Panasonic UB820/UB9000 4K UHD Blu-ray player

[HeavyHitter]

Originally Posted by richwood

I'm very tempted to replace my 820 with a Reavon X100, and then never buy another Panasonic product again.

I am tempted to do that at some point myself (when I upgrade to a new JVC with DTM), but I would like to hear a public comment from Reavon that they will commit to continually supporting the player. But will they do that?

[Oniiz86]

But, but, but remember now it was said a few months ago that Panasonic is tackling these firmware issues with utmost importance as it's a "core" part of their business

[TravisTylerBlack]

Originally Posted by richwood

I'm very tempted to replace my 820 with a Reavon X100, and then never buy another Panasonic product again.

Irked as I am @ Panny's total dismissal of the DV issues I'm not ready to throw the proverbial baby out with the bathwater just yet. As far as I can tell the level of both customization and display-specific optimization these players provide is still unmatched by anything else currently on the market.

And though I'm glad to see that early impressions of the Reavon units are favorable, there are still too many unknowns for me to go ahead and bite- especially at such a premium price point. For all we know these shiny new disc spinners from France could have a host of quirky issues that simply haven't been discovered as of yet.

Additonally, unless I missed it, the Reavons don't seem to have any sort of HDR optimizer type feature, which IMO is mighty unfortunate and, for me personally, automatically tips the scales in favor of the UB820 & 9000.

[richwood]

Originally Posted by TravisTylerBlack

Additonally, unless I missed it, the Reavons don't seem to have any sort of HDR optimizer type feature, which IMO is mighty unfortunate and, for me personally, automatically tips the scales in favor of the UB820 & 9000.

It's got a configurable HDR-SDR conversion which, according to the manual, lets you set a target luminance level, and it'll then map anything above that back into the target range. From the screenshots I've seen it's a slider where you can pick a set lumen level.

[TravisTylerBlack]

Originally Posted by richwood

It's got a configurable HDR-SDR conversion which, according to the manual, lets you set a target luminance level, and it'll then map anything above that back into the target range. From the screenshots I've seen it's a slider where you can pick a set lumen level.

Interesting. Does it allow you to adjust the luminance for native HDR or is this only for HDR-SDR converted material?

[richwood]

Originally Posted by TravisTylerBlack

Interesting. Does it allow you to adjust the luminance for native HDR or is this only for HDR-SDR converted material?

The manual says:

HDR-SDR Adj.: Allows you to adjust the target luminance for better HDR to SDR conversion. The luminance content higher than the target luminance will be maped into the luminance range lower than the target luminance.

The screenshot over on the AVSForum thread shows it in the left hand half of the slider and set to 300, my educated guess is that this isn't actually just HDR-SDR, it's HDR to a lower lumen HDR. So on my OLED I could presumably set it to 1000ish to tame the top end before letting the screen deal with the rest.

[TravisTylerBlack]

Originally Posted by richwood

The screenshot over on the AVSForum thread shows it in the left hand half of the slider and set to 300, my educated guess is that this isn't actually just HDR-SDR, it's HDR to a lower lumen HDR. So on my OLED I could presumably set it to 1000ish to tame the top end before letting the screen deal with the rest.

Will be interested to hear/read more detailed impressions of this feature as reviews continue to roll in. The Panny optimizer, while once again great, is sort of a blunt instrument.
A similar tool that offers additional refinement could potentially be a step up.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

I absolutely adore the line about “third party devices”, are they basically referring to TVs there? “We can’t guarantee that this player will work properly if you plug it into a TV” is a hell of a thing to say about a device where its primary function is exactly that.

I had an issue with one of my SONY BDs in a PlayStation3 years ago and I mentioned I'd popped it in to check the bitrate (by pressing the INFO button on the remote). I was told since I'd used disc in what they considered a non-standard way, my rotten disc could get stuffed (along with myself).

It's amazing what people get away with emails and on-line communications, although I would have probably drowned after pissing myself if confronted with such stupidity in person.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by TravisTylerBlack

Will be interested to hear/read more detailed impressions of this feature as reviews continue to roll in. The Panny optimizer, while once again great, is sort of a blunt instrument.
A similar tool that offers additional refinement could potentially be a step up.

Yep. It doesn’t sound like the Reavon’s is any less ‘dumb’ but if you can set the target nits to a more granular level (instead of 500/1000/1500) then that will greatly help to fine tune the output.

[chip75]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yep. It doesn’t sound like the Reavon’s is any less ‘dumb’ but if you can set the target nits to a more granular level (instead of 500/1000/1500) then that will greatly help to fine tune the output.

I still don't understand why they didn't make HDR more complicated for folks that want to tweak. It can't have been that difficult to have a system where you tell your player/display the contents' peak brightness (which should be on the specifications) and let the user decide where they want the trade-off to be, whether it's contrast or brightness.

Give folks automatic options and optimizers (thank goodness we've had that!) and let folks (many of which are used to tweaking settings with PCs) fiddle around.

