HDR Discussion Thread

[Mark E. Desade]

Have a UHD/HDR questions. My 4K TV does NOT have HDR. If there is a UHD disc "Presented in HDR10+", will my 4k player/4k TV setup be able to play it? Thanks in advance. Sorry if asking in wrong thread.

[Lee A Stewart]

UHD Tracker Service Reveals Interesting Trends

The Ultra HD Forum has spent several years developing a UHD tracking service that they recently discussed in a wide-ranging webinar and panel discussion produced by the DVB (Digital Video Broadcast) organization. The database tracks over 150 commercial UHD service offerings with 21 fields of data, although not all are visible to the public on their web site. There are many interesting ways to slice the data but one of my first revelations was that perhaps half of these UHD service still broadcast in standard dynamic range and a BT.709 color gamut – so not an HDR experience, just one with more resolution.

https://displaydaily.com/article/dis...resting-trends

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by Mark E. Desade

Have a UHD/HDR questions. My 4K TV does NOT have HDR. If there is a UHD disc "Presented in HDR10+", will my 4k player/4k TV setup be able to play it? Thanks in advance. Sorry if asking in wrong thread.

HDR10+ is a typical HDR10 disk with some DYNAMIC metadata included with the content data. So I would say you’re in the same situation as any other HDR disc, you would need your 4K player to downcovert to SDR rec 2020. This should happen with most 4K players on its own as it will recognize the display has no HDR capability. Sorry.

[Mark E. Desade]

Originally Posted by gkolb

HDR10+ is a typical HDR10 disk with some DYNAMIC metadata included with the content data. So I would say you’re in the same situation as any other HDR disc, you would need your 4K player to downcovert to SDR rec 2020. This should happen with most 4K players on its own as it will recognize the display has no HDR capability. Sorry.

I'm sorry, so what you're saying is it will (should) play the disc but it will downconvert it to SDR? So, it will look no different than Blu-ray quality then?

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by Lee A Stewart

UHD Tracker Service Reveals Interesting Trends



https://displaydaily.com/article/dis...resting-trends

Yep. Sky in the UK went 4K a while ago but have no plans to go HDR yet.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob

I personally would like to know what is lost in tonal range, when what was color graded at full range PQ is encoded at YCbCr 4:4:4 lossless.

Because Im currently seeing way more color and white detail compared to YCbCr. Maybe its time for YCbCr to be put to bed.

Yes but you're still watching YCbCr-encoded content, just with this magick RGB conversion that your TV seems to like so much more than YCbCr.

[gkolb]

Originally Posted by Mark E. Desade

I'm sorry, so what you're saying is it will (should) play the disc but it will downconvert it to SDR? So, it will look no different than Blu-ray quality then?

Your display may be capable of a wider color gamut then good old HD bluray which is rec 709 (may be refered to as BT 709 by some). UHD uses Rec 2020 which carries a wider color palette (more color variations in-between the ones you get from HD). So you might get richer looking colors, without boosting like vivid would do.

Did you mention which 4K player you have?

[Mark E. Desade]

^ LG-UP870 & Vizio E43-F1.

My main concern is that the (limited edition) disc will simply play on my current setup. If it looks better than BD now, so much the better. When I (eventually) upgrade my TV, I can appreciate all the format has to offer then.

I currently have 1 UHD disc and it plays fine, but said disc doesn't feature HDR or Dolby Vision.

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yep. Sky in the UK went 4K a while ago but have no plans to go HDR yet.

Actually this is out of date info. After saying "end of 2020 the earliest" recently, they suddenly did it last week.

They did a "soft launch" of HDR last week, for downloads from some (but not all) of their boxes, yet still no broadcasts at all, and still no HDR channels in the TV guide, starting on the 27th of May.

https://www.forbes.com/sites/johnarc...heres-a-catch/

On the other hand, it's been such a shambles - for many years - I could also say you are correct, because it's nothing like anything that could have been "planned". It's just a complete mess.

If a broadcaster just starts adding HDR downloads to one small corner of their system, I don't think they should be allowed to say they've "launched HDR". They are just doing less than the streaming services have been doing for almost five full years! So I think that unless a broadcaster actually broadcasts (and not merely streams or downloads) HDR, which is what we were told the 5 years delay was for, it's doesn't count IMHO. And even the BBC hasn't done any HDR broadcasts yet, they've only done streams and downloads so far.

