Panasonic UB820/UB9000 4K UHD Blu-ray player

[rprice54]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

This is not really the kind of test you want to do. Javs' curve are based on 1200 nit material. This title is a 1000 nit title, so the difference between Javs curve and the 1000 nit curve Panny did is probably too small to tell. BUT, you have to remember that Javs did the curve to 1200 but that only works well with 1200 material. Try something that is 200 or 400 nits or something that is 2000 or even 4000. That is where you'll see Panasonic's dynamic tone map work better because it does a different curve for each one. Look at something like Goodfellas, Blade Runner 2049, Dunkirk, Magnificent 7, Batman vs Superman, Mad Max. Movies that are 1000 nit MaxCLL like Disney and Fox titles will all look essentially the same as Javs 1200 nit curve, except the Panny will allow you to fine tune overall brightness on the fly. But the differences may stand out more on other titles.

Plus no more fooling around with LAN cables and trying to figure out how to load curves and play with settings. This is about as plug and play as you can ask for.

My biggest issue so far has been HDR looking too dark- so that's where I focused.
I guess my point from those pics is that you can get similar results from either method for darker scenes- the number one gripe I see from projector owners.

I totally agree the 820 is much more plug and play- for folks that haven't tried uploading curves this would be easier. For folks that are already happy with their curves maybe it's not worth it? It is nice to adjust on the fly, for sure. Just trying to put some data out there for folks, not advocating one over the other.

I have Dunkirk, I don't have any of those other titles in 4k, maybe I have Justice League in 4k, I don't remember. I know that was kind of the point of the 1200nit curve, it covers the vast majority of titles out there.

EDIT: I have wonder woman, supposedly a 4000nit title, I'll watch that final battle again.

[Kris Deering]

You're missing the point, your curve is indeed setup for the vast amount of titles but it only is setup for ONE type of curve. The player automatically adjusts its curve based on the metadata, so it doesn't rely on a single curve.

Wonder Woman is a 1700 nits title, so probably won't look drastically different either.

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by panasonicst60

I noticed that on some movies switching the HDR Optimizer on/off, I see no differences. Yet in others I do. I have the c8 and have it set to OLED in the menu. Is it true that movies mastered to 1000 nits with OLED selected, no tone mapping is added even with hdr optimizer turn on?

Hard to say, if you select OLED for the display type with HDR Optimizer ON, it adjusts all metadata to 1000 nits. So I wouldn't expect there to be much difference at all between off and on with 1000 nit content.

Again, YMMV depending on your display's capabilities and the titles you watch. Standard 1000 nit titles don't benefit nearly as much as diverse titles, especially with displays that actually use the metadata to make decisions on their tone map.

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by COACH10810

Thanks Kris!

This was something I wanted to ask....but figured I had asked you enough questions.

Based on what I have tried, I like it set at 0 or +1.

I am going to try some of those recommended titles you mentioned a few posts back tonight or tomorrow.

Would Patriot's Day fall into that category? The last time I viewed this one was before I had any sort of updated curves.

Patriot's Day is a 1000 nit title based on metadata. I know people complain about it being dark, but the metadata won't help this one. But having the slider will make it easier to lighten up if it bothers you compared to a single Arve curve in a projector.

[DLCPhoto]

Originally Posted by DLCPhoto

I am still interested in knowing if the UB820 (or the future UB9000) will allow subtitles to be shifted, their font, size, or transparency adjusted, etc.

I've read the UB820 manual, and it doesn't appear to support this, but would prefer real-world confirmation one way or the other.

And if they don't, are there any other respected UHD BD players that do support these functions (other than the Oppo)?

Thanks.

Originally Posted by edwinvs

The UB824 allows subtitles to be shifted and their transparancy changed. Font and size are fixed.

Originally Posted by DLCPhoto

Interesting. Thanks for the reply.

Apparently the UB824 is the European model, correct?

Does this work the same with the USA's UB820? Anybody know?

I'm still quite interested in the answer here - does the USA's UB820 allow shifting (and transparency adjustment) of subtitles?

I find it interesting that apparently the European UB824 reportedly does allow this, despite it not being mentioned in the User Manual. That gives some hope of it being true for the UB820 as well.

If it does, this player will have even greater interest to me.

Would greatly appreciate somebody checking on this.

Thanks.

[evan201]

Loving this thing.

Running HDR 4k 24p 12bit 4:2:2

Epson 5040ub on High Lamp with Dynamic Range signal to "Auto." (Auto-Bright blows it out and ruins colors)
Optimizer On
Dynamic Range slider to +8
Color Adjustment in 820 +12

Ready Player One looks outstanding with these settings. Really happy with it.

[stevegee]

Originally Posted by rprice54

My biggest issue so far has been HDR looking too dark- so that's where I focused.
I guess my point from those pics is that you can get similar results from either method for darker scenes- the number one gripe I see from projector owners.

I totally agree the 820 is much more plug and play- for folks that haven't tried uploading curves this would be easier. For folks that are already happy with their curves maybe it's not worth it? It is nice to adjust on the fly, for sure. Just trying to put some data out there for folks, not advocating one over the other.

I have Dunkirk, I don't have any of those other titles in 4k, maybe I have Justice League in 4k, I don't remember. I know that was kind of the point of the 1200nit curve, it covers the vast majority of titles out there.

EDIT: I have wonder woman, supposedly a 4000nit title, I'll watch that final battle again.

I have the Rs400 projector. Using the Panny UB200 I get the extra brightness in hdr I need through the vibrance slider.

Seems like, from what I have been reading, that this new and pricey tone mapping feature just helps blownout detail somewhat in the high end - correct?

