Panasonic UB820/UB9000 4K UHD Blu-ray player

[wxman2003]

Originally Posted by Disciple of Vedder

I finally bit the bullet today and bought the UB820 from Best Buy. I'm currently using both first gen Sony and LG 4K players with my LG B7 OLED. I've always been pleased with them for the most part, but after reading so many reviews saying my discs could look even better with this player, I decided to take a chance. I'm certainly a little overwhelmed at all of the different options, though. Is there a consensus on the best settings to use with the B7?

Since your tv is not a 2016 model, I would start with HDR Optimizer on, and panel set to OLED in the 820.

[Scottishguy]

Originally Posted by wxman2003

Since your tv is not a 2016 model, I would start with HDR Optimizer on, and panel set to OLED in the 820.

And what about C8s?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by tama

Same as OLED option. 1000 nits. Tried it and it does nothing on my OLED.

Picked The Greatest Showman to try out the Basic luminance. Didn't notice any raised blacks. Also now that I watched an entire presentation and playing around with it here and there I realized that my stating a global dimming is inaccurate. Some portions are unaffected and in some small cases there was no decernable difference. Brought back some minor detail such as in the flames.

Personally I'll keep playing around with it but I do prefer using the Basic luminance for now.

I tried out some more movies with Basic/500 last night and I have to agree that there isn't some kind of default global dimming in operation, it does just depend on the content. The Blues Brothers is mastered to 989 nits MaxCLL (with the usual Universal 1000 nit mastering display metadata) and 135 nits MaxFALL and with the Optimiser on then it'll dim the parts of the image that go over 500 nits but won't touch the rest. In shots with a high average brightness across the screen then it nudges it downwards slightly, in shots with regular brightness but brighter highlights then it just dims the highlights, in shots that have neither high average brightness or bright highlights then it doesn't affect them at all.

And, as with most 1000-nit mastered content not doing anything when set to 1000/OLED/Medium or High LCD, then content which has <500 nits in the metadata does absolutely nothing in the Optimised Basic/500 mode. Someone mentioned Goodfeathers, and Knives Out is another example, it's got a 1000-nit mastering display level but the MaxCLL of the actual content is a mere 267 nits. It does nada.

So in that respect then what I was saying before about the 1000 modes being useless for all 1000-nit mastered content isn't quite true, the player looks at MaxCLL first and if that's not present then it refers to the generic maximum mastering display level. What I said still applies to 99% of discs from Fox, Disnee and Paramount as they use 1000-nit mastering display level with no MaxCLL at all (mostly), but as Universal use the 1000-nit mastering and also include specific MaxCLL figures then using the Optimiser set to OLED on those will still be worthwhile on an OLED (though the MaxCLL of quite a few Uni UHDs is on or near 1000 nits anyway ).

Also pulled up the S&M Dynamic Range Low pattern to check the black levels and the Basic/500 is doing nothing on the ZD9. Not raising, not crushing, nothing. But then it is a filthy FALD LCD, so what do I know about black levels?

[JackTwist]

I missed out on the sale for the UB820. About to move to a new home with a basement movie room we’re building. Upgrading the setup to a 77CX and was strongly considering this Panasonic player. This would allow me to run straight to the AVR, instead of using the Xbox One X since I’d have to bypass the receiver for VRR/ALLM and can’t passthrough DTS on the CX. How often does this player go on sale? Not sure how much more I’ll get agreement from the spouse on after the shocking agreement on the OLED upgrade.

[Oscarilbo]

Hi guys I finally got my 420 and what a marvel. For me the ultimate HDR test was the desert scene from The Lion King (2019- when Timon and Pumba find Simba). Highlights in that scene were completely blown out, Image basically looked white with my sonyx700... well, not anymore. Every 4K disc I’ve tested just looks beautiful with my 4K projector.

Just one thing. I couldn’t get HDR from Netflix. I set the SDR to HDR conversion to off since I’m not interested in see everything in HDR, just what it actually is from source.