[panasonicst60]

Originally Posted by TravisTylerBlack

Will be interested to hear/read more detailed impressions of this feature as reviews continue to roll in. The Panny optimizer, while once again great, is sort of a blunt instrument.
A similar tool that offers additional refinement could potentially be a step up.

Adjusting the tone curves are refinements available in the current panasonic players.

[TravisTylerBlack]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yep. It doesn’t sound like the Reavon’s is any less ‘dumb’ but if you can set the target nits to a more granular level (instead of 500/1000/1500) then that will greatly help to fine tune the output.

Won't hold my breath, but if Panny ever finds a way to add a such a feature via one of those mythical firmware updates I'll be tickled pink.

I will say this though- blunt instrument that it is, the optimizer does a solid job at approximating the way Dolby Vision helps to reign in overly bright HDR on many titles, especially in regards to the bevy of eyeball scorchers from the good folks Sony.

When I switched it on last week and compared several scenes between the original Labyrinth UHD and the new Dolby Vision disc the resulting presentations were practically identical. Switched it off again and the difference was pretty significant.

[mkozlows]

It's great that the Reavon has that feature, but for non-projector users, the whole/only point of the HDR Optimizer feature is that there's some belief (I don't know how well-founded) that the Panasonic does a better job tone-mapping than the display would. Has anyone tested the Reavon vs a modern display? (In all honesty, I'm not convinced that anyone has tested the Panasonic against a modern display, either; there seems to be a lot of superstition around this.)

[TravisTylerBlack]

Originally Posted by mkozlows

It's great that the Reavon has that feature, but for non-projector users, the whole/only point of the HDR Optimizer feature is that there's some belief (I don't know how well-founded) that the Panasonic does a better job tone-mapping than the display would. Has anyone tested the Reavon vs a modern display? (In all honesty, I'm not convinced that anyone has tested the Panasonic against a modern display, either; there seems to be a lot of superstition around this.)

What exactly do you mean by "tested against a modern display"? The projector setting on the UB820 is an absolute lifesaver when it comes to tone mapping HDR material on my BenQ HT2550. The improvement is so dramatic (compared to simply letting the projector do its thing) that you would have to be color blind not to notice- and even then you'd still see all that sweet highlight information being restored

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by TravisTylerBlack

Won't hold my breath, but if Panny ever finds a way to add a such a feature via one of those mythical firmware updates I'll be tickled pink.

I will say this though- blunt instrument that it is, the optimizer does a solid job at approximating the way Dolby Vision helps to reign in overly bright HDR on many titles, especially in regards to the bevy of eyeball scorchers from the good folks Sony.

When I switched it on last week and compared several scenes between the original Labyrinth UHD and the new Dolby Vision disc the resulting presentations were practically identical. Switched it off again and the difference was pretty significant.

Heh, yeah, pretty much all of the major differences that some people are seeing with the "Dolby Vision grade" (nope) of Labyrinth are down to how their TV maps HDR10.

[mkozlows]

Originally Posted by TravisTylerBlack

What exactly do you mean by "tested against a modern display"?

I mean taking a 2020/2021 LG or Sony OLED TV, leaving the HDR Optimizer on the Blu-ray player off, and letting the TV do its own tone-mapping. Then comparing that result to the HDR Optimizer-on double-tone-mapped version.

(I'm specifically referring to non-projector use cases here, as I mentioned.)

[JackTwist]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Heh, yeah, pretty much all of the major differences that some people are seeing with the "Dolby Vision grade" (nope) of Labyrinth are down to how their TV maps HDR10.

I was one of those who used that word. My deepest apologies and I will delete my account

Despite the incorrect terminology to describe the Dolby Vision layer, that is why I added a disclaimer. It is very likely the bulk of the differences could be due to how the Sony A80J tone maps the HDR10 signal. Since moving to this TV, I haven’t been using the HDR optimizer feature.

[tama]

Originally Posted by JackTwist

I was one of those who used that word. My deepest apologies and I will delete my account

Despite the incorrect terminology to describe the Dolby Vision layer, that is why I added a disclaimer. It is very likely the bulk of the differences could be due to how the Sony A80J tone maps the HDR10 signal. Since moving to this TV, I haven’t been using the HDR optimizer feature.

I have on mine. And even with the Optimizer on the DV presentation show a noticeable difference in how it's being presented as opposed to presented via HDR10.

[Raven777777]

I am in a bind here. So, Crutchfield still sells the older model with the AKM DACs while the newer model contains the ES9038Q2M and ES9026PRO DACs. I know both versions are made to be 'identical' but I am a bit anal when there are 2 of the 'same' products being sold like this. Should I get the older model or the newer model? Does the AKM DAC in the older unit sound better or worse than the ESS DAC in the newer unit, or is it preferential, or does it truly not matter? Thoughts?

[sapiendut]

I have both. They are both as good (on paper the THD of the new one is better) they just sound different and I have no preference. In fact I won’t be able to pin point the differences unless they are being A/B tested.