Twilight Time Discussion Thread

[Twilight Time]

THE DOGS OF WAR (1980).
Includes both
The International Cut (119 minutes)
The U.S. Theatrical Cut (104 minutes)

[Akijama]

Originally Posted by krasnoludek

WOW! That's instantly gone to the top of my favorite covers from them. Great artwork!

I've never seen this movie, but the cover art is indeed great.

Great news on both cuts too.

[Blu Titan]

Originally Posted by belcherman

Isn't there a separate thread for discussion of Blu Ray economics and the viability of physical media? If not there should be.

There are dozens such threads. Hopefully, we can start discussing the label's output once again .

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by Akijama

Special Features: Isolated Score Track / Original Theatrical Trailer

Pre-order date: Wednesday, August 20th at 4 pm EST.

damn, that's a sweet looking cover... I may well have to pick up that one

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by popeflick

Studios are currently doing VERY well with what Netflix is paying them right now. A basic search using the Google Machine will demonstrate that. Also, these agreements don't cover "an entire catalog" by a long shot.

Not true. There are a few major studios that have signed deals giving them something in return that they believe is a good alternative for the lost DVD revenue. The majors are not the market.

Pro-B

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by StingingVelvet

Exactly.

Blu ray sales are greatly boosted by new release blockbusters. Catalog sales are terrible according to every news item I have read on the subject. Thus the studios are going to show less and less interest in catalog releases as time goes by. Honestly though this can often mean the dedicated niche audience gets a better product, like Criterion Laserdiscs back in the day. It also means we're going to be paying a lot for it, though.

What are these news items you are referring to? Sales can be "terrible" only in relation to how DVD sold over a fixed period of time. And that's where the problem comes for some of the studios:

Catalog titles sell and quite well at that, but the 'problem' is that they don't sell as fast as DVD did. Additionally, the consumer is much more demanding/selective nowadays. During the DVD era, the studios could dump any transfer on a DVD and there would be guaranteed sales. This isn't the case anymore. People demand quality for catalog titles. And quality requires investments, which coupled with the fact that sales are not as rapid as they were makes some studios reluctant to invest.

The catalog market, especially for Blu-ray titles, is alive and well. In fact, there are so many great catalog titles released on Blu-ray that I personally have a harder time keeping up than I did back during the DVD era.

Pro-B

[popeflick]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

What are these news items you are referring to? Sales can be "terrible" only in relation to how DVD sold over a fixed period of time. And that's where the problem comes for some of the studios:

Catalog titles sell and quite well at that, but the 'problem' is that they don't sell as fast as DVD did. Additionally, the consumer is much more demanding/selective nowadays. During the DVD era, the studios could dump any transfer on a DVD and there would be guaranteed sales. This isn't the case anymore. People demand quality for catalog titles. And quality requires investments, which coupled with the fact that sales are not as rapid as they were makes some studios reluctant to invest.

The catalog market, especially for Blu-ray titles, is alive and well. In fact, there are so many great catalog titles released on Blu-ray that I personally have a harder time keeping up than I did back during the DVD era.

Pro-B

No they aren't alive and well. If that's the case please provide a link. Many indicators out there basically state a blu ray catalog title will have a hard time selling through 10k units.

Not to mention you clearly contradict yourself: you say they're fine yet you cite their reluctance to invest in the market. You can't have it both ways.

And the money many studios are getting from streaming deals - not just netflix - is substantial right now. Not sure how you have a different take on it.

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by popeflick

No they aren't alive and well. If that's the case please provide a link. Many indicators out there basically state a blu ray catalog title will have a hard time selling through 10k units.

1. Provide a link to what? An article stating that catalog sales are fine? You only need to look at the total number of catalog titles released each year since Blu-ray won the format war. Also, I communicate directly with quite a few studios and I can tell you for a fact that they are doing quite well. One studio, in particular, had its best catalog year last year (DVD era sales included).

2. You don't need to sell 10 000 units to be successful. An average of 5000 units is a very good number for a catalog release. A spread of an average of 3500 units is also good. Again, the issue some distributors have is how fast some catalog titles would sell.

Originally Posted by popeflick

Not to mention you clearly contradict yourself: you say they're fine yet you cite their reluctance to invest in the market. You can't have it both ways.

I am most definitely not. The reluctance comes from certain major studios. The ones that have been willing to invest and created new transfers/masters have been doing quite well. Two boutique studios I communicate with directly have been very happy with their catalog sales.

Originally Posted by popeflick

And the money many studios are getting from streaming deals - not just netflix - is substantial right now. Not sure how you have a different take on it.

Not many studios, some studios. Big difference. The catalog market is a lot more diverse now, but activity is most definitely fine.

And one last point: Perhaps the biggest erosion in terms of DVD sales has been in the specialty catalog, which has been vastly underrepresented on Blu-ray for a variety of different reasons. This isn't the same as simply selling 'catalog titles', which many market observers fail to mention in their reports.

Pro-B

[Aclea]

Originally Posted by Akijama

Ah yes, that brief period when the major studios were trying to sell Christopher Walken as a traditional leading man and action hero rather than their go-to-guy for sinister ****ers in supporting roles. How long ago it all seems.

Great news on both cuts, too. The Longer international cut is definitely the better option, and hopefully it won't have the synch problems of MGM/UA's DVD.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

Catalog titles sell and quite well at that, but the 'problem' is that they don't sell as fast as DVD did. Additionally, the consumer is much more demanding/selective nowadays.

Not to mention less affluent. Or at least more concerned with saving their money rather than spending it.[/QUOTE]

[MikeZ.]

Never saw Dogs Of War, thanks for the tip. Gonna watch on Amazon Prime video for "free," since I just renewed for the old rate of $79.

