Twilight Time Discussion Thread

[Blu Titan]

Originally Posted by Fanboyz

Nobody wants these 50's movies, Fright Night was their golden goose.
That sounds mean, but it's true. They will never sell out of anything ever again because the demand is nonexistent.

Film lovers want them . I am sure you an an expert on demand for movies and your comments are sure to be true.

[arcadeforest]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

That Quo Vadis Blu is one of the best home video bargains out there right now arcadeforest. Be sure to check out the special features - some very interesting retrospective views on Quo Vadis from some surprising modern day fans (e.g. Scorcese).

I haven't seen Demetrius and the Gladiators since its first, rather unremarkably transferred DVD release. So even if this TT Blu is not exactly a "blind buy" for me, I'm sure I've forgotten enough about it to freshen the experience. As I recall, it was a good to very good movie, just very different than The Robe in 'emphasis' and 'tone'...more action spectacle than internal religious struggle. In full 2.55:1 'Scope* it should be a stunner on Blu.

* remastered by the same Fox team who did such exceptional work on The Robe and The Egyptian.

Yes, I'm looking forward to watching Quo Vadis - just need to find a 3 hour block without interruptions to give it a watch .

[Mr. Movie Fan]

Originally Posted by Blu Titan

Film lovers want them . I am sure you an an expert on demand for movies and your comments are sure to be true.

I want their films. But even amongst us the demand isn't very high I imagine.

[retablo]

Originally Posted by Fanboyz

Nobody wants these 50's movies, Fright Night was their golden goose.
That sounds mean, but it's true. They will never sell out of anything ever again because the demand is nonexistent.

That's a pretty confident statement, especially since you don't know what else they might be releasing in the future.

[Yankees0222]

Originally Posted by Fanboyz

I want their films. But even amongst us the demand isn't very high I imagine.

But 3000 copies of a movie is a really small amount. Even within a niche community, I'm sure some of the titles will sell out in time. Especially if it's a sequel of much wider release (aka the robe)

The real reason these titles dont sell out sooner is because most people are not aware that these films even exist on blu ray. There's absolutely no marketing for them. I mean, if I didn't frequent these forums, I wouldn't know about them either....

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by Joe Dalek

Has there been any further mention of Fritz Lang's The Big Heat? I heard it had been rumored or announced as a forthcoming release.

Last I heard Joe - and even this was speculation - May/June/July timeframe. All TT has said about The Big Heat so far is "sometime in 2012".

But with TT doing 1 Fox and 1 SPHE title per month, and the Columbia/Novak series ending in April...well...

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by Yankees0222

But 3000 copies of a movie is a really small amount. Even within a niche community, I'm sure some of the titles will sell out in time. Especially if it's a sequel of much wider release (aka the robe).

Absolutely! 3000 of anything on home video will eventually sell out...even an Eddie Murphy fat suit comedy. Especially if the quality is high and there are no Region restrictions.

Heck, there are Anchor Bay, Image Entertainment, and Fox/Lorber catalogue DVDs from the turn of the millennium (in DVD years, the equivalent of the Pleistocene era), which were done in runs of 25,000 that sold out and still haven't been redone, even after the rights reverted to the home studio (e.g. Ruckus, The Seven-Percent Solution, They Might Be Giants, The Littlest Horse Thieves, and Montenegro, just to name a few off the top). 3000 discs is next to nothing in global home video terms...hardly a decent test pressing/promo run for review and distributor-onboarding.

Originally Posted by Yankees0222

The real reason these titles dont sell out sooner is because most people are not aware that these films even exist on blu ray. There's absolutely no marketing for them. I mean, if I didn't frequent these forums, I wouldn't know about them either....

Sure. But you also have to factor in how long Twilight Time has been at this. Last July was their first Blu-ray release, followed by another in October, then 2 more in December (one being a shot across the bow for label awareness), and just 2 per month since. By any reasonable measure, this authoring house and Blu-ray series are still really, really new.

