Panasonic UB820/UB9000 4K UHD Blu-ray player

[Ray Jackson]

Originally Posted by Paul.R.S

What's your viewing diet like? I find there's a lot of DV fetishism out t/here. Unless you are planning to either seek out new release UHD BDs that have DV or have/plan to get AppleTV 4K, I don't necessarily think DV should be a top three consideration.

I mention AppleTV because there is currently a lot of content on that platform in DV that's not available in DV on UHD BD if on UHD BD at all. I personally am keeping an eye on MGM titles: Rocky and all the pre-Daniel Craig Bonds are on AppleTV with DV but of course there are no UHD BDs for any of those.

But I personally am not currently interested in buying an AppleTV 4K. So that's just one example of how important looking at your own viewing diet is. Even if PQ is supposedly better, has the stuff you watch (deep catalog vs. new theatricals; indie vs. big studio; music titles and docs vs. feature films) even been released in DV?

[Disclaimer: I recently went through a significant bout of considering all these factors for myself in connection with buying a new display. I got an 85" Sammy QLED. No. DVD for me.]

To be honest, I have no idea in regards to any of your questions.

Which probably means I don’t need it?

...thanks for your substantive response.

[chip75]

The encoding/compression differences between some DV and HDR10 titles is concerning for me, I'd like to get an LG OLED, but our living room is too bright (we've had a Samsung "Mirror" plasma in the past) so a Samsung maybe our only option (we need Freesat). Unfortunately they don't have Dolby Vision and compared to the LG's they only have one HDMI 2.1 input (not that that's a huge issue), everyone in the house is used to the LG's Magic Remote, I'm not sure how they'd feel with a new OS.

Shame LG don't make a decent LCD, like I said I'd love an OLED, but I'm not the only one watching it, but I'm also worried about DSE and viewing angles.

Of course if I bought an OLED I'd have to upgrade my player anyway!

[wxman2003]

I have the 2016 LG OLED, and can attest that HDR10 does not look good at all on the tv. I compared the DV version on my tv, to the HDR10 version with DV turned off in the player. HDR10 is much dimmer. However, with the Optimizer set to OLED, and raising the dynamic range setting on the Panny to +2 or +3, the image looks more like the DV version.

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by chip75

The encoding/compression differences between some DV and HDR10 titles is concerning for me, I'd like to get an LG OLED, but our living room is too bright (we've had a Samsung "Mirror" plasma in the past) so a Samsung maybe our only option (we need Freesat). Unfortunately they don't have Dolby Vision and compared to the LG's they only have one HDMI 2.1 input (not that that's a huge issue), everyone in the house is used to the LG's Magic Remote, I'm not sure how they'd feel with a new OS.

Shame LG don't make a decent LCD, like I said I'd love an OLED, but I'm not the only one watching it, but I'm also worried about DSE and viewing angles.

Of course if I bought an OLED I'd have to upgrade my player anyway!

The room my LG C9 is in a decently bright room but I feel as though it does a pretty good job with handling light in the room. There is a bit of reflections on the screen from time to time but overall it looks great! If you are looking to get an LG OLED, I highly recommend it!

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by wxman2003

I have the 2016 LG OLED, and can attest that HDR10 does not look good at all on the tv. I compared the DV version on my tv, to the HDR10 version with DV turned off in the player. HDR10 is much dimmer. However, with the Optimizer set to OLED, and raising the dynamic range setting on the Panny to +2 or +3, the image looks more like the DV version.

Yet I have a 2019 LG C9 and the HDR10 looks pretty good. Yes, it is dimmer but I found that the Dynamic Tone Mapping setting seems to solves this issue. I believe that isn't a setting on your 2016 LG OLED.

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by pbz06

That TV is native 60hz. The "motion rate" is a software implementation that interpolates frames for smoothing.

Samsung is really good with their marketing names and features They also have a MR240!

Okay, so I'm back.

I have a question:

Is it possible what I'm seeing is, in fact, the interpolation of the 24p video signal into the 60hz display?

Would this go away if I bought the more expensive "native" 120hz TV set, which costs about twice as much?

I ask because I watched the first movie all the way through last night (after testing dozens of discs, both UHD and BD), and I purposely chose a BD, not a UHD disc, since 99% of my collection is and always will be BDs.

