Twilight Time Discussion Thread

[HDMe]

Originally Posted by Seymour

Not really. If Best Buy had an exclusive Paramount BD, and they messed up your order, you wouldn't blame Paramount.

Two answers...

#1 Not a good example, because it is probably not going to stay a Best Buy exclusive... so not exactly the same as the Twilight Time/SAE comparison.

#2 That said... yes, actually I would be mad at Paramount. IF the only way/place for me to buy the movie was Best Buy, then that was a Paramount decision right? So... I'd first blame Best Buy (just like I'd first blame SAE)... but I would next blame Paramount.

This is not a Twilight-Time bashing statement... it's just facts. IF they only sell through SAE, and SAE messes up an order and frustrates a customer... then that customer is going to not like Twilight Time either. I mean, it isn't like he can call up Twilight Time and have them fix it can he? Won't Twilight Time pass the buck to SAE?

Then that customer tells his friends what a hassle it is... and his friends don't want to buy at SAE either... and that means potential lost sales for Twilight Time.

Let me flip it around.

IF I'm Twilight Time... and my sole distributor is SAE... then I want SAE representing me in a positive way. IF customers who buy my product are unhappy with SAE service... then SAE is going to hear from me about that.

Frankly, I bet Twilight Time sees this the same way... and if they hear of customer dissatisfaction like this... I bet they do try and reach out to make the customer happy rather than leaving them to stew over it.

[Seymour]

Originally Posted by HDMe

Two answers...

#1 Not a good example, because it is probably not going to stay a Best Buy exclusive... so not exactly the same as the Twilight Time/SAE comparison.

#2 That said... yes, actually I would be mad at Paramount. IF the only way/place for me to buy the movie was Best Buy, then that was a Paramount decision right? So... I'd first blame Best Buy (just like I'd first blame SAE)... but I would next blame Paramount.

1. Why would it matter how long the BD is exclusive? For comparion's sake, as long as it's a Best Buy exclusive, Best Buy is the only place you can buy the BD. And some movies have stayed Best Buy exclusive permanently (The Score, The Firm).

2. If I order a BD from bestbuy.com, and subsequently have a problem with my order, why on Earth would I blame the studio? Seriously, they send you the wrong movie or charge you twice, and you blame Paramount? I doubt it. Instead, you'd contact bestbuy.com to get the matter resolved.

[HDMe]

Originally Posted by Seymour

1. Why would it matter how long the BD is exclusive? For comparion's sake, as long as it's a Best Buy exclusive, Best Buy is the only place you can buy the BD. And some movies have stayed Best Buy exclusive permanently (The Score, The Firm).

2. If I order a BD from bestbuy.com, and subsequently have a problem with my order, why on Earth would I blame the studio? Seriously, they send you the wrong movie or charge you twice, and you blame Paramount? I doubt it. Instead, you'd contact bestbuy.com to get the matter resolved.

Your comparisons are just not correct.

I don't have to buy my movies at Best Buy or Best Buy.com I can wait and buy them elsewhere.

Twilight Time has a 3-year license, and only sells through SAE... Again, I guarantee you Twilight Time sees this as I do... and if they hear about a customer being treated unsatisfactorily by SAE, I bet you Twilight Time would act to make things right.

I would be mad with SAE... but as the sole-retailer, Twilight has to bear some responsibility too.

If I go to a restaurant and get bad service, that might be a bad waitress/waiter. If I go to the same restaurant and continue to get bad service... then it indicates a problem with management and perhaps ownership as well.

The coach gets fired when the team loses, even though the coach can't suit up and run the plays!

The CSR takes your order, but don't you blame the company for putting that CSR on the phone to take your order?

If your logic is not to blame Twilight Time... then you can't blame SAE either... you can only blame the actual person who screwed up your order... maybe it was a guy in shipping... but that guy represents SAE just like SAE represents Twilight Time.

[Seymour]

Originally Posted by HDMe

Your comparisons are just not correct.

I don't have to buy my movies at Best Buy or Best Buy.com I can wait and buy them elsewhere.

Twilight Time has a 3-year license, and only sells through SAE... Again, I guarantee you Twilight Time sees this as I do... and if they hear about a customer being treated unsatisfactorily by SAE, I bet you Twilight Time would act to make things right.

I would be mad with SAE... but as the sole-retailer, Twilight has to bear some responsibility too.

If I go to a restaurant and get bad service, that might be a bad waitress/waiter. If I go to the same restaurant and continue to get bad service... then it indicates a problem with management and perhaps ownership as well.

The coach gets fired when the team loses, even though the coach can't suit up and run the plays!

The CSR takes your order, but don't you blame the company for putting that CSR on the phone to take your order?

If your logic is not to blame Twilight Time... then you can't blame SAE either... you can only blame the actual person who screwed up your order... maybe it was a guy in shipping... but that guy represents SAE just like SAE represents Twilight Time.

