"Club Penton" - Ask questions to Hollywood insider "Penton-Man"

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

Penton, I have been trying to send you the $2 I owe, but I must have misplaced your address.

http://www.hearstcastle.org/
Is your calibration disc shipping yet?

[Stacey Spears]

The disc is shipping now. We quickly put a website in place this week. http://www.spearsandmunsil.com/

As time goes by, we will publish technical information on the site that will cover each pattern in detail.

[Anthony P]

Bobby, why does it matter whether or not the frames are interdependent? They're always going to be decoded in the same manner, whether start-frames or sub-frames. By the time you see them as screengrabs, they're reconstructed.

easy, you need to understand how they work, you have I frames, P frames, and B frames
for people that might not know
I: is the key frame and supposedly represents each and every pixel in the image all of them from the top right most to the bottom left most pixel
P: does not represent the whole picture it records the "differences" from the previous frame, in every film most consecutive frames (unless there is a cut in the scene) will be mostly similar to the previous one. Let's say it is a close up of someone talking, the background is 100% the same even the persons face will be mostly the same but his lips, eyes and some wrinkles will be different.
B: is like P but is two way

Now since I frames need to represent 1080x1920 pixels there is no way it can be done on BD or anything else that compresses and has a much lower bandwidth then what it would take for true 1080p, so what codecs do is the I frame becomes way more compressed and less detailed, and then the following P/B don't only record the changes but also fill in the missing detail.

The P and B frames build on themselves and the original I frame (and next I frame for B). So each consecutive none I frame builds on the previous frame. Since they don't describe 100% of the image errors (rounding errors) can and do happen (which eventually can be seen as jumps when the next I frame comes in and corrects them).

so if someone captures an i frame they will end up with the least detailed part of the film, if they capture a P or B it can have errors.


the reason it works is because the mind / visual system is extremely good at rejecting information it does not like. Now with screen grabs not only do you interfere with the processing (and more likely to have P/B issues) but you also interfere with how vision works

[Penton-Man]

Originally Posted by Oliver K

Screencaps that I saw that looked great, as imperfect as they may be, so far always came from a Blu-Ray that looked as good or better.

So as long as the actual viewing experience matches or exceeds what can be seen in screencaps I see no reason not to be very happy when seeing great screencaps.

Hey Oliver,
Since you follow the *screenshot* threads over at *science* so avidly, could you please PM me the next time the screenshot king posts screen grabs of a Warner Blu-ray or a Warner DVD in those comparison thread thingees - which would imply permission to do so by the owners who host that forum.

I’m interested to know when he and the owners over there at AVS have grown a pair of cajones. - Purely for research purposes.

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Anthony P

so if someone captures an i frame they will end up with the least detailed part of the film, if they capture a P or B it can have errors.

Not if they capture it decoded from the output of a decoder/player.

[Jeff Kleist]

Not if they capture it decoded from the output of a decoder/player.

Yes, even so. In fact my pioneer dvd player had a pause setting specifically so you could set your preferred kind of stop frame

[horseflesh]

Hey Penton baby!
Do you ever check this out....
https://forum.blu-ray.com/misc.php?do=whoposted&t=31882

I feel a little bit specail as the 4th highest "normal person" (non-insider) poster

Penton-Man 1,811
WickyWoo 292
Jeff Kleist 232
Maxpower1987 181
Rob Tomlin 154
Doctorossi 142
dialog_gvf 138
horseflesh 122
Bobby Henderson 120
Alan Gordon 115
HeavyHitter 106
PeterTHX 102
Esox50 96


Ah what the hell, i'm a little bit delerious on the Guinness after Ireland winning the Six Nations championshp today (rugby) and first Grand Slam since 1948!!!

[Eastkhan]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Good to hear (i.e. "last post) , final answer.

No, you don’t understand. You’re getting too caught up in the conventional definitions of film grain and digital noise.
Well-lit digital capture that goes to digital exhibition will generally give a super clean ‘look’ (think a typical NFL football game on Sunday afternoon). If however, you do a film out of the digital files, the grain in the release prints themselves portrays itself as random ‘noise’ to a human’s brain (which is not a bad thing, in moderation) as well as serving its primary function as a carrier of image detail.

In regards to Ghandi and The Professionals – no.

Now I get it. Thank you so much.