First, I have to correct something I said before. What I am seeing is not motion smoothing. I get that now. I turned motion smoothing on and flipped through the settings just to explore it, and it's nightmarishly awful.

What I'm seeing is MUCH, MUCH more subtle.

It looks almost like a PAL-NTSC conversion or PAL-speedup.

Leaves blowing on trees and feathers on hats and ripples in water all just look weird. Their movement looks unnaturally fluid and sped-up.

Could this be from the 24p signal being interpolated into a 60hz display?

BTW - The 24p output setting on the player that I had turned off previously made no difference with a BD, I A/B'd it, so I turned it back on.

Either way, played off both a BD player and a UHD player, a standard BD had this strange, extremely subtle motion issue.

Would this be erased if I had a more expensive "native" 120hz TV, since 24 goes evenly into 120, while it doesn't go into 60?

[wxman2003]

Originally Posted by PUsokrJosh305

Yet I have a 2019 LG C9 and the HDR10 looks pretty good. Yes, it is dimmer but I found that the Dynamic Tone Mapping setting seems to solves this issue. I believe that isn't a setting on your 2016 LG OLED.

Correct. That's why I adjust dynamic range setting on the panny.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by PUsokrJosh305

The room my LG C9 is in a decently bright room but I feel as though it does a pretty good job with handling light in the room. There is a bit of reflections on the screen from time to time but overall it looks great! If you are looking to get an LG OLED, I highly recommend it!

Are you running the OLED Light at max during the day? that would be a slight concern for me.

[gnicks]

Originally Posted by wxman2003

I have the 2016 LG OLED, and can attest that HDR10 does not look good at all on the tv. I compared the DV version on my tv, to the HDR10 version with DV turned off in the player. HDR10 is much dimmer. However, with the Optimizer set to OLED, and raising the dynamic range setting on the Panny to +2 or +3, the image looks more like the DV version.

I'm interested in trying this out with HDR10 on my B7, which also seems slightly dim compared to DV. I could use the 'Active HDR' feature (Dynamic Contrast: Low), but this ends up clipping highlight detail.

Are there drawbacks to raising these settings through the Panny? I would like the image to be more in line with DV, but I also want the picture to be accurate above all else.

[tama]

Originally Posted by gnicks

I'm interested in trying this out with HDR10 on my B7, which also seems slightly dim compared to DV. I could use the 'Active HDR' feature (Dynamic Contrast: Low), but this ends up clipping highlight detail.

Are there drawbacks to raising these settings through the Panny? I would like the image to be more in line with DV, but I also want the picture to be accurate above all else.

when I'm comparing disc the DTM makes the overall image brighter compared to Going through DV. BTTF was they latest disc I tried out. but my Disney titles throw me for a loop as their Disney+ DV streams are brighter then their HDR10 disc counterpart unless I use DTM which again still brings its own set of issues.

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

Okay, so I'm back.

I have a question:

Is it possible what I'm seeing is, in fact, the interpolation of the 24p video signal into the 60hz display?

Would this go away if I bought the more expensive "native" 120hz TV set, which costs about twice as much?

I ask because I watched the first movie all the way through last night (after testing dozens of discs, both UHD and BD), and I purposely chose a BD, not a UHD disc, since 99% of my collection is and always will be BDs.

First, I have to correct something I said before. What I am seeing is not motion smoothing. I get that now. I turned motion smoothing on and flipped through the settings just to explore it, and it's nightmarishly awful.

What I'm seeing is MUCH, MUCH more subtle.

It looks almost like a PAL-NTSC conversion or PAL-speedup.

Leaves blowing on trees and feathers on hats and ripples in water all just look weird. Their movement looks unnaturally fluid and sped-up.

Could this be from the 24p signal being interpolated into a 60hz display?

BTW - The 24p output setting on the player that I had turned off previously made no difference with a BD, I A/B'd it, so I turned it back on.

Either way, played off both a BD player and a UHD player, a standard BD had this strange, extremely subtle motion issue.

Would this be erased if I had a more expensive "native" 120hz TV, since 24 goes evenly into 120, while it doesn't go into 60?