So to Fanboyz, here's an invitation: "Let's have this conversation again in about a year or so." My gut tells me you're going to be surprised by how many of these limited TT Blu's of "old 50s movies that no one wants" will not only have sold out, but also become highly sought after by collectors worldwide...for both their vintage movie content and exceptional quality. As I said so many times on the Fright Night board, we have a considerable advantage here in terms of shared community information - a privilege not every consumer can claim. We're actually watching this little experiment in collector-focused, micro-targeted, and virally-Marketed Blu-ray distribution play out in real time. Once word gets around that it's either TT or nothing for most of these titles on Blu-ray, then you just watch the action...

[benbess]

ROclockCK: Good posts! Thanks.

And I decided I would kick myself if I missed out on some of these, and so I "bit the bullet" and got that one plus Demetrius.

I'm undecided on Rapture. Is Rapture really depressing? Does she die in the end? Is there a rape? I'm just not sure I want to see something like that. Any chance someone would post a very quick plot summary with spoilers under a hidden window. I do like Ingmar Bergman, and have for many years, but I'm not sure if I'm up for this one...

Pal Joey I also can't decide about.

New topic.

So, TT has access to some of the films of 20th Century Fox and Columbia/Sony, right?

How about just for fun we brainstorm about other possible titles that might be considered by TT. What I'm thinking about is not just to list a title, but to say in a sentence or two why it might be worthy.

I realize most of these suggestions won't be practical for a variety of reasons. But we can dream, can't we? The biggest thing TT needs is a good high rez transfer already sitting in the digital assets vault of one of these studios. And so if the films haven't already been scanned and restored, probably it's no dice...

I'll start.

What about the 20th Century Fox movie The Rains Came (1939) starring Tyrone Power and Myrna Loy. This was, for its time, quite an epic and ambitious production in all sorts of ways. It's set in India, and is about a romance between an Indian doctor and a British woman. But it's also about politics, religion, philosophy of life, etc. And, as a backdrop, there's a gigantic disaster right in the middle of it. This film had a huge for the time budget of c. 2.5 million. The special effects are impressive even today, and in fact it won an Oscar for them. It's a guilty pleasure kind of film, I know, but taken for what it is I have enjoyed it. I saw it on tv 20 years ago, and again last year.

And for a real wild thought, how about this--make it a double bill with the widescreen remake from 1955 from Fox called The Rains of Ranchipur, starring Lana Turner, Richard Burton, and Fred McMurray. I've never even seen or heard of this one until I looked up the original just now. Here are the tech specs from imdb:

The Rains of Ranchipur (1955) More at IMDbPro »
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Camera
Bausch & Lomb Lenses

Film negative format (mm/video inches)
35 mm

Cinematographic process
CinemaScope

Printed film format
35 mm

Aspect ratio
2.55 : 1

Has anyone here seen either of these?

And so now on to more suggestions from the rest of you from the Fox and Columbia catalogs...

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by benbess

I'm undecided on Rapture. Is Rapture really depressing? Does she die in the end? Is there a rape? I'm just not sure I want to see something like that. Any chance someone would post a very quick plot summary with spoilers under a hidden window. I do like Ingmar Bergman, and have for many years, but I'm not sure if I'm up for this one...

There's a review of it on this site benbess. You'll also find some detailed comments (by oildude in particular) on the following board.

Originally Posted by benbess

What about the 20th Century Fox movie The Rains Came (1939) starring Tyrone Power and Myrna Loy. This was, for its time, quite an epic and ambitious production in all sorts of ways. It's set in India, and is about a romance between an Indian doctor and a British woman. But it's also about politics, religion, philosophy of life, etc. And, as a backdrop, there's a gigantic disaster right in the middle of it. This film had a huge for the time budget of c. 2.5 million. The special effects are impressive even today, and in fact it won an Oscar for them. It's a guilty pleasure kind of film, I know, but taken for what it is I have enjoyed it. I saw it on tv 20 years ago, and again last year.

And for a real wild thought, how about this--make it a double bill with the widescreen remake from 1955 from Fox called The Rains of Ranchipur, starring Lana Turner, Richard Burton, and Fred McMurray. I've never even seen or heard of this one until I looked up the original just now.

