Panasonic UB820/UB9000 4K UHD Blu-ray player

[grahams76]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

No. If you have a setup & disc that supports both flavours then the Panny players will default to 10+. Why? We don't know. As you say, you'll have to turn off 10+ manually to get DV in those instances.

I’m pretty sure my 820 defaults to DV. Or does this happen just for HDR10+ and not HDR10?

[George.P]

Originally Posted by JB27

Right. It's unfortunate that the player doesn't default to DV when a disc has both. Is there any way to change that without manually turning off HDR10+ for those films?

Originally Posted by Geoff D

No. If you have a setup & disc that supports both flavours then the Panny players will default to 10+. Why? We don't know. As you say, you'll have to turn off 10+ manually to get DV in those instances.

Isn’t Panasonic one of the founders of HDR10+? That would certainly be a good reason for it to default to HDR10+ from their perspective.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by grahams76

I’m pretty sure my 820 defaults to DV. Or does this happen just for HDR10+ and not HDR10?

DV overrides 10. 10+ overrides DV.

[JB27]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

No. If you have a setup & disc that supports both flavours then the Panny players will default to 10+. Why? We don't know. As you say, you'll have to turn off 10+ manually to get DV in those instances.

Fair enough. Luckily discs that support both 10+ and DV are few and far between, so it shouldn't be too much of an issue if I do end up getting a TV that supports both formats. Thanks!

[JWgrayhawk]

Originally Posted by Webmaster1990

So I own a Sony A8H (OLED). I have the Panasonic UB820 connected directly to it. My concern (if I can call it that) is that the tv's HDMI CEC can't seem to probably label the HDMI input of the player. Here is a screenshot

[Show spoiler]Attachment 271272

. Tried manual but not luck.

Any thoughts?

You can edit the name in the settings

[pbz06]

Do any movies even come with HDR10+? I just disabled it...well, I also disabled DV but that's another story.

[pbz06]

Originally Posted by FilmFreakosaurus

DV is better than HDR10+.

On paper or in a spec swinging contest, yes. However 99% of our hardware limitations is still a bottleneck so in most cases the only true advantage DV brings to the table at the moment is dynamic tonemappping. Saying something like 10,000 nits! and 12-bit color! is misleading when we're all still on 10-bit panels and watching on TV's either 800 nits (OLED) or 2,000 nits (LED) peak brightness or far less. That's not even to bring up all of DV's issues with either flickering, lit up bars, and inconsistent performance across various devices and displays even though it's supposed to be "standardized" I'd rather see displays implement more sophisticated internal tonemapping capabilities with the actual HDR10 specification as opposed to relying on a proprietary 3rd party that hides everything.

rant off

[AKORIS]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

DV overrides 10. 10+ overrides DV.

interesting--- I didn't know that. Will have to watch for that in the future...

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by AKORIS

interesting--- I didn't know that. Will have to watch for that in the future...

But it's only if the whole viewing chain supports both formats and they're both present on the disc. Your sig says you has an LG TV, they don't do 10+ IIRC so it won't affect you.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by pbz06

On paper or in a spec swinging contest, yes. However 99% of our hardware limitations is still a bottleneck so in most cases the only true advantage DV brings to the table at the moment is dynamic tonemappping. Saying something like 10,000 nits! and 12-bit color! is misleading when we're all still on 10-bit panels and watching on TV's either 800 nits (OLED) or 2,000 nits (LED) peak brightness or far less. That's not even to bring up all of DV's issues with either flickering, lit up bars, and inconsistent performance across various devices and displays even though it's supposed to be "standardized" I'd rather see displays implement more sophisticated internal tonemapping capabilities with the actual HDR10 specification as opposed to relying on a proprietary 3rd party that hides everything.

rant off

And even the "10,000 nits!" thing is nonsense because all HDR content encoded with Perceptual Quantiser - HDR10, HDR10+ and Dolby Vision - is inside a 10k nit container, it's utter rubbish that only DV can do it. But having 12-bit encoding is still an advantage even on 10-bit displays because of the benefits of oversampling, e.g. Sony TVs operate their processing in 14-bit space and have done for years which is why they're the best around for posterisation, or rather lack thereof, unless it's endemic to the source material. (That's what 12-bit gives you, not more colour but more gradations therein.)