[COACH10810]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

Patriot's Day is a 1000 nit title based on metadata. I know people complain about it being dark, but the metadata won't help this one. But having the slider will make it easier to lighten up if it bothers you compared to a single Arve curve in a projector.

Thanks Kris.
I might give this another go just to see if the high lamp curve I have will help it at all. Also I might give it a go using the SDR2020 mode because I am not sure if I still had that engaged last time or not..

[seanbldvlfn24]

Kris,

Do you have any settings to start out for OLED owners? I have LG 65E6P which is 640 nits peak brightness. Where should I start with the dynamic range slider? Thanks for all the information you've posted.

[Dave___B]

One thing I noticed and can maybe confirm: titles like Wonder Woman, Blade Runner or Jumanji (and most Netflix HDR content) do benefit from the HDR Optimizer and gain some "brightness" level by switching it "On" (with no need to adjust the Dynamic Range slider)

Other titles are not affected at all, they just stay as dark as when the option is switched "off".
In thoses cases (most of them) I turn up the Dynamic Range adjustment to brighten them up (+5/6 with Optimizer "On")

So...on an Oled: I guess 4000 nits titles don't need the Dynamic Range Adjustment and are "corrected" by the Optimizer, and 1000 nits content do need that extra help ?

[elwaylite]

I think you are correct, but depending on the LG model too. Where my Sonys just clip whatever they cant show, the LG's try and resolve it. I am just going to leave it on and not adjust anything further because my Sony will tone map test bars to 1000 nits, so that way when I watch a 4000 nit disc, maybe I retain more highlight detail.

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by seanbldvlfn24

Kris,

Do you have any settings to start out for OLED owners? I have LG 65E6P which is 640 nits peak brightness. Where should I start with the dynamic range slider? Thanks for all the information you've posted.

Just select OLED in the display type and turn the Optimizer on. The slider doesn't correspond to a brightness with that type of output (only for SDR2020), so you adjust to taste. I have a friend who has been testing it with multiple flat panels and has been really impressed with how much better it does with titles that clearly clipped before (like Pan and BvS).

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by Dave___B

One thing I noticed and can maybe confirm: titles like Wonder Woman, Blade Runner or Jumanji (and most Netflix HDR content) do benefit from the HDR Optimizer and gain some "brightness" level by switching it "On" (with no need to adjust the Dynamic Range slider)

Other titles are not affected at all, they just stay as dark as when the option is switched "off".
In thoses cases (most of them) I turn up the Dynamic Range adjustment to brighten them up (+5/6 with Optimizer "On")

So...on an Oled: I guess 4000 nits titles don't need the Dynamic Range Adjustment and are "corrected" by the Optimizer, and 1000 nits content do need that extra help ?

Those titles aren't 4000 nit titles, that is only the MaxDML. Blade Runner is around 200, Wonder Woman is 1700 and Jumanji is 2000 nits. With an OLED you may still be too dim at 0 on the slider overall as the curve is setup for 1000 nits and most OLEDs are closer to 700, so you should have to bump it up a bit (as you've already found).

[ronboster]

Thanks Kris for all the input and follow answers. I've been playing around with different settings on my JVC/820 combo (without AVS curves) and am really pleased with the results.

[curlyjive]

I need to make a quick lookup spreadsheet of titles I have and what I like their dynamic range adjustment slider set to

[Dave___B]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

Those titles aren't 4000 nit titles, that is only the MaxDML. Blade Runner is around 200, Wonder Woman is 1700 and Jumanji is 2000 nits. With an OLED you may still be too dim at 0 on the slider overall as the curve is setup for 1000 nits and most OLEDs are closer to 700, so you should have to bump it up a bit (as you've already found).

That's what I noticed ! +3 or +4 depending on the source!

I think I'n nearly done tuning that baby and will soon finally be able to enjoy it for what it is ! Watched Ready Player one on it, and my god was it Glorious.

Thanks Kris for your answers, and every members of that forum. That thread has been so helpful

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by curlyjive

I need to make a quick lookup spreadsheet of titles I have and what I like their dynamic range adjustment slider set to

It shouldn't change much since most titles hover around 1000 nits. I find that I rarely have to change the values in my setup, but I also use a Radiance Pro for my setup. It is nice as it has different values for higher nit titles vs lower nit titles, so my multiplier changes based on the nit value without me having to mess with it (set it once and it keeps it there).

At some point I hope that we'll see frame by frame tone mapping, but we may have some ways to go for that feature in players or processors.

[MassiveG]

Noob question, but...

Would the UB9000 give a better picture than my Oppo 203?
With the HCX video processor and what not?

I watch on an LG OLED and between video quality being very important to me and my Oppo needing repairs, I'm thinking more and more about the UB9000.

[elwaylite]

IMO, the main advantage is the HDR Optimizer and HDR to SDR2020, if you intend on using either.

[curlyjive]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

It shouldn't change much since most titles hover around 1000 nits. I find that I rarely have to change the values in my setup, but I also use a Radiance Pro for my setup. It is nice as it has different values for higher nit titles vs lower nit titles, so my multiplier changes based on the nit value without me having to mess with it (set it once and it keeps it there).

At some point I hope that we'll see frame by frame tone mapping, but we may have some ways to go for that feature in players or processors.

Frame by frame would be nice. I just wonder if there will be much more effort on developing displays with higher nit capability vs. time spent developing new tone mapping algorithms. I might be wrong, but for SDR tone mapping like the 820 has, I don't know if we'll see anything better for projector users in the future.

For me it seems titles either need to be at 0/+1 or +3/+4. If a title doesn't look good within that range, the Blu Ray looks better.