The Rains Came already has a Fox Studio Classics DVD, which might keep it out of the running, although having that pre-history on DVD certainly didn't stop TT from getting Demetrius and the Gladiators.

On the other hand, The Rains of Ranchipur certainly fits the profile of what TT has been doing from Fox - it's early 2.55:1 CinemaScope, and was never released on DVD in North America - sort of another lost-and-forgotten-in-the-vault movie like Roots of Heaven. I guess it depends on the state of the elements, and whether Fox has already done a high-def transfer.

The double bill idea is intriguing though...pairing a golden era classic with its 'Scope remake (there were quite a few of these, especially from Fox). Of course, you wouldn't want them jammed together on the same disc, thus defeating the purpose of doing a Blu-ray, but I think a TT double-disc 'theme' set would probably be welcomed by most collectors. There's even precedence for this with some of the limited release soundtracks I've seen on SAE.

I'd certainly go for a 'Rains' Blu-ray double bill, although in the short run, I'm sure TT has its hands full with the neglected A list vault titles.

[benbess]

Who is the head of the home video division at Fox now? It seems like their latest releases are getting good reviews.

I doubt they've done an HD scan and clean-up of The Rains of Ranchipur. Even though it has an all-star cast, it doesn't seem to be much noticed. I seems there's quite a bit wrong with it as a movie, in terms of the script, the casting, etc. It's no lost classic. One of the reviews at imdb said the remake of rains was "only a drizzle." So, cancel that bad suggestion of mine!

On to something else. I'm sure someone else can do better than that.

What's at the top of your wishlist ROclockCK?

I still couldn't find the plot points I wanted answered about Rapture. Perhaps I missed them. I'm going to guess that that one won't sell out soon, and so I'll probably wait a while...

[Persianimmortal]

Originally Posted by Yankees0222

The real reason these titles dont sell out sooner is because most people are not aware that these films even exist on blu ray. There's absolutely no marketing for them. I mean, if I didn't frequent these forums, I wouldn't know about them either....

I discovered the Picnic blu-ray on Amazon.com, while browsing for new releases. You can also find it by searching for Picnic blu-ray in their global search box. It's listed there because Screen Archives Entertainment sells through Amazon. That in itself is pretty major exposure in my opinion. Perhaps not as good as having it sitting on shelves in stores everywhere, but I also can't imagine the demand for these classic films on blu-ray is explosive - transition to BD players has been slow, and a lot of people seem happy enough with the DVD versions. A run of 3,000 blu-rays should sell to the people who want them, and the premium price shouldn't be a deterrent.

[BobC]

Note that THE SEVEN-PER-CENT SOLUTION is available via Amazon as a Universal Vault Series MOD disc, in anamorphic widescreen.

[oildude]

Originally Posted by benbess

I still couldn't find the plot points I wanted answered about Rapture. Perhaps I missed them. I'm going to guess that that one won't sell out soon, and so I'll probably wait a while...

Not sure what you are looking for, benbess. ROclockCK pointed to the Rapture discussion thread and also the blu-ray.com review. The latter is a good review of the film. Is the movie depressing? Does she die in the end? I am not going to say, because that would spoil things. In my opinion the movie is not depressing, but it is emotionally compelling. There is redemption and sacrifice to some degree, like in many great stories. I can't imagine you will come away from it feeling let down or otherwise disturbed by it to where you regret seeing it. And believe me, Rapture deserves to be seen.

I would encourage anyone considering Twilight Time releases to pick up Rapture. It is a fantastic film. Except for occasional brief visits to network TV over the years, it has been relegated to vault status since its release in 1965. Such a shame, because the film is a real gem. It is emotionally compelling, fantastically acted, well written, with absolutely beautiful music and cinematography. I have never seen rocky beaches and coastlines look so stunning in black and white. The film is a showcase for Cinemascope in all its glory. Twilight Time has finally given it the treatment it deserves, and for me it is the standout film of the young company's catalog of releases thus far.

The story is as brooding and ominous as the storm shrouded Breton coast, almost neo-gothic in tone, building suspense because the viewer is never quite sure what is going to happen. The actors are all superb; Patricia Gozzi shows a range of ability rarely seen in a young star. This is a memorable film, and it will stay with you after watching it. I can see why the director John Guillermin considers this to be his finest work.