DV FEL has however been a godsend for cleaning up crappy base layer encodes, a safety net was something it was never intended to be (indeed, most people are unaware it even does such a thing) but it's my favourite feature of DV by far. Although if all the encodes were competent then it wouldn't be needed, but what really bakes my noodle is are they so bad in the first place because of the DV FEL authoring packages?

[rroeder]

When I hit the playback info button twice there's a metadata screen w two columns-media and HDMI video out. I'm assuming the media side is what the disc is authored at and the video out side is what is being displayed? I was using a DV disc and the video out side showed no data, is that right??

BTW it played a scene fine(LOTR Two towers EE disc) that my previous Sony's choked and froze on, YES!

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by rroeder

When I hit the playback info button twice there's a metadata screen w two columns-media and HDMI video out. I'm assuming the media side is what the disc is authored at and the video out side is what is being displayed? I was using a DV disc and the video out side showed no data, is that right??

YES because all that metadata you see on the left is just for the HDR10 layer, and when playing in DV this metadata is not being transmitted to the TV. The DV layer carries its own separately mastered packets of dynamic metadata which are not shown.

If you play an HDR10 disc then it will show the same metadata in the right column as it does on the left, though if you use the HDR Optimiser then that will adjust the right hand column.

[bubaglobalj]

Does this player indicate in any way that you are watching "Dolby Vision", I have never seen that mentioned in any way, just curious.

[Geoff D]

Press the info button

[lgans316]

I was comparing Atomic Blonde DV Vs. HDR10 and the DV looked consistently better on all my tellies. No matter how subtle the differences are, 90% of the times DV looks better than vanilla HDR10.

[rroeder]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

YES because all that metadata you see on the left is just for the HDR10 layer, and when playing in DV this metadata is not being transmitted to the TV. The DV layer carries its own separately mastered packets of dynamic metadata which are not shown.

If you play an HDR10 disc then it will show the same metadata in the right column as it does on the left, though if you use the HDR Optimiser then that will adjust the right hand column.

Watched Knives Out last night the metadata screen showed peak brightness 297 nits and avg. 89, thought the movie looked a little dim. I have the optimizer on and using standard setting, med to high LCD for tv type-900F. I did get an audio drop towards the end of the movie when I paused and rewound, had to eject disc and reload, is that something folks are having issues with?

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by lgans316

I was comparing Atomic Blonde DV Vs. HDR10 and the DV looked consistently better on all my tellies. No matter how subtle the differences are, 90% of the times DV looks better than vanilla HDR10.

Well, yeah that’s a no brainer. Dolby Vision will (for the most part) always look more dynamic than regular (without anything done to it) HDR10. This is due to DV having dynamic metadata vs HDR10s static metadata.

However, if one would turn on their TV’s Dynamic Tone Mapping, then HDR10 content would look pretty close to Dolby Vision. Obviously, each TV brand does DTM differently, but overall if DTM is turned on, then the gap between DV and HDR10 is very small to almost nothing.

[panasonicst60]

Originally Posted by PUsokrJosh305

Well, yeah that’s a no brainer. Dolby Vision will (for the most part) always look more dynamic than regular (without anything done to it) HDR10. This is due to DV having dynamic metadata vs HDR10s static metadata.

However, if one would turn on their TV’s Dynamic Tone Mapping, then HDR10 content would look pretty close to Dolby Vision. Obviously, each TV brand does DTM differently, but overall if DTM is turned on, then the gap between DV and HDR10 is very small to almost nothing.

