

[Elvis]

Originally Posted by Brad1963

The studios are pretty much done with catalog titles, other than what are consider essentials (Jaws, Wizard of Oz, Godfather, Star Wars etc.). There is no profit in releasing lower tier titles, so essentially it is up to the Indies like TT, Olive, Kino, Shout, Image, Criterion etc to picku up the slack. I know for a fact that Twilight Time is shocked by its success. They started the company in hopes of releasing the titles the studios may otherwise neglect. It was done for collectors and not the mass public. Perhaps they may change their structure. The recent upgrade to 5,000 units of The Blob indicates they are flexible about their overall plan. But in the meantime, just take it all in and enjoy. This may be the last time you will own any of these titles on physical media.

Then when are they going to be getting better catalog titles? I mean really? There are so many higher quality films that the studio's dont release yet I don't see them on TT or the others release list. I mean where is Hooper? Where is The Remains of the Day (Region 1), Murder By Death? Love Affair? Under the Rainbow? I mean where are these films at? The bigger catalog titles....are they caught in the middle? Not big enough sellers to release but not junk enough for us to have someone else do it?

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by BluOrbit

FYI, A Man For All Seasons was the 1966 Best Picture and Actor winner.

I was going by the year the award was given out.

[Brad1963]

Originally Posted by Elvis

Then when are they going to be getting better catalog titles? I mean really? There are so many higher quality films that the studio's dont release yet I don't see them on TT or the others release list. I mean where is Hooper? Where is The Remains of the Day (Region 1), Murder By Death? Love Affair? Under the Rainbow? I mean where are these films at? The bigger catalog titles....are they caught in the middle? Not big enough sellers to release but not junk enough for us to have someone else do it?

The Train, The Mechanic, Heaven Knows Mr. Allison and The Man from Laramie seem pretty big to me. But that is my opinion. I think Twilight Time has really stepped up this year. It has been their best year yet.

[KyotoKid]

Anyone have an idea of how long an order can take to complete? I purchased The Train and Man From Laramie on the 21st and was just wondering as they have always managed to send items in stock within 2 or 3 days. I have to assume they are quite busy - guess I am curious!

[NoirFan]

Originally Posted by Brad1963

I think Twilight Time has really stepped up this year. It has been their best year yet.

Plus they now seem to be porting DVD extras pretty consistently, as well as creating new ones in the form of commentary tracks. Now if only they'd introduce some sort of free shipping option on, say, orders over $100. (Or at least $150.)