Vudu Launches 4K Dolby Vision, Dolby Atmos Video Streams

[BIslander]

Vizio says it's new UHD Reference sets with Dolby Vision will output Dolby Atmos tracks without a Roku 4:
uploadfromtaptalk1451846488888.jpg
The top part of that info graphic shows another configuration with a Roku 4.

[Mr. Joshua]

Originally Posted by BIslander

Vizio says it's new UHD Reference sets with Dolby Vision will output Dolby Atmos tracks without a Roku 4:
Attachment 131736
The top part of that info graphic shows another configuration with a Roku 4.

So the Vizio must have an HDMI output you can run to receiver or sound bar. Yamaha's new sound bar YSP-5600 will handle Dolby Atmos. My problem is I don't like Vizio, and I want LG OLED to have this capability...

[BIslander]

I haven't seen anything to indicate the Vizio sets have an HDMI output beyond the ARC connection. Hence my question.

EDIT: the online tech specs for both of the soon to be released Vizio Dolby Vision Reference sets show two audio outputs - analog and digital S/PDIF. No user manuals are posted yet.

[BIslander]

^ UPDATE: I emailed Vizio support to ask whether the new sets can output Dolby Atmos on their own and they said No:

I had a chance to look at our tech specs as well, and it confirms that the audio outs are limited to a spdif and an analog audio out. You would need a secondary device to get the audio output you are looking for.

[schan1269]

Originally Posted by BIslander

^ UPDATE: I emailed Vizio support to ask whether the new sets can output Dolby Atmos on their own and they said No:

For the umpteenth time...

1. The player/source has absolutely nothing, at all, and will never, at all, have anything whatsoever to do with Atmos.

2. Atmos rides on either DD+ or D-THD.

3. DD+ is carried by Toslink/optical/coax/ARC.

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by schan1269

For the umpteenth time...

1. The player/source has absolutely nothing, at all, and will never, at all, have anything whatsoever to do with Atmos.

Not sure what you mean here. Doesn't the source have to have a Dolby Atmos encoded track?

2. Atmos rides on either DD+ or D-THD.

3. DD+ is carried by Toslink/optical/coax/ARC.

The Dolby Digital Plus Technical Paper says S/PDIF is limited to Dolby Digital, that HDMI 1.3 is required for DD+ transmission. That paper dates back to 2008. Has the technical spec changed since then? I've never seen documentation of such a change.

The TV manuals I've checked all say the sets send DD 5.1 instead of Plus over their digital outputs.

[schan1269]

Originally Posted by BIslander

Not sure what you mean here. Doesn't the source have to have a Dolby Atmos encoded track?
The Dolby Digital Plus Technical Paper says S/PDIF is limited to Dolby Digital, that HDMI 1.3 is required for DD+ transmission. That paper dates back to 2008. Has the technical spec changed since then? I've never seen documentation of such a change.

The TV manuals I've checked all say the sets send DD 5.1 instead of Plus over their digital outputs.

DD+ didn't exist in 2008.

Again...

DD+ is carried by SP/DIF via optical/toslink/coax/ARC.

Dolby Atmos can be carried on DD+.

If your source device isn't DD+ 5.1 compatible...

That isn't a DD+/Atmos problem.

That is a "you bought incompatible equipment" problem.

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by schan1269

DD+ didn't exist in 2008.

Again...

DD+ is carried by SP/DIF via optical/toslink/coax/ARC.

Dolby Atmos can be carried on DD+.

If your source device isn't DD+ 5.1 compatible...

That isn't a DD+/Atmos problem.

That is a "you bought incompatible equipment" problem.

Wrong, DD+ can't be carried by SPDIF at all, it will revert back to standard Dolby Digital....

[BIslander]

Originally Posted by schan1269

DD+ didn't exist in 2008.

Clearly incorrect. Plus was the primary codec used on HD-DVD from 2006 until the format died in 2008.

Again...

DD+ is carried by SP/DIF via optical/toslink/coax/ARC.

Says who, besides you? Not according to Dolby. It's hard to take you seriously given your first statement.

Dolby Atmos can be carried on DD+.

If your source device isn't DD+ 5.1 compatible...

That isn't a DD+/Atmos problem.

That is a "you bought incompatible equipment" problem.

Agreed, but not what this thread is about.

[BIslander]

The bandwidth may be there. But if the protocol being used doesn't support the codec, then bandwidth doesn't matter.

As for substituting DD for DD+, that happens at the source device, not in the receiver, the same way playback devices send DD 5.1 and DTS instead of lossless over S/PDIF connections.

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by BIslander

The bandwidth may be there. But if the protocol being used doesn't support the codec, then bandwidth doesn't matter.

As for substituting DD for DD+, that happens at the source device, not in the receiver, the same way playback devices send DD 5.1 and DTS instead of lossless over S/PDIF connections.

Correct, my mistake it's the source device that converts to standard DD

Wikipedia confirms the theoretical ability to use DD+ via S/PDIF:

IEC 61937-3: defines how to transmit Dolby Digital (AC-3) and Dolby Digital Plus (E-AC-3) bitstreams via an IEC 60958/61937 (S/PDIF) interface. However, the S/PDIF interface has insufficient bandwidth to transport Dolby Digital Plus (E-AC-3) bitstreams at the 3.0Mbit/s datarate specified by HD DVD; lower datarates are possible.