My question is, has SAE even screwed up one of your orders? I've ordered 3 TT blu-rays from them, and I've had zero problems. I haven't really heard any grumblings about them, except for issues when the site was unresponsive due to heavy traffic.

And I stand by my initial point: SAE and TT are not one in the same.

[oildude]

Monty Python - Argument Clinic - YouTube

[octagon]

Originally Posted by BasicGreatGuy

I just don't see the mindset of "I don't like how you run your company and the prices you charge, but, please take my money anyway," as being logical.

So it wouldn't be logical to criticize oil companies and buy gasoline? Interesting.

What about ballgames? Is it okay for people who criticize the way a team is run to buy tickets or is that 'illogical' too?

[HDMe]

Originally Posted by Seymour

My question is, has SAE even screwed up one of your orders? I've ordered 3 TT blu-rays from them, and I've had zero problems. I haven't really heard any grumblings about them, except for issues when the site was unresponsive due to heavy traffic.

And I stand by my initial point: SAE and TT are not one in the same.

I've never ordered from SAE... My initial response was in support of someone who posted about having a problem with an order. You should probably ask him (or her, I can't remember now) how the experience was resolved and if that was the only time he had ever had a problem with a SAE order.

Also, nobody has said SAE and Twilight are one in the same. They are two different companies. But Twilight Time does have an exclusive distribution deal with SAE.

Consider... IF Twilight Time buys a movie from Sony to release... and Sony does the transfer... wouldn't you blame Sony as much as Twilight Time if you find the Blu-ray release to be poor quality? I would. I would blame Sony for the poor transfer and Twilight Time for accepting it.

Similarly... if SAE messes up an order, I would blame SAE and Twilight Time for the problems.

Nobody ever said they were the same company.

[#Darren]

Well said. That little scare tactic they use to get an extra 15 bucks (which no other supplier I have ever used employs) is just cheap and nasty. And if no one complains, how the heck will it ever get resolved. Maybe TT does care.

And as a paying customer I sure as heck have a right to air my feelings.

But some here would rather these issues are kept hush hush...

Originally Posted by HDMe

IF I'm Twilight Time... and my sole distributor is SAE... then I want SAE representing me in a positive way. IF customers who buy my product are unhappy with SAE service... then SAE is going to hear from me about that.

Frankly, I bet Twilight Time sees this the same way... and if they hear of customer dissatisfaction like this... I bet they do try and reach out to make the customer happy rather than leaving them to stew over it.

[#Darren]

Exactly.

Originally Posted by Dex Robinson

When we deal with a monopoly, we do what we have do do if we are movie fans.

[#Darren]

Yep, I really would rather not support big ugly corporations, but I love having the ability to drive to work.

Same with the BD's. I particularly wanted those Jimmy Stewart, William Holden and Glenn Ford/Gloria Grahame films! I shelled out under pressure

Originally Posted by octagon

So it wouldn't be logical to criticize oil companies and buy gasoline? Interesting.

What about ballgames? Is it okay for people who criticize the way a team is run to buy tickets or is that 'illogical' too?

[Seymour]

Originally Posted by HDMe

I've never ordered from SAE... My initial response was in support of someone who posted about having a problem with an order. You should probably ask him (or her, I can't remember now) how the experience was resolved and if that was the only time he had ever had a problem with a SAE order.

Also, nobody has said SAE and Twilight are one in the same. They are two different companies. But Twilight Time does have an exclusive distribution deal with SAE.

Consider... IF Twilight Time buys a movie from Sony to release... and Sony does the transfer... wouldn't you blame Sony as much as Twilight Time if you find the Blu-ray release to be poor quality? I would. I would blame Sony for the poor transfer and Twilight Time for accepting it.

Similarly... if SAE messes up an order, I would blame SAE and Twilight Time for the problems.

Nobody ever said they were the same company.

That guy was just complaining about SAE offering to insure the order for an extra charge (because it's being shipped outside the US). It's not a mandatory shipping fee, so really, he doesn't even have a valid complaint.

And again, shipping costs really have nothing to do Twilight Time. But regarding your example--yes, Sony would be to blame for foisting off a shoddy transfer. Furthermore, Sony is to blame for choosing TT as a label to license titles to.

[BJQ1972]

Originally Posted by Seymour

That guy was just complaining about SAE offering to insure the order for an extra charge (because it's being shipped outside the US). It's not a mandatory shipping fee, so really, he doesn't even have a valid complaint.

And again, shipping costs really have nothing to do Twilight Time. But regarding your example--yes, Sony would be to blame for foisting off a shoddy transfer. Furthermore, Sony is to blame for choosing TT as a label to license titles to.

I think every other online store I've used that offers insurance does not post a warning about parcels going missing to my country. They simply offer the insurance.

It it a clear case of mis-selling designed to make the overcautious pay an extra 10 quid for no reason.

[#Darren]

Originally Posted by Seymour

That guy was just complaining about SAE offering to insure the order for an extra charge (because it's being shipped outside the US). It's not a mandatory shipping fee, so really, he doesn't even have a valid complaint.