[Geoff D]

Well, yeah, that's what I was referring to given the context of Lee's article re: broadcast HDR. Still nada from Sky in the UK. I mean, we could say that the BBC have gone HDR off the basis of a few trials on iplayer, but for off-air broadcast it still means **** all.

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

....It's just a complete mess.

you’d never know it from all the back-slapping (74 comments) - https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-c...cent-activity/

nothing beats the entertainment business for online exercises in self-congratulation. What happened to the days when people just went about doing their job quietly with little or no fanfare because they were secure in the knowledge that what they do/or had accomplished was of significance.

[Penton-Man]

“I figured I better ask here than in a consumer forum.” – Why do you figure that?
https://liftgammagain.com/forum/inde...e-setup.14572/

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

the entertainment business

https://www.theverge.com/2020/6/3/21...ta-coronavirus

[BrownianMotion]

Good for the CTA. Hopefully we get live audience back in the stands for sporting events by then, too.

[bhampton]

If this thread is for HDR discussion, I have a question...

I use a projector. I kind of think it looks better when I convert HDR to SDR.

What would people who discuss HDR think of early 4K projector HDR vs SDR ?

So far my experience is
Pro - SDR tends to look better often, I understand SDR calibration.
Con - most of what I watch was encoded in HDR so a conversion happens and I try to avoid that sort of thing.



-Brian

[Penton-Man]

^
sold my front projector longtime ago, Kris D. or perhaps Wendell B., both of whom occasionally check-in here are your men for answers

p.s.
if your avatar is a promotion of white pointers, never dove with them, but I’ve heard good things about this outfit - https://horizoncharters.com/guadalup...-white-sharks/

[DisplayCalNoob]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Yes but you're still watching YCbCr-encoded content, just with this magick RGB conversion that your TV seems to like so much more than YCbCr.

HDR10 under performs with the UHD Bluray player set to RGB color space, while DV looks great. So what is DV or the LG UP970 doing that DV works and HDR10 doesn't.

I understand and have always understood what the content encode color space is. I should be seeing crushed blacks, crushed shadow detail. Nevermind, Stacey will provide an explanation or suggest a test.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by DisplayCalNoob

HDR10 under performs with the UHD Bluray player set to RGB color space, while DV looks great. So what is DV or the LG UP970 doing that DV works and HDR10 doesn't.

I understand and have always understood what the content encode color space is. I should be seeing crushed blacks, crushed shadow detail. Nevermind, Stacey will provide an explanation or suggest a test.

I always play around with the RGB settings whenever someone chimes in and says that it transforms their viewing experience, and it never does a damned thing on the ZD9. HDR10 looks exactly the same, DV looks exactly the same.

[mrtickleuk]

Originally Posted by Geoff D

Well, yeah, that's what I was referring to given the context of Lee's article re: broadcast HDR. Still nada from Sky in the UK. I mean, we could say that the BBC have gone HDR off the basis of a few trials on iplayer, but for off-air broadcast it still means **** all.

Fair enough, I must have misunderstood your "go HDR". I certainly agree, and it annoys me a lot that with zero broadcasts they are crowing that they've launched HDR.

The latest is that Sky are sending the exact same BT.2020 HLG graded streams to both SDR and HDR customers. The non-HDR-capable boxes are outputting this stream to the TV falsely flagged as BT.709 SDR and not BT.2020 HLG. And when this is questioned, all the Sky sycophants on their forums defend it and say it's all fine! That back-slapping on LinkedIn is a disgrace.

[Geoff D]

Originally Posted by mrtickleuk

Fair enough, I must have misunderstood your "go HDR". I certainly agree, and it annoys me a lot that with zero broadcasts they are crowing that they've launched HDR.

The latest is that Sky are sending the exact same BT.2020 HLG graded streams to both SDR and HDR customers. The non-HDR-capable boxes are outputting this stream to the TV falsely flagged as BT.709 SDR and not BT.2020 HLG. And when this is questioned, all the Sky sycophants on their forums defend it and say it's all fine! That back-slapping on LinkedIn is a disgrace.

I thought the whole point of HLG was exactly that's it's backwards compatible in this way, that a non-HDR piece of equipment will just 'see it' as SDR? Or am I missing something here?