[HDTV1080P]

Originally Posted by jjlikesonions

This is all great information, thank you! Is there a simplified way to describe what tone mapping is? Is it a tool for HDR analysis, or does actually change/improve the image?

The reason why we have tone mapping in 4K displays and some 4K Blu-ray players is because of limitations in the display being able to display the peak brightness that is offered by the HDR formats. There are big improvements that need to be made in display technologies so that tone mapping can be bypassed and not needed anymore.

https://forum.blu-ray.com/showpost.p...postcount=1308

[jack_of_america]

Since having the UB820, I've watched the 4K discs of Seven Worlds, One Planet, The Revenant, Dunkirk and Escape from New York. I flipped between the HDR optimizer being on/off and replayed some scenes and overall for me it just depends. Some scenes look better with the HDR optimizer, some do not. I'm coming from using an Xbox One X as my 4K player, so for me I'm just now seeing a world of difference in terms of overall quality on the C8. It is a massive difference, way more than I expected.

I'm definitely not an enthusiast by the standards of this community, but my ultimate goal (as I'm sure it is with others) with viewing films on BD is to try and get as close as possible to the creators intent given the limitations. If the HDR optimizer gets me to that point, great. If not, totally fine too. However, the optimizer almost feels negligible to me right now since it's missing the filmmakers/creators stamp of approval.

Please chime in and correct my line of thinking here. Even if the HDR optimizer proves to be "beneficial" from a technical standpoint, why turn it on if it might alter the viewing experience that is out of line from what is intended? Or will turning on the HDR optimizer actually move us closer to the filmmakers vision? I know this bucket of worms may tie into which mode you view your content on ie Technicolor Expert, Expert Dark Room, Cinema, etc (or it's professionally calibrated) - but outside of that, can anybody comment on the HDR optimizer being a needle that moves us closer to the filmmakers HDR intent?

Appreciate any insight, thoughts or opinions on this. I'm looking to learn from you all. Been following these forums since 2010, so it feels good to finally have made a profile. Hope everyone is safe and well during these crazy times.

[Oscarilbo]

To me it’s the totally oposite experience. For me the optimizer gets me closer to what the filmmaker intended since he/she did not take my display into account. You may like it how some movies or scenes look with the uncontrolled HDR, but that doesn’t mean thats what the filmmaker wanted to achieve. So the optimizer adjusts my display closer to the original intention.

[GenPion]

Originally Posted by Oscarilbo

To me it’s the totally oposite experience. For me the optimizer gets me closer to what the filmmaker intended since he/she did not take my display into account. You may like it how some movies or scenes look with the uncontrolled HDR, but that doesn’t mean thats what the filmmaker wanted to achieve. So the optimizer adjusts my display closer to the original intention.

Pretty much. Agreed. That’s why I opted for the Panasonic.

I’m just not sure whether or not to leave mine at standard or oled setting with my E6P.

Technically, with it set to standard, one would still get deeper blacks, richer colors, 4K resolution, etc. Its really just a slightly dimmer image with less peak brightness, correct? I don’t see why anyone would want higher peak brightness if the display can’t handle it with reproducing the nit levels.

[wxman2003]

I did some more testing on my E6 last night with HDR optimizer and the S&M UHD disc. if you are going to use optimizer and select luminance, you must set the brightness correctly for the luminance you use. A brightness setting in your tv for OLED luminance will be incorrect for basic luminance when Optimizer is engaged. Using HDR dark room on my tv, and panel set to OLED and optimizer on, with a default brightness of 50, I could barely see 4% on the pluge pattern. So there is major crush going on. I raised brightness to 53 to correct the crush and to see 2% clearly. Switching to basic luminance with HDR optimizer engaged, a brightness of 50 allowed me to see 2% clearly. Once you have figured your brightness correctly for the luminance you select, there is no difference in near blacks. One does not look flatter than the other. Leaving the brightness at the default of 50 on the E6 for HDR10 has been wrong for years.