Edit : Yes ! Thank you ! JoBeth Williams !!!!

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by MikeZ.

Never saw Dogs Of War, thanks for the tip. Gonna watch on Amazon Prime video for "free," since I just renewed for the old rate of $79.

it's a very entertaining movie, that's for sure.

[jayembee]

Originally Posted by wormraper

it's a very entertaining movie, that's for sure.

Quite frankly, I found it dull. Then again, I haven't seen it since its initial release. I can't think of any John Irvin film I've seen that I thought was worth seeing a second time (one high notable exception: the TV mini-series of Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy).

I'd say that I would be almost tempted just to see if the International Cut made it worth seeing again, but I have too many other titles on my wish list.

[wormraper]

Originally Posted by jayembee

Quite frankly, I found it dull. Then again, I haven't seen it since its initial release. I can't think of any John Irvin film I've seen that I thought was worth seeing a second time (one high notable exception: the TV mini-series of Tinker, Tailor, Soldier, Spy).

I'd say that I would be almost tempted just to see if the International Cut made it worth seeing again, but I have too many other titles on my wish list.

I'll agree that it's definitely not your standard faire movie... that's for sure. but then again, I like some pretty eclectic films lol

[Tom Monahan]

Originally Posted by Yojimbo

I had two orders, one with the free Brannigan and one without. My second one without Brannigan has shipped so far, and that was placed eight days later.

My pre-order includes Brannigan as well and is still pending.

Tom

[spawningblue]

Originally Posted by pro-bassoonist

Not true. There are a few major studios that have signed deals giving them something in return that they believe is a good alternative for the lost DVD revenue. The majors are not the market.

Pro-B

Exactly. Studios are happy with what Netflix is paying them because it's just another avenue of revenue. I guarantee they are making less from Netflix than they were from selling DVDs at their peak, or from rental stores back in the day. If it ever got to the point where studios only made money for a movie from the theatre and than Netflix, they probably wouldn't be so happy with their payout.

Netflix charges people $8 a month for thousands of movies and TV shows at their fingertips, with no revenue from advertisements. There's only so much money they can throw around when it is divided across several studios and still make a profit. When you have a film like Frozen sell millions of DVDs/ Blu-rays compared to a small percentage that Disney would get from Netflix for a huge chunk of their catalog, you can guarantee the payout isn't as comparable and studios will want more once they are no longer getting the money from rental stores and retail sales. The payout from Netflix will no longer be enough, thus Netflix will have to increase their cost, as will Internet providers who are no longer making as much from cable, who is no longer getting as much from advertisements, etc.

It's all one big chain and once revenue from one of the links disappears they will find other ways of getting it from us. If people think they will just be able to go from spending thousands of dollars a year on entertainment to a couple hundred and studios will be happy with that, they are dreaming. Netflix will and already has replaced rental stores, it will be quite some time before it replaces home media. I guarantee digital sales are not even close to the sales brought in from DVDs/Blu-rays, as it will be a long time before people want to pay $25 to buy a digital copy of a film.

[Brad1963]

There is still a big "collectors" market for Blu ray and DVD. Twilight Time and Shout Factory have both indicated how happy they are with sales. I would guess that Kino will end up reporting positive figures for the Studio Collection they just initiated. In addition Criterion's stand alone DVD sales are strong enough for them to go back to separating formats. There is no question that mass appeal of catalog titles has slowed down, but I think it is a long way from being extinct.

[Jaymole]

Originally Posted by Brad1963

There is still a big "collectors" market for Blu ray and DVD. Twilight Time and Shout Factory have both indicated how happy they are with sales. I would guess that Kino will end up reporting positive figures for the Studio Collection they just initiated. In addition Criterion's stand alone DVD sales are strong enough for them to go back to separating formats. There is no question that mass appeal of catalog titles has slowed down, but I think it is a long way from being extinct.

I agree

I don't see physical media disappearing in our lifetime, at worst, it will just become a niche like LPs.

[bruceames]

Originally Posted by Brad1963

There is still a big "collectors" market for Blu ray and DVD. Twilight Time and Shout Factory have both indicated how happy they are with sales. I would guess that Kino will end up reporting positive figures for the Studio Collection they just initiated. In addition Criterion's stand alone DVD sales are strong enough for them to go back to separating formats. There is no question that mass appeal of catalog titles has slowed down, but I think it is a long way from being extinct.

I agree. The collectors are what will keep physical catalog from ever dying off, as they are numerous enough and will pay a high enough premium to make it viable. Let's face it, most people don't by TT movies because they think they'll get their money's worth from replay value. Even at a $5.00 rental, you'd have to watch the movie 6 times to break even.

They buy it because it's limited, it's high quality, and because it holds its value well. The "collector" in me it geared toward prioritizing my purchases on titles from distributors that hold their value reasonably well (not to mention buying movies I'm interested in before they go OOP).

That's why it'll be interesting to see how well the value will hold on the those original TT titles that have later reissues, especially in light that they'll be packing more extras.

[MikeZ.]

I buy them because they're high quality, and I deserve the best.
I may not watch one, or all of them a second time, but I don't care. They're there if I reach for them.
Future value ? I doubt anyone buying them from my son is going to have to pay more than a few bucks. ALL of it will be profit for him. We've discussed this at length. I just hope the buyers appreciate what's in my collection, and walk away just as happy to have that particular Blu ray, CD, DVD, record, whatever, as I was when I first bought it.
Sure I watched Dogs Of War on Amazon streaming last night, because I already paid for Prime. I saved $34.30 doing so. But Killer Elite is a Robert Duvall, and those deserve a physical disc I can reach for.