While watching Rapture, I thought about some of the taboo elements in the movie that would make it impossible to be made today with the same level of honesty and intensity (at least in the US). The emotionally fragile teenage girl

[Show spoiler]becoming aware of her sexuality through her desires for an older man

, along with the added theme of

[Show spoiler]whether she is mentally disturbed or merely developmentally delayed and emotionally immature due to being ill-used by callous and manipulative adults

, make Rapture both a dark fairy tale and a gently uplifting coming of age story.

I don't know quite what to compare it to, it is a unique film. In terms of mood and themes, I think if someone likes Hitchcock and Bergman, they will like Rapture. It also reminded me of elements of early Polanski, specifically Repulsion.


Edit: I will let you know that

[Show spoiler]there is no rape. I would not want to see that either.

[benbess]

oildude. Thanks for this wonderful review. You have made a sale. I will pick this one up in a few weeks.

It's quite amazing to discover nearly lost films from the past like this one—and so many others. When I was a kid I went to a revival theater, the kind that are long gone now, and that was an amazing experience too. Sometimes I still miss the audience! But blu-rays today have much finer picture quality and sound quality than almost all of the movies I saw in revival houses as a kid. And that vivid picture and sound of a blu can make for a quite compelling experience like you describe...

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by benbess

What's at the top of your wishlist ROclockCK?

My top dozen Fox 'wishlist' titles from the CinemaScope era (not the same thing as a list of favourites):

• Journey to the Center of the Earth
• The Innocents
• China Gate
• Tender is the Night
• Garden of Evil
• Fantastic Voyage
• Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea
• Prince of Players
• King of the Khyber Rifles
• Sink the Bismarck!
• Wild River
• Murder Inc.

Some of these are just MIAs - movies I've never seen that have always interested me, especially those with scores by Bernard Herrmann. Others I've seen, but know could really benefit from high-def rescanning and remastering. And of course among those that didn't make this list are at least a couple of dozen more that are simply good movies I'd buy if TT released them on Blu. I mean, Fox' 'Scope library had a bunch of obscure Nicholas Ray, Raoul Walsh, and Samuel Fuller pictures...not a lot of debate over buying any of that stuff, most of which I've never seen.

[oildude]

I had forgotten about King of the Khyber Rifles, China Gate, and Journey to the Center of the Earth when I posted my most wanted Fox catalog wishlist on the Demetrius and the Gladiators thread. It appears ROclockCK and I share a few. Fox has so many classics in their vault I am eagerly hoping will go blu, including many I have never seen but would buy if released since I am interested in them.

Here is my updated Fox list, all except one from the Cinemascope era (1953-1967), although not all of these were shot with Cinemascope lenses.

The Blue Max (1966) by John Guillermin, who also directed Rapture - I thnk it was his next film.
Fantastic Voyage (1966)
Von Ryan's Express (1965)
Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea (1961)
Sink the Bismarck (1960)
The Young Lions (1958) one of Brando's best roles
The Agony and the Ecstasy (1965)
North to Alaska (1960)
The Enemy Below (1957)
The Snows of Kilimanjaro (1952)
Journey to the Center of the Earth
King of the Khyber Rifles
China Gate

I think Fox is likely to release some of these on their own, like The Agony and the Ecstasy, but I would have said the same think about Demetrius and the Gladiators. I am hopeful that between Twilight Time, other labels, and the studios, good times are ahead for classic movie fans wanting to see films in the best possible presentation.

EDIT: I just did a Google search on Cinemascope. Oh man, Fox's catalog is deep. There are a lot of great films in there that I was not aware were from the Cinemascope era (including The Day of the Triffids, I last saw that one on TV when I was a kid. One of my favorite childhood monster movies). I need to Google the Columbia catalog to see which of my favorites are also in there.

[ROclockCK]

Originally Posted by oildude

I need to Google the Columbia catalog to see which of my favorites are also in there.