On other tv's I would have no clue, but on the E6, the biggest complaint was the loss of near black detail with SDR content. HDR10 should not looked more crushed than SDR. That was one of the points of HDR and DV. With proper brightness setting with HDR optimizer on, yes the black may appear to be more washed out, but that really isnt the case. Black is still inky black, it's now the near blacks are more visible, which is the way it should be. And with poor HDR10 encodes where the black floor is incorrect, it will look more washed out, but the letterbox bars still remain inky black.

Final point, all the above I mentioned is for a non calibrated HDR10 mode. If your HDR10 mode is calibrated, I'm sure using basic luminance will react differently. The E6 has primitive HDR calibration with code level adjustment, not a true 20 point adjustment, so I never got mine calibrated for HDR10, and of course at the time I bought it 4 years, nobody near me knew how to calibrate it for HDR.

[Geoff D]

And that's the thing really, our displays are doing different things with all this stuff. Black level at 50 on the ZD9 is the default for all formats and viewing modes and does not apply any more/less crush to the low end between HDR and SDR, nor does it do anything differently with the low end of any of the Optimised modes. It's also calibrated to follow the PQ tracking correctly (up to where the TV's brightness taps out, so it then clips above 1800 nits) with the D65 white point also dialled in.

Originally Posted by GenPion

I would says the HDR optimizer is meant to bring viewers closer to a filmmakers vision. I don’t think directors would be pleased with the technological limitations that cause blown out highlights/black crush on displays that need extra help from the optimizer.

Agreed. As much as the Optimiser and other such tone mapping solutions could be seen to be 'changing' the image, the alternative is far more damaging to creative intent if a TV is badly clipping highlights or drastically reducing the average brightness level for those "SDR in HDR container" type grades. I've never, ever had something look so dark in HDR as to be unwatchable on my TV.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Oscarilbo

Just one thing. I couldn’t get HDR from Netflix. I set the SDR to HDR conversion to off since I’m not interested in see everything in HDR, just what it actually is from source.

I have issues with HDR and Atmos with my set-up as well, sometimes playing the video for a bit and stopping it can engage the HDR and Atmos, but I'm often left with just HD and 5.1.

There doesn't seem to be a surefire fix.

[wxman2003]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Agreed. As much as the Optimiser and other such tone mapping solutions could be seen to be 'changing' the image, the alternative is far more damaging to creative intent if a TV is badly clipping highlights or drastically reducing the average brightness level for those "SDR in HDR container" type grades. I've never, ever had something look so dark in HDR as to be unwatchable on my TV.

I agree. That's why brightness setting is so critical on OLED. Since it maxes peak brightness out below 1000 nits, you don't want to be crushing everything below 4% and also clipping everything above 600 to 700 nits. It becomes unwatchable. It's critical that one gets the correct brightness set for every picture mode in HDR, SDR and DV and least to see the near black detail that default brightness of 50 generally crushes. SDR can have multiple brightness settings. 52 could be right for a gamma of 2.2. 54 could be right for a gamma of 1886 and so on. Now add in HDR optimizer for HDR10, and you will have even more adjustments to make depending on the luminance you select. Oh yea, now do that with every device you attach to your tv. I feel like I have been in a constant state of tinkering with my E6.

[Geoff D]

That's bonkers. I did a load of tinkering with the ZD9 before being able to properly gauge what the settings are doing (shout out to Ryan Masciola's test patterns), I think I'd have gone insane(r) if I had your telly!

[wxman2003]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

That's bonkers. I did a load of tinkering with the ZD9 before being able to properly gauge what the settings are doing (shout out to Ryan Masciola's test patterns), I think I'd have gone insane if I had your telly!

To this day, I still regret not getting the 75Z9D when they were on closeout for $3000. No LCD can match it to this day.