I have had goods shipped from all over the world. In the case of DVD and BD for the past decade. EVERY company I have bought from includes coverage for items lost in the mail in their standard charges.

I have had several cases of damaged disks honoured (never even once had to return the item). Never had an item go missing, EVER.

So please explain how this 15 bucks for EXTRA insurance on top of their standard shipping fees is reasonable?

[#Darren]

Sadly, I think it is. Had I made a smaller order I would have ignored it. But I had 8 BD's in the order, and the risk of their not honouring the purchase if something went wrong was a bit scary.

Originally Posted by BJQ1972

It it a clear case of mis-selling designed to make the overcautious pay an extra 10 quid for no reason.

[cjamescook]

Once upon a time, dealing with shipments that were "lost in the mail" was a "cost of doing business". It was up there with paying taxes, franchise fees, and accidental breakage from customer bumping merchandise off a display onto the floor.

Well, in this modern age, your cable company bill contains a "franchise fee" charge, your phone company passes along the taxes they pay on their property, and Screen Archives charges you "insurance" to replace lost merchandise. At least the charge from Screen Archives is optional.

Welcome to business in 2012.

[rdodolak]

Originally Posted by Seymour

... But regarding your example--yes, Sony would be to blame for foisting off a shoddy transfer. Furthermore, Sony is to blame for choosing TT as a label to license titles to.

Similarly, if the transfer is of great quality people should be praising Sony but then again that's not how it usually works.

[pro-bassoonist]

Originally Posted by Seymour

Not really. If Best Buy had an exclusive Paramount BD, and they messed up your order, you wouldn't blame Paramount.

Yes, I would not criticize Paramount.

The big difference here, which you failed to see, is that TT isn't Paramount. They don't own the content. Paramount does. TT is essentially a middle man which has managed to lock some titles in a monopoly deal, for a fixed period of time. And Best Buy exclusives are sold in many stores, plus online, not through a single website.

Originally Posted by Seymour

1. Why would it matter how long the BD is exclusive? For comparion's sake, as long as it's a Best Buy exclusive, Best Buy is the only place you can buy the BD. And some movies have stayed Best Buy exclusive permanently (The Score, The Firm).

This isn't true either. There are sites that will sell Best Buy exclusives at virtually the exact same price/tax they could be had in store. Of course, these exclusives are not 35$+.

To sum it all up, if one is interested in any of these monopolized titles, then regardless of how one feels about TT's business model, one is left with no other option but to do what #Darren did. Which by the way is what I've done with some of their titles.

Pro-B

[HDMe]

Originally Posted by cjamescook

Once upon a time, dealing with shipments that were "lost in the mail" was a "cost of doing business". It was up there with paying taxes, franchise fees, and accidental breakage from customer bumping merchandise off a display onto the floor.

Well, in this modern age, your cable company charges you a "franchise fee", your phone company passes along the taxes they pay on their property, and Screen Archives charges you "insurance" to replace lost merchandise.

Welcome to business in 2012.

Yeah... I don't know what happened there. Time used to be that if you ordered something, you would get it OR you would get a refund or replacement.

Of course we also have dishonest customers too... you probably know somebody who will say "I didn't get that, give me a refund" when they actually got the package and just want something for free.

So companies then start to back away too... and want to charge for insurance. To me... I get that they want to pass some of that charge on to me... but as a business, they should be rolling that insurance into their cost of doing business... so basically the price of their merchandise should already reflect that kind of expense.

From the other side... if I send something, I have an obligation to make sure you get it. So, I should insure it and send it via delivery confirmation of some sort so I can know that you got it.

If you don't get it, then I can file a claim... and meanwhile I can replace your lost item.

I don't like the "tough luck, you take the risk when you order from me" approach of some companies. I'm not saying that is SAE here... but some companies definitely do try and push responsibility off like that.

The thing is... it doesn't work the other way around. You can't wait until you get your movie and then say "I mailed your check, so too bad if you didn't get it."

[ROclockCK]

...so far, we've only had 2 TT Blu-rays with commentaries*, but both have been doozies (for The Egyptian, and now The Wayward Bus). I'm not even sure why one was prepared for The Wayward Bus or how long ago it was put together by film historians Alain Silver and James Ursini. I mean, it's not like Fox had any plans to release this title on either Blu-ray or DVD...or did they, once upon a time?

Anyhoooo...I thought the commentary provided wonderful background for this rather oddball/intriguing movie...very insightful, yet candid about the forces shaping its pre-prod, prod, and post-prod. Although I'm not usually a fan of disc commentary, I welcomed it here because there was just so little to be found via general 'Net search about this obscure CinemaScope title.

* We'll be getting a 3rd one this month with the release of Those Magnificent Men...

[Tom Monahan]

I've been trying to place an order on screen archives website but haven't been able to access it for days. Anyone else having this problem?

Thanks,
Tom