Yes, that may very likely be the case. Your TV could be manipulating the frame timing of the 3:2 conversion (24p with 60hz panel) so it could be speeding it up or at least some of the frames while not interpolating anything.

But a 120hz panel would be a better upgrade because the TV can natively just show every frame 5 times (5x24 = 120). You will still get the inherent movie camera stutter that you see with low framerate playback but it will be much more stable and consistent and less intrusive...at least with Sony TV's it is. The 120hz panel and higher tier chip would clean up the 3:2 judder and processing stutter.

If you want to stay with the Samsung family, look at the Q80 or Q90 depending on your budget. Or we could make other suggestions but need to know size and budget

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by chip75

Are you running the OLED Light at max during the day? that would be a slight concern for me.

It really depends. If I am watching an SDR Blu-ray, then no the OLED light is at 80 but if I am watching an HDR 4K movie, then yes the OLED light is up to 100. My set has been professionally calibrated so I am not touching a thing on the setup.

[James Luckard]

Originally Posted by pbz06

Yes, that may very likely be the case. Your TV could be manipulating the frame timing of the 3:2 conversion (24p with 60hz panel) so it could be speeding it up or at least some of the frames while not interpolating anything.

But a 120hz panel would be a better upgrade because the TV can natively just show every frame 5 times (5x24 = 120). You will still get the inherent movie camera stutter that you see with low framerate playback but it will be much more stable and consistent and less intrusive...at least with Sony TV's it is. The 120hz panel and higher tier chip would clean up the 3:2 judder and processing stutter.

If you want to stay with the Samsung family, look at the Q80 or Q90 depending on your budget. Or we could make other suggestions but need to know size and budget

Thanks! I spoke with a friend earlier who's knowledgeable about all this, and he agreed, it may be an issue with the TV being 60hz.

He's going to come over tomorrow, and I'll demonstrate it to him, with masks on and windows open.

The issue is, indeed, extremely slight, but it's so distracting to me that I can't focus on watching a film like this. I'd MUCH rather go back to my 40" 1080p set until I have this figured out.

He also pointed out that this TV is exceedingly dim, which is why I had to have all the brightness settings blown out to nuclear levels just to see anything.

It sounds like I got talked into buying a TV that didn't suit my needs, and I may need to return this TV and then get a new one, when the pandemic is over, and I can spend more time in the store investigating.

I had hoped to actually watch a UHD player output on a monitor with motion smoothing turned off, and confirm I could generate a satisfying image before I bought the setup, but that was impossible at Best Buy.

[teddyballgame]

Originally Posted by PUsokrJosh305

It really depends. If I am watching an SDR Blu-ray, then no the OLED light is at 80 but if I am watching an HDR 4K movie, then yes the OLED light is up to 100. My set has been professionally calibrated so I am not touching a thing on the setup.

Same, just out of curiosity who did you have for the calibration? Chad B is pretty much local so I went with him. I thought I was probably crazy for spending the extra cash to calibrate but it really was worth it. When I click on the old picture mode it's yucky now

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by James Luckard

Thanks! I spoke with a friend earlier who's knowledgeable about all this, and he agreed, it may be an issue with the TV being 60hz.

If only someone had mentioned the 60Hz panel thing before, lol

Originally Posted by Geoff D

How did you have your prior player(s) set up? Did they have the 24p output turned off as well? I'm surprised you never noticed it before if they were set to 24p. As said above, you're actually adding judder to the output if you turn it off because the player is converting 24p to 60p using 3:2 pulldown.

Okay, so how comes it looks better than 24p with no 'soap opera effect' to your eyes? Because not all TVs play 24p *at* 24p or a multiple thereof, e.g. if their refresh rate is 60Hz then they have to adjust the 24p to make it 'fit' and, Samsung being Samsung, they prolly didn't use regular 3:2 pulldown but some daft in-house processing when provided a 24p signal. So when you turned it off the player is now outputting a rate that best matches the 60Hz display, hence the lack of overt SOE. And the same applies to your buddy's TV too, it's not the first time I've come across this phenom.