[bnmdjm]

Originally Posted by wxman2003

I did some more testing on my E6 last night with HDR optimizer and the S&M UHD disc. if you are going to use optimizer and select luminance, you must set the brightness correctly for the luminance you use. A brightness setting in your tv for OLED luminance will be incorrect for basic luminance when Optimizer is engaged. Using HDR dark room on my tv, and panel set to OLED and optimizer on, with a default brightness of 50, I could barely see 4% on the pluge pattern. So there is major crush going on. I raised brightness to 53 to correct the crush and to see 2% clearly. Switching to basic luminance with HDR optimizer engaged, a brightness of 50 allowed me to see 2% clearly. Once you have figured your brightness correctly for the luminance you select, there is no difference in near blacks. One does not look flatter than the other. Leaving the brightness at the default of 50 on the E6 for HDR10 has been wrong for years.

On other tv's I would have no clue, but on the E6, the biggest complaint was the loss of near black detail with SDR content. HDR10 should not looked more crushed than SDR. That was one of the points of HDR and DV. With proper brightness setting with HDR optimizer on, yes the black may appear to be more washed out, but that really isnt the case. Black is still inky black, it's now the near blacks are more visible, which is the way it should be. And with poor HDR10 encodes where the black floor is incorrect, it will look more washed out, but the letterbox bars still remain inky black.

Final point, all the above I mentioned is for a non calibrated HDR10 mode. If your HDR10 mode is calibrated, I'm sure using basic luminance will react differently. The E6 has primitive HDR calibration with code level adjustment, not a true 20 point adjustment, so I never got mine calibrated for HDR10, and of course at the time I bought it 4 years, nobody near me knew how to calibrate it for HDR.

I've been testing out some of your experiences on my B7a and have some interesting results to report. In DV, my results matched yours exactly. Using the test patterns you referenced, I found 52 was the correct brightness. Below that was major black crush and at 53 the black bars "turned on".

However, with HDR10 I did not get the same experience, which I somewhat expected. Using test patterns I found zero impact from the optimizer (at 500 nits) on black levels and that 50 was perfect. It seems like this particular issue may just be isolated to the 6 series OLEDS.

All in all, I'm sticking with the 500 nit setting for now and the only thing I wish Panasonic would consider is the ability to more finely dial in the optimizer than 500, 1000 or 1500 nit settings.

[GenPion]

Makes sense. If there was a setting available of 750 nits for certain OLED owners that would be ideal. Maybe a firmware update for the player is possible? Should we message Panasonic?

[tama]

Originally Posted by bnmdjm

I've been testing out some of your experiences on my B7a and have some interesting results to report. In DV, my results matched yours exactly. Using the test patterns you referenced, I found 52 was the correct brightness. Below that was major black crush and at 53 the black bars "turned on".

However, with HDR10 I did not get the same experience, which I somewhat expected. Using test patterns I found zero impact from the optimizer (at 500 nits) on black levels and that 50 was perfect. It seems like this particular issue may just be isolated to the 6 series OLEDS.

All in all, I'm sticking with the 500 nit setting for now and the only thing I wish Panasonic would consider is the ability to more finely dial in the optimizer than 500, 1000 or 1500 nit settings.

Interesting you found 52 clicks to be correct in DV. From what's been reported it was my understanding that the DV mode in the Panny was already raising a slight brightness level issue.

[GenPion]

I’ve always read to leave the Dolby Vision settings alone because of the dynamic metadata so mine is simply left at the default of 50.

[wxman2003]

Originally Posted by tama

Interesting you found 52 clicks to be correct in DV. From what's been reported it was my understanding that the DV mode in the Panny was already raising a slight brightness level issue.

That is with the low latency Dolby profile that most 2017 and newer tv's use. The 2016 LG OLEDs don't use that profile, so blacks aren't elevated. Actually crushed a bit, so setting a click or 2 above 50 solves it. I believe the B7 uses the same chip as the E6, so it probably doesn't use the low latency profile either.