[BIslander]

Yes, I don't doubt that optical has the bandwidth for lower bitrate DD+. But, let's say a player sends such an encode over that connection, what would happen with any receiver that can't process DD+?

The HDMI handshake makes sure the input and output devices negotiate a connection they both support. A one way transmission like optical can't do that. So, someone with older legacy equipment would get no sound when the source is lower bitrate DD+. That doesn't seem like a good consumer interface.

TVs have never had optical or digital coax inputs. HDMI has been the only connection for digital audio. HDMI makes connecting things plug and play since the TV tells the source devices what to send. If you set a BD player to bitstream and play a dts-MA track, which no TV can process, the set will override the player bitstream setting and tell it to send stereo PCM, the best the set can handle. The end user always gets sound and doesn't have to change any audio settings.

[MisterXDTV]

Originally Posted by BIslander

Yes, I don't doubt that optical has the bandwidth for lower bitrate DD+. But, let's say a player sends such an encode over that connection, what would happen with any receiver that can't process DD+?

The HDMI handshake makes sure the input and output devices negotiate a connection they both support. A one way transmission like optical can't do that. So, someone with older legacy equipment would get no sound when the source is lower bitrate DD+. That doesn't seem like a good consumer interface.

TVs have never had optical or digital coax inputs. HDMI had been the only source of digital audio. HDMI makes connecting things plug and play since the TV tells the source devices what to send. If you set a BD player to bitstream and play a dts-MA track, which no TV can process, the set will override ask the player settings and the BD output will be stereo PCM, the best the set can handle. The end user always gets sound and doesn't have to change any audio settings.

Right, and that's the reason why it's purely theoretical. Blu-ray players don't output DD+ via S/PDIF under any circumstance

When I use Netflix with my BDP 4500 (via coax), it will output standard Dolby Digital 5.1 (@640 kbits) that is transparent compared to the original low-bitrate DD+ Netflix uses...

[Mr. Joshua]

Originally Posted by HDTV1080P

While it’s awesome that VUDU is offering Dolby Vision 4K streams with Dolby Atmos soundtracks, keep in mind that these streaming Dolby Atmos soundtracks are lossy and not lossless. VUDU core audio for these Dolby ATMOS titles use lossy 7.1 Dolby Digital Plus, then Dolby ATMOS is added to the substream. The advantage of the Blu-ray Dolby ATMOS titles is that the core audio track is lossless 7.1 Dolby TrueHD before the Dolby ATMOS substream is added.

I hope that one day VUDU and Netflix would offer lossless audio tracks that are bit for bit exactly the same as the studio master. More cities are rolling out 100Gbps, 10Gbps, and 1Gbps Internet around the United States. There is plenty of bandwidth for streaming high bit rate 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray images with lossless audio.

http://www.twice.com/news/tv/vudu-launches-dolby-vision-dolby-atmos-video-streams/59490

Regardless of one’s current Internet speed, companies like Kaleidescape are offering both 1080P and 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray disc downloads with lossless audio that is bit for bit exactly the same as the studio master soundtrack. Last time I checked Blu-ray image downloads are only available for purchase to a large several TB hard drive server. I hope that in the future the option to rent a Blu-ray image for download might become a reality (Say goodbye to REDBOX and Netflix Blu-ray disc rentals if that happens). As hard drive servers become cheaper and as Internet speeds increase, companies like Kaleidescape should become more popular for those consumers that demand the best in picture and sound quality (The only real difference is that one is watching their Blu-ray movies from a hard drive instead of a optical disc, the picture and sound quality is exactly the same).

http://www.kaleidescape.com/

I just looked for Man of Steel and the Dolby Vision version doesn't show. I did a search and all that comes up is the regular version. It was up there a week or two ago...

[Mr. Joshua]

Found MoS UHD on VUDU online but not on my TV. Anyways, VUDU needs a tab that shows UHD titles only...

[Stanton]

Originally Posted by Mr. Joshua

Found MoS UHD on VUDU online but not on my TV. Anyways, VUDU needs a tab that shows UHD titles only...

Exactly...and until they add this to the (TV) app, we have to assume they aren't yet supporting that particular TV/device/HDR10

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by Mr. Joshua

Found MoS UHD on VUDU online but not on my TV. Anyways, VUDU needs a tab that shows UHD titles only...

They do in a roundabout way. Just go to their main page and VUDU UHD is under collections. It has all the movies in there.

[Adam_ME]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

They do in a roundabout way. Just go to their main page and VUDU UHD is under collections. It has all the movies in there.

Yep. And movies that are available in UHD also have a little "UHD" banner on them. Right now there are 27 titles, all from WB.

[ray0414]

Originally Posted by Mr. Joshua

Found MoS UHD on VUDU online but not on my TV. Anyways, VUDU needs a tab that shows UHD titles only...

Vudu 4k is only available on vizio tvs and the roku 4 for right now. Some sort of contract. So I won't get vudu 4k from your tv app unless it's a vizio.

[bruceames]

How much are their 4k movies? (upgrade price too).