I tell you what though, if you've been viewing 60Hz stuff for years and years and years then it's gonna be interesting to see how you react to watching 24p on a display that can do it properly. You mentioned before that you avoided the 120Hz TV but the irony is that that one may have been MORE suited for proper 24p cadence because 120 is a multiple of 24. Not that I'm talking about Motionflow, but just how the TV makes 24 'fit' into its native 120 rate by cleanly repeating each frame five times. That may sound like a lot of repeated frames but as these are sample and hold displays anyway then there's no obvious added lag, and you're already watching 24 converted into 60 with no ill effect.

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by teddyballgame

Same, just out of curiosity who did you have for the calibration? Chad B is pretty much local so I went with him. I thought I was probably crazy for spending the extra cash to calibrate but it really was worth it. When I click on the old picture mode it's yucky now

I had one of the calibrators that Robert (Or Robert himself) uses at Value Electronics to calibrate my LG C9 when I purchased it from them. Robert even sent me the before and after results after calibration as well as the in-menu settings in case if the TV's settings get reset accidentally. I am very satisfied with the calibration and love how my TV looks!! The only thing I messed with is the Dynamic Tone Mapping function and have kept it "On" instead of "Off."

[Auditor55]

Originally Posted by PUsokrJosh305

I had one of the calibrators that Robert (Or Robert himself) uses at Value Electronics to calibrate my LG C9 when I purchased it from them. Robert even sent me the before and after results after calibration as well as the in-menu settings in case if the TV's settings get reset accidentally. I am very satisfied with the calibration and love how my TV looks!! The only thing I messed with is the Dynamic Tone Mapping function and have kept it "On" instead of "Off."

What is it about DTM "on" instead of "off" that you prefer?

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by Auditor55

What is it about DTM "on" instead of "off" that you prefer?

Well, I just explained myself in the LG OLED Thread about it, but I'll also leave this in here since I talk a lot about leaving it "On" with the Panny 820 HDR Optimizer set to "On" as well:

I have done a little messing around today on my LG C9 when it comes to Dolby Vision vs. HDR. I have come to the conclusion that as long as you have the Dynamic Tone Mapping Function turned "On," the HDR picture of a film looks almost identical to the Dolby Vision Version of the film. I tested this out on a few discs. This is the 1st time I actually looked at the Dolby Vision version of a film (which is surprising to say the least)!

A great example would the the 3rd Chapter in Aquaman when he jumps on the deck to meet his father and they have a drink in a pub. The sun is where you want to look. In the Dolby Vision version, the sunlight is dimmed a little to make out the details in the clouds. Same can be said for the HDR Version with Dynamic Tone Mapping function set to "On." Mind you, I do have the Panasonic 820 Optimizer set to "On" and have that tone mapping everything above 1,500 nits and Aquaman has a high max level of 3,000 or so nits. Either way though, it looked almost identical to the Dolby Vision version of the film.

I also tested Spider-Man: Homecoming out and the HDR Version of the movie with Dynamic Tone Mapping set to "On" was completely identical to the Dolby Vision version of the film. Without it set to "On," the movie looked really dark and not what was intended.

The only differences I saw between the HDR version and Dolby Vision Versions of the films is the movie menus. The Dolby Vision versions had dimmer menus vs. the HDR which were pretty bright.

This leads me to the conclusion that the LG Dynamic Tone Mapping Function seems to do a really great job at making it almost identical to the Dolby Vision version of a film. This is why I leave it on, especially since a lot of movies do not have Dolby Vision versions and are only in HDR. HDR looks dim without the Dynamic Tone Mapping set to "On". Again, it does help that I have a Panasonic 820 tone mapping everything higher than 1,500 nits, but again without the Dynamic Tone Mapping set to "On," the picture won't truly look the way it should!

Now if you don't have the Dynamic Tone Mapping Function but your TV supports Dolby Vision, then I would make sure to watch that version of the film. I know that some LG TV's also have the Dynamic Tone Mapping Function in the "Dynamic Contrast" setting, so use that as well!

[newtbludger]

Just tried to watch my 4K disc of Dunkirk and around the 12 minute mark the image began to get garbled and started to freeze. I'm pretty sure it's the disc as it does it in the exact same spot every time but I just thought I'd mention it here in case any other panny owners experienced this.

[tama]

correct me if I'm wrong but isn't WB Aquaman inside a 4000 nit container because peak brightness is higher the 1000 nits?