[Eastkhan]

Originally Posted by Stacey Spears

The disc is shipping now. We quickly put a website in place this week. http://www.spearsandmunsil.com/

As time goes by, we will publish technical information on the site that will cover each pattern in detail.

I'd really like to buy it though, its only available at Oppo Store in Amazon (which like every marketplace seller doesnt accept Turkish orders ).

Is it ever going to be available in Amazon.com (not marketplace) & is it region-coded?

No pro isf calibration here, no access to calibration discs, everybody here buys their HDTVs only to watch Turkish & Premiere League in HD & nothing else...I mean I watch soccer just as much but having no home cinema culture/enthusiasts here is just sad, wonder how many BDs have been sold here in 2008

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Yes, even so. In fact my pioneer dvd player had a pause setting specifically so you could set your preferred kind of stop frame

Wow. How did I manage to avoid learning this about video codecs until now?

[Doctorossi]

Originally Posted by Eastkhan

No pro isf calibration here, no access to calibration discs, everybody here buys their HDTVs only to watch Turkish & Premiere League in HD & nothing else...I mean I watch soccer just as much but having no home cinema culture/enthusiasts here is just sad, wonder how many BDs have been sold here in 2008

Hey, that's an improvement as far as I can see! When I was in Istanbul (2004), I couldn't even find Turkish lower-league results on the Web, so the idea of Turkish football in HD sounds like a fantasy.

[PeterTHX]

Twelfth place?

I don't know if that's good or bad

[PeterTHX]

Originally Posted by Jeff Kleist

Yes, even so. In fact my pioneer dvd player had a pause setting specifically so you could set your preferred kind of stop frame

Is that the "video/film frame" pause function that some players had?

I usually set mine to "auto".

[sharkshark]

Originally Posted by Penton-Man

Hey Oliver,
Since you follow the *screenshot* threads over at *science* so avidly, could you please PM me the next time the screenshot king posts screen grabs of a Warner Blu-ray or a Warner DVD in those comparison thread thingees - which would imply permission to do so by the owners who host that forum.

I’m interested to know when he and the owners over there at AVS have grown a pair of cajones. - Purely for research purposes.

penton, you should go visit yourself... It's free!




oh, I hate sometimes that there's a necessity for emoticons when trying to be droll, so I'm avoiding one here. Oh, crap, now I'm explaining a joke. Sigh...

[Jeff Kleist]

I think the best way to put the pause thing for screenshots, is that lossy codecs are designed around keeping things good to go in motion

[quote]Is that the "video/film frame" pause function that some players had?

I usually set mine to "auto"./quote]

Yes, I believe so.

[Kris Deering]

Originally Posted by Eastkhan

I'd really like to buy it though, its only available at Oppo Store in Amazon (which like every marketplace seller doesnt accept Turkish orders ).

Is it ever going to be available in Amazon.com (not marketplace) & is it region-coded?

No pro isf calibration here, no access to calibration discs, everybody here buys their HDTVs only to watch Turkish & Premiere League in HD & nothing else...I mean I watch soccer just as much but having no home cinema culture/enthusiasts here is just sad, wonder how many BDs have been sold here in 2008

Hate to point to the competition but you can do overseas orders through Amazon.com for the disc. Had to plug it for Stacey guys

http://www.spearsandmunsil.com/

Click the "Buy Now" button to link to Amazon.

[Doctorossi]

So political around here...

[Jeff Kleist]

I don't see why Stacey shouldn't be getting ALL the money from his hard work

[Eastkhan]

Originally Posted by Doctorossi

Hey, that's an improvement as far as I can see! When I was in Istanbul (2004), I couldn't even find Turkish lower-league results on the Web, so the idea of Turkish football in HD sounds like a fantasy.

even second league (now titled 1. league and the main one "Super League") has their own big sponsors and their own broadcasting channel nowadays (not in HD though).

just saw your avatar

[Eastkhan]

Originally Posted by Kris Deering

Hate to point to the competition but you can do overseas orders through Amazon.com for the disc. Had to plug it for Stacey guys

http://www.spearsandmunsil.com/

Click the "Buy Now" button to link to Amazon.

Thank you but Amazon dont have it in their stocks as of yet, its only available in marketplace through OppoStore, which might claim to send everywhere but Amazon marketplace's policy would limit purchases from Turkey, Austria etc.
Its not like buying BDs directly from Amazon.

I hope it gets available soon in actual Amazon store, or I'll try order directly from OppoDigital.