Just FYI oildude: a partial list of 'Scope pictures from Columbia (only ones I've seen highlighted):

• Bitter Victory
• Bridge on the River Kwai
• Commanche Station
• Count Three and Pray
• Edge of Eternity
• Fire Down Below
• Gidget
• High Flight
• Interpol
• Jubal (not sure if I've seen this one)
• The Man From Laramie
• My Sister Eileen
• Picnic
• Ride Lonesome
• Safari
• Three for the Show
• The Violent Men
• The Wackiest Ship in the Army
• You Can't Run Away From It
• Zarak

Not as impressive as the Fox 'Scope library, but some of them looked 'interesting'.

* by no means complete, I couldn't find a comprehensive list of CinemaScope pictures broken down by studio.

[HyperRealist]

Doesn't TT send out screeners? I'm still looking for reviews of Swamp Water and Pal Joey before I order them.

[Blu-Velvet]

Originally Posted by benbess

oildude. Thanks for this wonderful review. You have made a sale. I will pick this one up in a few weeks.

It's quite amazing to discover nearly lost films from the past like this one—and so many others. When I was a kid I went to a revival theater, the kind that are long gone now, and that was an amazing experience too. Sometimes I still miss the audience! But blu-rays today have much finer picture quality and sound quality than almost all of the movies I saw in revival houses as a kid. And that vivid picture and sound of a blu can make for a quite compelling experience like you describe...

Glad you'll be getting RAPTURE. You should not be disappointed. I didn't want to give away much in my blu-ray.com User Review, as I was sold on it by the regular blu-ray.com review and was glad I got it once I saw it. I had a few people over to see it the first time I watched it and they were also impressed by it (one had remembered it from the 1960s pan-and-scan TV showing and not seen it since, so he was especially glad to see it in scope projected on a big screen). There's another brief review that doesn't give away too much at http://nitrateville.com/viewtopic.ph...3022&start=150 (amidst a number of other reviews of classic films on Blu-ray).

The movie I'm waiting to see more reviews on is BITE THE BULLET, as most of the reviews I've found are relatively lukewarm, but so far Twilight Time releases have been reminiscent of Criterion titles in that they're all worth watching even if you might not like it enough to buy a copy. The pamphlet notes are very nice, as is the isolated music track, but a couple of other extras could help make the difference of a sale on "iffy" titles.

A Fox picture I'd like Twilight Time to put out is the odd John Ford film TOBACCO ROAD (1941), which may be watered down from the original play but is still peculiar fun, and Gene Tierney would look great in HD!

[benbess]

Originally Posted by ROclockCK

My top dozen Fox 'wishlist' titles from the CinemaScope era (not the same thing as a list of favourites):

• Journey to the Center of the Earth
• The Innocents
• China Gate
• Tender is the Night
• Garden of Evil
• Fantastic Voyage
• Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea
• Prince of Players
• King of the Khyber Rifles
• Sink the Bismarck!
• Wild River
• Murder Inc.

Some of these are just MIAs - movies I've never seen that have always interested me, especially those with scores by Bernard Herrmann. Others I've seen, but know could really benefit from high-def rescanning and remastering. And of course among those that didn't make this list are at least a couple of dozen more that are simply good movies I'd buy if TT released them on Blu. I mean, Fox' 'Scope library had a bunch of obscure Nicholas Ray, Raoul Walsh, and Samuel Fuller pictures...not a lot of debate over buying any of that stuff, most of which I've never seen.

Great list! Many of these I have not seen myself. On tv as a kid, however, I happened to catch Sink the Bismark! and I really liked it then. As I recall the battle scenes are there but fairly limited. It's more of a cat and mouse game to see if they can find the ship. But somehow it held my attention at the age of 10-12.

China Gate is also interesting. Perhaps the first movie about the Vietnam War. It features a haunting title song by none other than Nat King Cole. I'm a big Nat Cole fan, and I'd say it's one of his finest songs of the 50s, but rather unexpected from him as it's somewhat melancholy and mystical rather than sweet. Cole is actually in the film too...As as movie I'd say it's fairly good. I have an old vhs copy of the film that doesn't play very well and would get it on blu.

Here's the song:

NAT KING COLE - CHINA GATE - YouTube