If your DV and hdr10 are both following the eotf correctly they should look very similar to each other. If and when you will see a big difference is when the content is mastered at very high luminance level, in which most new 4k releases are not, then DV tone mapping with be superior(less clipping of highlights). Another difference you will see(most won't) is if there are compression issues on the hdr10 layer then the DV will normally fix/improve it.

I would say in most cases, anyone that is seeing a substantial difference between HDR10 and DV just means that their display is not calibrated or not calibrated correctly. Edit: Or your panel just doesn't get bright enough. Lower end TV's will benefit more from DV

[PUsokrJosh305]

Originally Posted by panasonicst60

If your DV and hdr10 are both following the eotf correctly they should look very similar to each other. If and when you will see a big difference is when the content is mastered at very high luminance level, in which most new 4k releases are not, then DV tone mapping with be superior(less clipping of highlights). Another difference you will see(most won't) is if there are compression issues on the hdr10 layer then the DV will normally fix/improve it.

I would say in most cases, anyone that is seeing a substantial difference between HDR10 and DV just means that their display is not calibrated or not calibrated correctly.

True as that might be, there is still a difference, specifically in the brightness/contrast, between DV and HDR10. DV has an edge because of the dynamic metadata allowing the brightness/contrast changing scene to scene or frame by frame whereas HDR10 stays at 1 single level.

This is why many people have looked, specifically at Disney films that are on Disney +, with DV vs the HDR10 disc and have said or asked," Hey, why is it that the DV stream looks brighter than the HDR10 disc?" Again, that's due to the dynamic metadata vs. the static.

The only solution to this, if one would like to match it up with DV, is to use Dynamic Tone Mapping. Yes, I do agree that if there is a major difference in HDR10 vs. DV that the calibration is off. However, seeing the contrast/brightness difference is normal in a proper calibration. I should know because my LG C9 was professionally calibrated by Robert's crew at Value Electronics and that's what I see. Applying DTM allowed me to matchup as close as possible to the DV picture, whether that be on Disney + or through my Panny 820.

[panasonicst60]

Originally Posted by PUsokrJosh305

True as that might be, there is still a difference, specifically in the brightness/contrast, between DV and HDR10. DV has an edge because of the dynamic metadata allowing the brightness/contrast changing scene to scene or frame by frame whereas HDR10 stays at 1 single level.


This is why many people have looked, specifically at Disney films that are on Disney +, with DV vs the HDR10 disc and have said or asked," Hey, why is it that the DV stream looks brighter than the HDR10 disc?" Again, that's due to the dynamic metadata vs. the static.

The only solution to this, if one would like to match it up with DV, is to use Dynamic Tone Mapping. Yes, I do agree that if there is a major difference in HDR10 vs. DV that the calibration is off. However, seeing the contrast/brightness difference is normal in a proper calibration. I should know because my LG C9 was professionally calibrated by Robert's crew at Value Electronics and that's what I see. Applying DTM allowed me to matchup as close as possible to the DV picture, whether that be on Disney + or through my Panny 820.

Let me elaborate a little bit. There will most likely be difference in the peak brightness between DV and HDR10. For example my HDR10 peaks out at 800 nits, as for my DV is at 750. This will relate to the differences that people see. I also want to point out in a few TVs I know, have broken DV in one way or another (broken as I mean out of spec). Even with calibration, the EOTF can't be fixed in some cases. For example, I did a calibration for a friend and his DV EOTF is slightly too bright at 60-70 percent and slightly too dim at 30-40 percent. Compared to his hdr10 which was track the eotf perfectly. This will translate to the differences that people see.


I also want to point out that calibrating a display fresh out of the box is never a great idea. I like Robert a lot at Value Electronics, but providing services like this is slightly misleading. Panels shift quite a bit when compared to a new panel, say 2000 hrs of use. So at 2000+ hrs your panel will need another calibration done to be considered accurate. As it ages the panel will shift a lot less. However one big benefit that is included with his calibration package include Robert personally checking your particular panel for low light panel uniformity, which is great for OLEDs. Edit: They do break in the panel but not sure for how long. Still nothing beats 2000 + hrs of content.